Why I won't live among Hindus

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Yaar chill out.

They are also human beings and deserve to live happily like everyone else. I'm all for fight for what it's right but if the way is to become a murderous monster then that's no victory.

You might say better them than us. But it is not enough to survive, you must remain worthy of survival.

Remember that, don't ever become the demon you are trying to defeat. A little cool mind, politeness even while addressing the enemy (ever seen james bond lose his cool against the bad guys?) and pausing to review what you have to say goes a long way in building good character.

Remember this forum is not here to make fun of any nationality or show them down. It is here to discuss and possibly try to use that discussion to make the world a little better place.

But what really puts us behind is that people are not able to accept the truth, Its harder to Speak Truth then to Listen, i always say. Its not that Muslims in India are only lacking in every thing but its true that they are lacking in nearly everything, but no one is trying to get out from this misery either. Sometimes when you are not getting what is a right in a free country as presumed by Indians mostly,a community must stand together for their rights and fight for their rights on all possible forums politically. What all the Muslim elected members of PA and NA are doing in India for Muslims is also a point to think... Are they doing any thing for the rights of Suppressed minority. I think not. Donot blame majority Hindus totally, thou they try their bit in the situation, but its them selves they are to Blame to not try to change their future.

 

[MIG_ACE]

There is no denying the fact that the Muslim community in India is economically backward compared to the other communities. But to put the blame for this entirely on the government would be stupid.

The community itself shares the blame. The Muslim religious leaders are more interested in issuing fatwas against Sania Mirza for wearing short skirts than trying to convince the community of the need for a proper education. Many muslim parents still willlingly send their children to such Madarassas where nothing except the Koran is taught. Yes such schools still exist.

The Indian government needs to do something for the upliftment of the muslim community , but branding it as the villain responsible for the plight of the section of muslims which is backward is both wrong and useless.

The muslims are a large and important vote bank in India with all sorts of parties like the Congress, the communists and other regional parties wooing them.With such an influence they can get what they want.Trouble is they don't know exactly what they want.

 

[zeus]

i like to tell something based on what i have seen over the years , when i graduated i was only 21 at that time by 22 most of my class mates (Muslim girls) were married off ,they did not even take up a single job even when they were provided equal opportunity by the government such a waste of talent going down the sink ,only one Muslim girl from my batch (out of 15) is currently working for infosys. while most of the Muslims girls i studied with in school never made it to secondary college there goes 40 % of educated Muslims while the percentage of Christian girls in my batch was similar but 80 % of them are working ,here you can see the difference ,while coming to guys from my batch most of them come from good family background and continued with what ever family business they were only few are actually working for private firms very similar to what Christian boys from batch are doing ,but the actual problem starts from the high school i have seen 80 % of Muslim guys i knew from my school dropped out and never made it to secondary college ,how can you think ill educated people can be provided government jobs when many people from other communities are also applying for the same job ?? even for a job of peon in government offices not less then 500 apply on average ,educated women are almost in every job now and when most of the communities allow their girls to go out and work , competition is just getting tougher for every section of community to secure government jobs now ,after hindu community definitely Christian community have done great job by providing proper education to their kids ,

 

[Flintlock]

In the end, god helps those who help themselves.

Its ultimately upto the people themselves to uplift and educate themselves. No politician is going to do it. As long as they remain gullible and poor, politicians will continue to exploit them over emotional issues.

The government structures are in place....panchayats, elections, primary schools, ration cards, government hospitals, free media. Ultimately, at the grassroots level, it is the locals themselves who are responsible for its implementation. Manmohan Singh cannot visit each and every village to ensure that his policies are implemented.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

In the end, god helps those who help themselves.

Its ultimately upto the people themselves to uplift and educate themselves. No politician is going to do it. As long as they remain gullible and poor, politicians will continue to exploit them over emotional issues.

The government structures are in place....panchayats, elections, primary schools, ration cards, government hospitals, free media. Ultimately, at the grassroots level, it is the locals themselves who are responsible for its implementation. Manmohan Singh cannot visit each and every village to ensure that his policies are implemented.

But that doesnt make Manmohan singh free from his duties that all rights shall be given to the people of all casts and religions in India. Muslim, Christian and low cast hindu ministers should be questioned as to what they are doing for the welfare of their people. Should be checked for their reponsibilities. only then can it be said that India is a secular state.... Not only nation makes itself secular. Government Policies and implementation makes a nation secular.

 

[Flintlock]

But that doesnt make Manmohan singh free from his duties that all rights shall be given to the people of all casts and religions in India. Muslim, Christian and low cast hindu ministers should be questioned as to what they are doing for the welfare of their people. Should be checked for their reponsibilities. only then can it be said that India is a secular state.... Not only nation makes itself secular. Government Policies and implementation makes a nation secular.

Manmohan Singh is not a dictator. He cannot order his ministers to follow his wishes.....this is one of the realities of a parliamentary form of government, and coalition politics.

In the end, the muslims, dalits, etc. need powerful leaders who actually care about the welfare of their community. Leaders like Mayawati who claims to represent dalits are actually out to exploit them as much as possible. Similarly, the leaders elected by muslims in India don't understand/care about the problems of their people.

As I said, the structures are in place, preserved by an enlightened minority. Its the imperative of the majority to implement them.

In a country like China, the structure of the administration and society allows the centre to implement policies over large segments of population. In India, the social, regional divides are too great to paint everyone with the same ideological brush. So, till grassroots leaders start to change things, nothing much will move.

 

[Malang]

Hello,

But that doesnt make Manmohan singh free from his duties that all rights shall be given to the people of all casts and religions in India.

Mr. Singh cannot be expected to do anything here, he is the adminstration's head and his duty is to listen to the courts and its people's duty to go to the courts.

If I am doing wrong then you should go to the police or courts what is the fault of the Prime Minister? unless it doesnot reach epidemic scales..

Sporadic incidents are the resonsibility of individuals and local adminstration.

Muslim, Christian and low cast hindu ministers should be questioned as to what they are doing for the welfare of their people.

Politicians all over the world are the scum of the earth how can you expect them to help they are the one's spoiling the situation.
Proactive campaigns by individuals result in Secularism there is a need to enlighten people at village level.

For low caste it is not a case of secularism it is a case of equality.

Should be checked for their reponsibilities. only then can it be said that India is a secular state.... Government Policies and implementation makes a nation secular.

In constitution India is secular and from what I have seen, in Urban areas at least it is. If any unsecular act is performed, courts are there to protect but people should be educated on their rights and have perservance and determination to fight against discrimination.

If somebody discriminates against another and the other doesn't act then it is also wrong. To commit a crime is wrong to suffer that crime is a bigger crime.


BTW: Nice ads on TV these days, one of Abhisheikh Bachchan promoting secularism, second of Airtel's Israel-Palestine unity..

PS: secularism means that the govt is detached from religion and treats/ignores all equally.. Equality and Secularism are different issues and I think you are clubbing both of them together.


Malang

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Hello,


PS: secularism means that the govt is detached from religion and treats/ignores all equally.. Equality and Secularism are different issues and I think you are clubbing both of them together.


Malang

For Minorities it is Secularism and for low cast it is equality...

 

[Astra]

Kashif
AsSalam o Alaikum
We forget that Hidus and Muslims have lived together in harmony for a thousand years.What we have seen and heard is typical of what happens when you have severe competition over meagre resources( in short it is related to eocnomic condition of the community). All emotions are intentionally stirred to achieve an aim. We see a different form of it in the regional feelings in Pakistan. As Human beings it is our duty to fight against discrimination of any sort. Indians and Pakistanis hindus and muslims live together in harmony in US and UK, barring a few instances. why cant we do this in our own countries? If I remember, there have been instances of arson against churches and Temples in Pakistan as well. Iwould readily admit that this has not been as often as in India, but it is deplorable as well.
WaSalam
Araz

Araz,

I am happy to see that the next generation of people like you have started to speak. I am against any hindu muslin discrimination. This was basically started by the British as part of their "Divide and Rule" policy, and it would be foolish to carry it further in this generation.

The same goes with the border issue in Kashmir, the LOC must be converted to IB. The people of India are brought up saying that Kashmir is part of india, and I belive its the same case in Pakistan also. But this is time we resolve the border issues and focus on development so that the people of our countries live a better life. Neither side will ever agree to give away the land because of National Pride. Gun will not solve this, it will only prevent our development and peace in our countries. The western countries understand this better than our us.

 

[ARSENAL6]

Araz,

I am happy to see that the next generation of people like you have started to speak. I am against any hindu muslin discrimination. This was basically started by the British as part of their "Divide and Rule" policy, and it would be foolish to carry it further in this generation.

Cool Please bring the voilence back to England actually bring more of it !

 

[Malang]

This was basically started by the British as part of their "Divide and Rule" policy, and it would be foolish to carry it further in this generation.

Hello Astra,
I completely disagree with this statement, in the words of MJ Akbar the eminent Indian journalist, the policy was implemented, propagated and succeeded only because people of the subcontinent were willing to be divided.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

But what really puts us behind is that people are not able to accept the truth, Its harder to Speak Truth then to Listen, i always say. Its not that Muslims in India are only lacking in every thing but its true that they are lacking in nearly everything, but no one is trying to get out from this misery either. Sometimes when you are not getting what is a right in a free country as presumed by Indians mostly,a community must stand together for their rights and fight for their rights on all possible forums politically. What all the Muslim elected members of PA and NA are doing in India for Muslims is also a point to think... Are they doing any thing for the rights of Suppressed minority. I think not. Donot blame majority Hindus totally, thou they try their bit in the situation, but its them selves they are to Blame to not try to change their future.

And yet they live in India and everyone else live in India, and all Indians live unhappily ever after!

If that notion pleases you, then at least I am happy that one person on earth is pleased as Punch in the world!

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

And yet they live in India and everyone else live in India, and all Indians live unhappily ever after!

If that notion pleases you, then at least I am happy that one person on earth is pleased as Punch in the world!

Its not what pleases you or me....

Lets hope that people will try to change their future themselves from now on and not depend on politicians.........thou it seems too much optimistic ...

 

[abhy]

The blame game, again and again. Therein lies the problem of Indian Muslims. Instead of asking 'who', they should be asking 'why'. They are not unique in facing discrimination. There is inter caste discrimination in Hindus themselves. There is regional discrimination in India too. But why is it that Indians take pride in calling sikhs their fellow Indians, despite the 80s riots ? Why are muslims considered a baggage ? Why ? Are they being singled out because they are somehow special ? Thats what Muslims should be asking, not crying victim. But thats the hardest part now isnt it ? Acknowledging faults about yourself is far far harder than blaming others for all your ills.

From my personal view, some reasons. First is the hypocrisy of calling themselves innocent victims when things don't go their way, and yet becomimg aggressive custodians of Islam everytime something happens to some muslim somewhere in the world. This pan-islamism and relegation of nationalism to 3rd position is one reason why Hindus are uncomfortable about muslim intentions. Unlike muslims, Hindus have only one land of their own, and they can get quite insecure about it.

Second, in a given population pool, if you take out half the workforce and make it sit at home idle, you cut your wealth generation capacity by half. Muslims force their womenfolk to sit at home and then complain of not being prosperous. Either take your religion too seriously, or take getting wealthy seriously, you cannot have both.

They cry of lack of opportunities and yet what we see is 'Taslima Nasreen' as the foremost grevience of Indian muslims these days. Talk about misplaced priorities.

Not even god helps those who do not help themselves, how can a mere government be any better ?

Simply put, IMO, Indian Muslims have their priorities all wrong.

Calling a spade a spade is not always easy, but it counts for most in the long run.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Its not what pleases you or me....

Lets hope that people will try to change their future themselves from now on and not depend on politicians.........thou it seems too much optimistic ...

It is naive to believe that in any country the population is 100% happy.

It is also naive to believe that the govts can make 100% happy.

It is also naive to believe that the political parties are sincere and work selflessly for the nation and not tinge their perspective with an eye to keep themselves in power!

Read Sparten's post as appended below (though a little hard to believe):

Salaam,

have you guys ever wondered why all these terrorism acts are happening in Pakistan? when did these so called 'suicide bombers' and terrorist come into being?

brothers this is an amazingly crafted game the United States is playing with us. Why didnt we ever, i mean ever hear of FATA or suicide bomber before 9/11? i remember very clearly that the only time i heard of suicide bombing was in Srilanka by the Tamil Tigers! I mean this is all their CIA doings. our government has a part in this as well. you see, the point is that we hear people saying that the suicide bombers are sent by religious scholars and are religiously motivated, but do we have any hardcore evidence about this? and the answer is none! i think we all are really intellectual people and we need to think that this stuff has got to end, were the future of our beloved land and we need to understand that is not the FATA people or religious people, it is actually the US, other foreign powers and our government. because i sit with alot of ulemas, and they all think that suicide bombing are not an islamic practice, but when needed, it can be used as a weapon in war.

i'll just narrate a small incident so my point makes a little bit sense,

LAL MASJID.

we all know the story, but this is something not alot of people know. a friend of my dad is in ISI, he told us that before the chinies diplomats got kidnapped, the police,army and rangers sitting outside the lal masjid were told to vacate their positions, now you'll ask why?

the answer is this: the government had been having issues with lal masjid for like 4 months, and from the start, they had undercover and normal police, rangers and army, all were stationed outside the lal masjid since the start. but when the students went out with scarves on their faces, and sticks in their hand and full of 2 trucks, i mean even a pedestrian would have spotted them and lest would have suspected something fishy, they went and came, and nothing happened, nobody apprehended them. so that is the reason they pulled back all of their men from lal masjid during that period.

thanks
Salaam
http://www.defence.pk/forums/strategic-geopolitical-issues/7284-acts-terrorism-pakistan-2-a-9.html