Why India is replacing Russian R-73 Close combat air-to-air missile with Israeli Python-5 on LCA-Tej

[fsayed]

It’s more or less confirmed now that India’s Indigenously developed LCA-Tejas will enter operational service in Indian Air Force with Israeli supplied Python-5 has its Close Combat Air-to-Air missile (CCM) replacing Russian developed R-73 CCM has its Primary weapon of choice for Close-combat missile which was also the initial choice of Indian Air Force .

R-73 CCM was first Air-to-Air missile which was successfully integrated and test fired from LCA-Tejas Pre-production aircraft nearly 6 years ago and had successfully completed its integration with the onboard Digital Stores Management System (SMS), Open Architecture Mission and Display Computer even before it achieved its Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) .

Highly reliable sources close to idrw.org have confirmed to us that lack of cooperation from Russia in providing access to its source code and high price demanded in certifying it with Indo-Israeli Multi-Mode Fire control Radar (FCR) was one of the factors in the deal-breaker . IAF and DRDO were also convinced that Israeli Python-5 CCM offered superior performance to R-73 and could provide better integration with FCR of LCA-Tejas.

Israeli-developed I-Derby Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM) was in operational service in India with recently retired Sea Harrier Jump Jets and later it was also selected as BVRAAM for LCA-Tejas which underwent successfully test firing from LCA-Tejas earlier this year . so it was decided that I-Derby and Python-5 Combo will be ideal Air-to-Air missiles for LCA-Tejas .

Python-5 offered the off-boresight capability of greater than 90 degrees as compared to 60 degrees on the R-73 . Python-5 features both Lock-on After Launch (LOAL) and Lock on before Launch (LOBL) capability when compared to R-73 which only offered LOBL capabilities . Python-5 also offered improved IRCCM (Infrared counter-countermeasures) as a result of its dual-band Imaging Infra-red seeker.

Israel already has offered its current I-Derby BVRAAM operators with newly revealed I-Derby ER ( Extended Range ) missile with the ability to hit the target at 100kms when compared to 60km plus offered by Previous Gen I-Derby which will require no major changes to aircraft FCR which is already been integrated with its older I-Derby BVRAAMs.

India also plans to integrate its indigenously developed Astra BVRAAM at present undergoing developmental trials from sukhoi-30 MKI aircraft with LCA-Tejas in near future and also has plans to develop longer Astra-II with extended range .

 

[fsayed]

http://idrw.org/india-replacing-rus...t-air-air-missile-israeli-python-5-lca-tejas/

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Why would a R 73 Heat seeking missile need source codes and integration to the radar? Perhaps integration to the HMD might have been a problem. But a radar? I think the author is an idiot of the first order.

 

[rockstarIN]

Why would a R 73 Heat seeking missile need source codes and integration to the radar? Perhaps integration to the HMD might have been a problem. But a radar? I think the author is an idiot of the first order.

It can be fired using radar mode too (i think)

 

[GURU DUTT]

Python i guess features an advanced electro-optical infrared homing + 320×240 pixel dual waveband electro-optical imaging seeker, lock on after launch, with infrared counter-counter-measures (IRCCM) + since we use EL-2032 MMR and El2052 AESA on Mk1A its already intigrated with so lesser hassele and ruskies are also asking too much forsource codes for intigration of R73 on Tejas + the fact that Python5 has 90Degrees HOBS capability while R73 has only 60 Degrees ... il put my money on israeli stuff

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro-optical

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_homing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_(missile)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-73_(missile)

 

[Manindra]

Why would a R 73 Heat seeking missile need source codes and integration to the radar? Perhaps integration to the HMD might have been a problem. But a radar? I think the author is an idiot of the first order.

IDRW ?
They are confusing with R-77 missile.

 

[kaykay]

Python5 is a generation ahead of R-73s....Its among best in the world when it comes to wvr missiles.

 

[cirr]

Can't you guys make your own god damned CCMs?

Remember this is 2016.

 

[Blue Marlin]

It’s more or less confirmed now that India’s Indigenously developed LCA-Tejas will enter operational service in Indian Air Force with Israeli supplied Python-5 has its Close Combat Air-to-Air missile (CCM) replacing Russian developed R-73 CCM has its Primary weapon of choice for Close-combat missile which was also the initial choice of Indian Air Force .

R-73 CCM was first Air-to-Air missile which was successfully integrated and test fired from LCA-Tejas Pre-production aircraft nearly 6 years ago and had successfully completed its integration with the onboard Digital Stores Management System (SMS), Open Architecture Mission and Display Computer even before it achieved its Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) .

Highly reliable sources close to idrw.org have confirmed to us that lack of cooperation from Russia in providing access to its source code and high price demanded in certifying it with Indo-Israeli Multi-Mode Fire control Radar (FCR) was one of the factors in the deal-breaker . IAF and DRDO were also convinced that Israeli Python-5 CCM offered superior performance to R-73 and could provide better integration with FCR of LCA-Tejas.

Israeli-developed I-Derby Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM) was in operational service in India with recently retired Sea Harrier Jump Jets and later it was also selected as BVRAAM for LCA-Tejas which underwent successfully test firing from LCA-Tejas earlier this year . so it was decided that I-Derby and Python-5 Combo will be ideal Air-to-Air missiles for LCA-Tejas .

Python-5 offered the off-boresight capability of greater than 90 degrees as compared to 60 degrees on the R-73 . Python-5 features both Lock-on After Launch (LOAL) and Lock on before Launch (LOBL) capability when compared to R-73 which only offered LOBL capabilities . Python-5 also offered improved IRCCM (Infrared counter-countermeasures) as a result of its dual-band Imaging Infra-red seeker.

Israel already has offered its current I-Derby BVRAAM operators with newly revealed I-Derby ER ( Extended Range ) missile with the ability to hit the target at 100kms when compared to 60km plus offered by Previous Gen I-Derby which will require no major changes to aircraft FCR which is already been integrated with its older I-Derby BVRAAMs.

India also plans to integrate its indigenously developed Astra BVRAAM at present undergoing developmental trials from sukhoi-30 MKI aircraft with LCA-Tejas in near future and also has plans to develop longer Astra-II with extended range .

so its not due to transfering source code but its technological ability. also i thought israel dont make the derby bvraam anymore? if the iaf are buying them.... why? its old? also does this mean theres a problem with the astra missile? and what of the r77 on the lca to be honset i unsure on the deal im not saying the python missile is not good the python missiles are beasts no doubt. also what about americain misiles or even british the asraam missiles is on iaf jaguars why not the lca? this brings more questions then answers

 

[Sri]

IAF is buying the newer version i.e. I-Derby ER, and this is being integrated to LCA. this is a modern missile ( debut 2015) and as per the companies claim its 80% performance of Meteor at 1/3 cost and much better than all other operational BVRs including Amraam and Mica. Also we do not want more time lost in integration and Elta 2032/2052 are already integrated to I-Derby ER, It will take few more years for Astra to be come operational. So is the choice of I-Derby ER.
http://aviationweek.com/paris-air-show-2015/i-derby-er-all-new-performance-0

 

[kaykay]

so its not due to transfering source code but its technological ability. also i thought israel dont make the derby bvraam anymore? if the iaf are buying them.... why? its old? also does this mean theres a problem with the astra missile? and what of the r77 on the lca to be honset i unsure on the deal im not saying the python missile is not good the python missiles are beasts no doubt. also what about americain misiles or even british the asraam missiles is on iaf jaguars why not the lca? this brings more questions then answers

Israel has offered new Derby-ER BVRs with 100+ km range for Tejas and they are improved and superior in every way to early Derbys and these are recent ones. Astra missiles are yet to be operational and these will be integrated in almost all new bvr capable platforms except Rafale may be. And No, R-77s are not gonna make it on Tejas. For BVR, Its Derby-ER and Astra at later stage. Lastly, Python-5 and Derby-ER makes sense even more cos they'll be integrated with Israeli radars and many other systems. Integrating asraam makes no sense as python5 is equally capable if not better for the role intended with more ease to integrate it on platform.

 

[MilSpec]

bs article. There is no "source code" for integration of mission computer, it's an adapter used for comm bus.

so its not due to transfering source code but its technological ability. also i thought israel dont make the derby bvraam anymore?

Wrong, Derby is still in production. There is no "source code" R73 is not a java app that dumb journalist in the article refers to, integration of R73 needs a Mil 1553 SP adapter, address bus installation as per wiring diagram provided for the AKU-170E, or similar terminal block for harness with any meu that can mimick the 4-20ma signal of the AKU-170E .

if the iaf are buying them.... why? its old? also does this mean theres a problem with the astra missile?

No, it means it's still under development.

and what of the r77 on the lca to be honset i unsure on the deal im not saying the python missile is not good the python missiles are beasts no doubt. also what about americain misiles or even british the asraam missiles is on iaf jaguars why not the lca? this brings more questions then answers

R77 RVV AE/SD are BVRAAM and officially not qualified on LCA. Python is SRAAM, there is no comparison. India doesn't use any American SRAAM, or BVRAAM. It was unfortunate that IAF picked ASRAAM, if jags could get an Elta mmr, and Mica wasn't so damn expensive, Asraam would have never gotten in.

 

[Blue Marlin]

bs article. There is no "source code" for integration of mission computer, it's an adapter used for comm bus.

well ok.

Wrong, Derby is still in production. There is no "source code" R73 is not a java app that dumb journalist in the article refers to, integration of R73 needs a Mil 1553 SP adapter, address bus installation as per wiring diagram provided for the AKU-170E, or similar terminal block for harness with any meu that can mimick the 4-20ma signal of the AKU-170E .

well thats makes sense. but i thought thr r73 and other russain kit is made differently so i would have assumed it wont accept a mil-1553/sp serial bus

No, it means it's still under development.

oop's my bad its been around for so long south african varient is being retired

R77 RVV AE/SD are BVRAAM and officially not qualified on LCA. Python is SRAAM, there is no comparison. India doesn't use any American SRAAM, or BVRAAM. It was unfortunate that IAF picked ASRAAM, if jags could get an Elta mmr, and Mica wasn't so damn expensive, Asraam would have never gotten in.

i mentioned the r-77 as its simply russain is know its a bvraam. if india purchased lets say the aim-9x it would not require and modifications providing that that lca has a Mil-1553/SP which it would as it uses israel tech. the thing that i find quiet starange is that its only for the jaguars which is strange. i too i think the induction of th asraam is unfortunate. a large bulk purchase of the python series missile would be better.

oh well its their choice what they want.