Why Iran-Pakistan Gas Pipeline is Important

[BHarwana]

Bingo. A coin has two sides. The tragedy is Pakistan always gets cheated. We get the brotherhood with restrictions but KSA is free to do what it wants. Trade and shower $ billions in remittances to our enemies. That is 'just business'. Of course it's not "just business" if we want to import gas from Iran.

It is not KSA who is at fault if we blame KSA we are wrong. It is us who are not working for our own benefit. You cannot clap with one hand you need both hands. The day we set our own priorities right is the day every thing will be fine for us.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

It is not KSA who is at fault if we blame KSA we are wrong. It is us who are not working for our own benefit. You cannot clap with one hand you need both hands. The day we set our own priorities right is the day every thing will be fine for us.

Of course you are right. As long as we understand that KSA is like any other country looking out for it's own interests. Bottom line is so should Pakistan. Our hands should not be tied by any consideration then what our interests are. And Iranian gas is in our interest. Notwithstanding American and Saudi being opposed to that idea.

I think Pakistani's have difficulty understanding and even more accepting the blunt reality that Saudia Arabia along with Israel are two manifestations of America in Middle East. And that places KSA at odds fudamentally with Pakistan's strategic interests.

This reason for this refusal to see things as they are which impinges on Pakistan's self interest is emotional, religious and to a degree Saudi purchase with Pakistani elite. But if we look at Pakistan's interest just as Saudi's do for their own interests Pakistan's policy is badly misplaced.

 

[BHarwana]

Of course you are right. As long as we understand that KSA is like any other country looking out for it's own interests. Bottom line is so should Pakistan. Our hands should not be tied by any consideration then what our interests are. And Iranian gas is in our interest. Notwithstanding American and Saudi being opposed to that idea.

I think Pakistani's have difficulty understanding and even more accepting the blunt reality that Saudia Arabia along with Israel are two manifestations of America in Middle East. And that places KSA at odds fudamentally with Pakistan's strategic interests.

This reason for this refusal to see things as they are which impinges on Pakistan's self interest is emotional, religious and to a degree Saudi purchase with Pakistani elite. But if we look at Pakistan's interest just as Saudi's do for their own interests Pakistan's policy is badly misplaced.

Just one question. Why are Arabs investing in India so much?
Because India buys oil from Iran. Why are we being neglected? Because we don't buy it.
We have no leverage over them. We thought they would respect brother good but they are not. There was a time when they respected brotherhood but those people are long gone.

My eyes are desperate for this type of photograph in today's date and time.

This was an image of equality. It was because of this equality that Pakistan was darling of the west.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

There was a time when they respected brotherhood but those people are long gone.

No, no my friend you are badly mistaken. Human nature has not changed. The reason they respected was simple. Think of 1970. Saudi's had just about exchanged their camels for cars. But they did not know how to drive them. Pakistan and Karachi for instance was the Dubai on the Arabian Sea. Camel Arabs sent their sons to Karachi for education. They had no schools, no universities and many lived in tents. Of course fo note I am talking about oily Arabs. The North African and Levant existed at another level and still do. I opened a thread some time ago about KSA before the oil. Do look.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/saudia-arabia-before-the-oil.470471/

Pakistan on the other hand looked like a sophisticated, relatively poweful country. Bhutto saw these camels but being smart knew they were drowning in new found wealth post the Arab oil embargo. He then used that opportunity by offering to teach them civilizaton. You know how to drive cars, how to fly planes, how eat in polite company. This is when Pakistan sent droves of experts to help run these oily countries. Many Arabs came to study in Karachi. Example is the ruling family of UAE who studied in Karachi and learn't to play cricket. The royal family of Jordan married a Pakistani from Karachi. Zia was a military advisor to Jordan and played crucial role in suppressing the PLO uprising against the king.

Princess Sarvath married Prince Hassan bin Talal of Jordan, in Karachi, Pakistan, on 28 August 1968. They live in one of the oldest houses in Amman and have four children:[1][8]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Sarvath_al-Hassan

Soon enough Pakistani pilots were flying their jets, Pakistani bankers running their banks, running their companies, training their armies. Fact was just because billions of dollars poured out of the sand they were just camel riders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agha_Hasan_Abedi

Then as we move forward by 1980s Pakistan was stagnating. A new generation of Arabs born with silver spoons in their mouths returned from vacations and universities in America and Europe. Increasingly Pakistani labour was buildng houses, roads etc for the camels. These generation looked at Pakistanis as poor, broken workers and "miskeen". Whereas as Americans and Europeans were gods. This brought on arrogance and frowning at Pakistan. By 1990s instead of looking up at us they looked down at us. And that is where we are today. We are taken for granted because we cheapen ourselves. Look in this very forum you have Saif al Arab. I am cool with him but I often end up having tiffles with him because of his haughty attitude toward Pakistan. He will go to incredible lengths to disassociate himself from Pakistanis as if Middle East as another continent in Europe.

In summary it never was about brotherhood. It was just convergence of interests. They needed us. We needed their $$$. But some of our people mistook that for mushy stuff like brotherhood or ummah. It never was. Keep that in mind. Now they depend on USA and Western Europe which is why all roads in KSA lead to Washington. Why would they bother with struggling Pakistan when they the only superpower is a phone call to White House?

 

[BHarwana]

No, no my friend you are badly mistaken. Human nature has not changed. The reason they respected was simple. Think of 1970. Saudi's had just about exchanged their camels for cars. But they did not know how to drive them. Pakistan and Karachi for instance was the Dubai on the Arabian Sea. Camel Arabs sent their sons to Karachi for education. They had no schools, no universities and many lived in tents. Of course fo note I am talking about oily Arabs. The North African and Levant existed at another level and still do. I opened a thread some time ago about KSA before the oil. Do look.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/saudia-arabia-before-the-oil.470471/

Pakistan on the other hand looked like a sophisticated, relatively poweful country. Bhutto saw these camels but being smart knew they were drowning in new found wealth post the Arab oil embargo. He then used that opportunity by offering to teach them civilizaton. You know how to drive cars, how to fly planes, how eat in polite company. This is when Pakistan sent droves of experts to help run these oily countries. Many Arabs came to study in Karachi. Example is the ruling family of UAE who studied in Karachi and learn't to play cricket. The royal family of Jordan married a Pakistani from Karachi. Zia was a military advisor to Jordan and played crucial role in suppressing the PLO uprising against the king.

Princess Sarvath married Prince Hassan bin Talal of Jordan, in Karachi, Pakistan, on 28 August 1968. They live in one of the oldest houses in Amman and have four children:[1][8]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Sarvath_al-Hassan

Soon enough Pakistani pilots were flying their jets, Pakistani bankers running their banks, running their companies, training their armies. Fact was just because billions of dollars poured out of the sand they were just camel riders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agha_Hasan_Abedi

Then as we move forward by 1980s Pakistan was stagnating. A new generation of Arabs born with silver spoons in their mouths returned from vacations and universities in America and Europe. Increasingly Pakistani labour was buildng houses, roads etc for the camels. These generation looked at Pakistanis as poor, broken workers and "miskeen". Whereas as Americans and Europeans were gods. This brought on arrogance and frowning at Pakistan. By 1990s instead of looking up at us they looked down at us. And that is where we are today. We are taken for granted because we cheapen ourselves. Look in this very forum you have Saif al Arab. I am cool with him but I often end up having tiffles with him because of his haughty attitude toward Pakistan. He will go to incredible lengths to disassociate himself from Pakistanis as if Middle East as another continent in Europe.

In summary it never was about brotherhood. It was just convergence of interests. They needed us. We needed their $$$. But some of our people mistook that for mushy stuff like brotherhood or ummah. It never was. Keep that in mind. Now they depend on USA and Western Europe which is why all roads in KSA lead to Washington. Why would they bother with struggling Pakistan when they the only superpower is a phone call to White House?

Yes you summed it up all correctly. The sad thing is they are still thinking on manipulating us.

 

[AGENT-47]

No, no my friend you are badly mistaken. Human nature has not changed. The reason they respected was simple. Think of 1970. Saudi's had just about exchanged their camels for cars. But they did not know how to drive them. Pakistan and Karachi for instance was the Dubai on the Arabian Sea. Camel Arabs sent their sons to Karachi for education. They had no schools, no universities and many lived in tents. Of course fo note I am talking about oily Arabs. The North African and Levant existed at another level and still do. I opened a thread some time ago about KSA before the oil. Do look.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/saudia-arabia-before-the-oil.470471/

Pakistan on the other hand looked like a sophisticated, relatively poweful country. Bhutto saw these camels but being smart knew they were drowning in new found wealth post the Arab oil embargo. He then used that opportunity by offering to teach them civilizaton. You know how to drive cars, how to fly planes, how eat in polite company. This is when Pakistan sent droves of experts to help run these oily countries. Many Arabs came to study in Karachi. Example is the ruling family of UAE who studied in Karachi and learn't to play cricket. The royal family of Jordan married a Pakistani from Karachi. Zia was a military advisor to Jordan and played crucial role in suppressing the PLO uprising against the king.

Princess Sarvath married Prince Hassan bin Talal of Jordan, in Karachi, Pakistan, on 28 August 1968. They live in one of the oldest houses in Amman and have four children:[1][8]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Sarvath_al-Hassan

Soon enough Pakistani pilots were flying their jets, Pakistani bankers running their banks, running their companies, training their armies. Fact was just because billions of dollars poured out of the sand they were just camel riders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agha_Hasan_Abedi

Then as we move forward by 1980s Pakistan was stagnating. A new generation of Arabs born with silver spoons in their mouths returned from vacations and universities in America and Europe. Increasingly Pakistani labour was buildng houses, roads etc for the camels. These generation looked at Pakistanis as poor, broken workers and "miskeen". Whereas as Americans and Europeans were gods. This brought on arrogance and frowning at Pakistan. By 1990s instead of looking up at us they looked down at us. And that is where we are today. We are taken for granted because we cheapen ourselves. Look in this very forum you have Saif al Arab. I am cool with him but I often end up having tiffles with him because of his haughty attitude toward Pakistan. He will go to incredible lengths to disassociate himself from Pakistanis as if Middle East as another continent in Europe.

In summary it never was about brotherhood. It was just convergence of interests. They needed us. We needed their $$$. But some of our people mistook that for mushy stuff like brotherhood or ummah. It never was. Keep that in mind. Now they depend on USA and Western Europe which is why all roads in KSA lead to Washington. Why would they bother with struggling Pakistan when they the only superpower is a phone call to White House?

Good points...

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Yes you summed it up all correctly. The sad thing is they are still thinking on manipulating us.

If there was even a whiff of "brotherhood or ummah" then what should have happened is a Islamic Economic Union [IEU] should have been set by 1970s drawn along the lines that Christian Europeans have the European Union. KSA, Pakistan, UAE, Oman, Bahrain could have been the founding members. It could have had -

• Common labour market - All member countries have preferance for job market. Meaning if a doctor is needed in KSA any member country has first rights. If the post is not filled then only does the job get offered to outside countries.
  
• 
  
• Common defence - All member countries are obligate in join defence. attack against one is attack against all. Read Islamic NATO. All member countries armies learn to operate together.
  
• 
  
• Common investment fund - A fund is set that invests in the poorer countries to raise their economies.
• 
  
• Common agriculture policy - All countries place tariffs on any imports and preferance is given to member country produce. Meaning Saudi dates come to Pakistan and our wheat, rice and other agriculture produce is given priority in member countries.

If this had been done I would have been the biggest supporter of the ummah. This would have been like France, Germany, Italy, Belgium etc have set up the European Union. But that is not the case. Instead KSA/GCC import their milk fron New Zealand, meat from Australia, fruit from Italy, labour preferance to India and defence out sourced to USA etc

And you expect me to believe in ummah? Bahhhhh !

 

[BHarwana]

If there was even a whiff of "brotherhood or ummah" then what should have happened is a Islamic Economic Union [IEU] should have been set by 1970s drawn along the lines that Christian Europeans have the European Union. KSA, Pakistan, UAE, Oman, Bahrain could have been the founding members. It could have had -

• Common labour market - All member countries have preferance for job market. Meaning if a doctor is needed in KSA any member country has first rights. If the post is not filled then only does the job get offered to outside countries.
  
• 
  
• Common defence - All member countries are obligate in join defence. attack against one is attack against all. Read Islamic NATO. All member countries armies learn to operate together.
  
• 
  
• Common investment fund - A fund is set that invests in the poorer countries to raise their economies.
• 
  
• Common agriculture policy - All countries place tariffs on any imports and preferance is given to member country produce. Meaning Saudi dates come to Pakistan and our wheat, rice and other agriculture produce is given priority in member countries.

If this had been done I would have been the biggest supporter of the ummah. This would have been like France, Germany, Italy, Belgium etc have set up the European Union. But that is not the case. Instead KSA/GCC import their milk fron New Zealand, meat from Australia, fruit from Italy, labour preferance to India and defence out sourced to USA etc

And you expect me to believe in ummah? Bahhhhh !

I am not expecting you to believe ummah but I am talking about leverage. I know there is no love loss in Saudis if some one attacks us. I am very aware of the fact. I know if time come where Iranian interests move beyond us they will also ditch us. It will be only you and me, us Pakistanis who will cry on each other's grave and no one else but keeping a IP alive gives us that leverage over Saudis. The same way Saudis sell oil to India.
Saudi ambassador to pakistan has made his third visit today to IK and offering all type of help in past 20 days this is his third visit.

They are desperate I am not suggesting to trust them but rather play dead and exploit like they did to us.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1034168484215889925

They are trying their best to gain influence over us.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1034177808820592642

The current state has been a reset and this will benefit us.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1033977916227510272

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I am talking about leverage

Yes. Great point. Pakistan needs to ruthlessly play between KSA and Iran. Use that rivalry betweenb both to extract the highest price possible. If KSA realizes that Pak will dump KSA for Iran to pursue it's interest KSA will be force to raise the benefits it brings to the table. Pakistan is a large powrful country and it should not be sold like it is a Nepal or Somalia for trifling few $ billion. Also it should keep one foot in Iran and another in KSA increasing the footprint from one to other to keep the pressure up and extract the maximum. Non should take Pakistan for granted. Non.

If KSA or other GCC think Indian workers suit them better please don't sell the ummah brother rubbish. We should also then measure everything by gain and profit. And if Iranian gas is good for us go for it. If KSA can offer a better package to offset that even better. Business is business. Like KSA does with our arch enemy India.

 

[Path-Finder]

I am not expecting you to believe ummah but I am talking about leverage. I know there is no love loss in Saudis if some one attacks us. I am very aware of the fact. I know if time come where Iranian interests move beyond us they will also ditch us. It will be only you and me, us Pakistanis who will cry on each other's grave and no one else but keeping a IP alive gives us that leverage over Saudis. The same way Saudis sell oil to India.
Saudi ambassador to pakistan has made his third visit today to IK and offering all type of help in past 20 days this is his third visit.

They are desperate I am not suggesting to trust them but rather play dead and exploit like they did to us.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1034168484215889925

They are trying their best to gain influence over us.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1034177808820592642

The current state has been a reset and this will benefit us.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1033977916227510272

A very simple solution is, Use Trucks to receive delivery of gas and oil from Iran. kakki bassi had brought many many, many pressurised gas containers for LNG and some from the UK which I surprised to see on the roads of Pakistan because the gas companies paint work was still on them! A pipeline at present will attract attention but using trucks to receive oil and gas can easily get brushed under the carpet.

 

[BHarwana]

A very simple solution is, Use Trucks to receive delivery of gas and oil from Iran. kakki bassi had brought many many, many pressurised gas containers for LNG and some from the UK which I surprised to see on the roads of Pakistan because the gas companies paint work was still on them! A pipeline at present will attract attention but using trucks to receive oil and gas can easily get brushed under the carpet.

We are using Russia as a front for Iranian gas.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Yes. Great point. Pakistan needs to ruthlessly play between KSA and Iran. Use that rivalry betweenb both to extract the highest price possible. If KSA realizes that Pak will dump KSA for Iran to pursue it's interest KSA will be force to raise the benefits it brings to the table. Pakistan is a large powrful country and it should not be sold like it is a Nepal or Somalia for trifling few $ billion. Also it should keep one foot in Iran and another in KSA increasing the footprint from one to other to keep the pressure up and extract the maximum. Non should take Pakistan for granted. Non.

If KSA or other GCC think Indian workers suit them better please don't sell the ummah brother rubbish. We should also then measure everything by gain and profit. And if Iranian gas is good for us go for it. If KSA can offer a better package to offset that even better. Business is business. Like KSA does with our arch enemy India.

EXACTLY!!!!!!....Iran and the Saudis should be seen as business partners ONLY. There is NO brotherhood with EITHER of them. We need to start flexing our muscles. Lets get the best deal from BOTH them. NOTHING MORE.

 

[pzfz]

IP or TAPI pipelines are not only strategically nonviable but economic white elephants. The promise simply isn't there. Lets stop wasting time on being a simple conduit for other countries and rather start focusing on how to export finished goods and services to these countries.

 

[PradoTLC]

We have cut imports by 12%. Even if we cut by 50% we will remain Irans second largest export market for its oil by a LONG MARGIN worth tens of Billion Dollars. You on the other hand import neither oil or gas from your Islamic brothers next door and NEVER WILL, yet denigrate a relationship you know nothing about, and you advise throw up bile while NOT BUYING A CENTS WORTH OF OIL OR GAS FROM IRAN.

The point is india also buckles under pressure.. so stop acting up your case....

 

[AGENT-47]

To expose the so-called Muslim Brotherhood myth, we don’t need to look beyond what’s happening in Yemen and Syria… Iran-Saudi rivalry and Pakistan-Afghanistan tensions are a few more examples… Iran-Iraq war, Iraq-Kuwait war and Gulf war, all point to the bitter reality that everyone acts in their own interests regardless of nationality and religion…

As far as Saudi-Pak relations go, right now we could use the financial assistance that Saudis have pledged to give Pakistan if IMF denies a bailout… I think, that is partly the reason why PTI government has announced it won’t be pursuing the IP, since dealing with the foreign debt is a matter of more urgent priority... From what I know, Saudi king and Crown Prince have also made repeated calls to Imran Khan and invited him to visit, Saudi ambassador has also been very active lately…