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Why Does the Muslim World Lag in Science?

At this moment in time the Muslim world seems to be in the dark ages. I agree.

However, when answering this question one must bear in mind that at one time the Muslim world was at the forefront of scientific achievement and we are still benefiting from their works today. Quite the opposite of what is seen today.

On that basis, any conclusions that ignore the history are to be deemed fundamentally flawed.

Blaming religious scripture and Islamic traditions is a prime example. It did not stop the Muslim scientists of the past, and so the answer, or answers, must revolve around something identifiably extra to what is so often alleged.

One example should be sufficient for substantiation:

Modern science demands quite extensive continuous energy which can be easily distracted by 5 times/day of praying practice. I could only imagine if an individual is extremely religious and the most important thing in life would be the religion itself and Muslims may be more apathetic to all the rest of secular business happening around them.

This individual is presenting our 5 times a day worship of God as a hindrance. Yet, the Muslims of the past viewed this as a perfect opportunity to invent. It was imperative for Muslims to know the precise direction of Makkah in order for them to perform this foundation of faith. Prayer times are astronomically determined and change from day to day, as the seasons change.

The development of an extraordinarily accurate machine was needed, particularly for travellers and traders.

The astrolabe was invented:



Hopefully, this example should suffice for most of you.
 
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Alright then keep living in the past glory then.Why Muslims are biting themselves in the ***.Some even argue that advanced education is western culture.
 
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Alright then keep living the past glory then.

If that belligerent and of no use remark was aimed at me, I suggest you learn some English before partaking on this forum.

Read my post again, preferably in a non-drunken state.
 
At this moment in time the Muslim world seems to be in the dark ages. I agree.

However, when answering this question one must bear in mind that at one time the Muslim world was at the forefront of scientific achievement and we are still benefiting from their works today. Quite the opposite of what is seen today.

On that basis, any conclusions that ignore the history are to be deemed fundamentally flawed.

Blaming religious scripture and Islamic traditions is a prime example. It did not stop the Muslim scientists of the past, and so the answer, or answers, must revolve around something identifiably extra to what is so often alleged.

One example should be sufficient for substantiation:



This individual is presenting our 5 times a day worship of God as a hindrance. Yet, the Muslims of the past viewed this as a perfect opportunity to invent. It was imperative for Muslims to know the precise direction of Makkah in order for them to perform this foundation of faith. Prayer times are astronomically determined and change from day to day, as the seasons change.

The development of an extraordinarily accurate machine was needed, particularly for travellers and traders.

The astrolabe was invented
:

0d833bf0b40f706afd411e26971d5f3f._.jpg


Hopefully, this example should suffice for most of you.
That the astrolab was invented out of such necessity is debatable at best. Still...Even if we allow that explanation to be true, that is an example of how science was subordinated to serve religion, or a particular religious need. But what would (or could) happen if science discovered and/or established a principle that contradict a religious dictum? We have seen plenty of examples in Western history where the Christian Church persecuted 'heretics' for exactly that.

Years ago I debated a muslim nicknamed 'PrinceZed', now 'Light-of-Mustafa', over at bishmika allahuma about geocentrism versus heliocentrism...

Sun and Moon Orbit around Fixed Earth - Page 51 - Bismika Allahuma Discussion Forum
lol! That is lame refutation! What you gave was a very basic demonstration of how an object receives horizontal velocity when thrown vertically from a moving object that is moving horizontally.

Even a 5 year old could have figure that out.

Someone also gave the same argument as you earlier in the thread, and like them you failed to realise that in a REAL system, thats not what happens. You haven't taken into consideration the relative movement of the atmosphere with respect to the earth and thus the frictional forces that would result.

I've already demonstrated many times how it is impossible for the atmosphere to be spinning along with the earth at the same velocity as the earth's rotation (i.e. 1670km/hr) since the viscosity of the air is very low. Therefore, how can the spinning earth make the millions of tons of atmosphere spin along with it like as if the air was attached to it like magnetic? And we know its not attached by simply swinging our arm through it or something.

Therefore, if the earth was spinning and the atmosphere was standing still, then in such a case, if you threw an object into the air vertically, it would land miles away to the wet since the atmosphere would be moving relative to the earth at high speeds in that direction. But we don't observe that to happen. We see the object land on the spot it was thrown from, thus proving that the earth is still.
The man claimed to have received honors from one of Britain's top university, which he did not specified, in Physics, Chemistry and several others in the Sciences. And yet throughout the discussion, he committed logical errors and gross ignorance of even the basic principles of the sciences in which he claimed those honors. He demanded that muslims accepted geocentrism over heliocentrism simply because Quranic interpretations said so. Science be damned. This is in the 21st century.

How many more like 'PrinceZed', aka 'Light-of-Mustafa', are out there among the ummah, and how pervasive is his 7th century mentality among the same community? No one knows. It is easy for anyone to dismiss this man as 'not representative' of the ummah. But is it really that easy a dismissal when the world daily sees the gross disparity in scientific and engineering contributions between the West and the ummah?

We understand that there is no overriding legal authority in the ummah that could decree that muslims believe in so-and-so scientific principles. But given the gross disparity in scientific and engineering contributions between the two worlds, we SHOULD suspect that PrinceZed's 7th century mentality may be quite morally compelling than currently thought. If there is sufficient moral compulsion, no legal directives are necessary. Moral compulsions results in actions. Actions produces lifestyles and lifestyles give us 'communities'.
 
What I don't understand is why people always seem to want to mix religion with science. Science and technology are for human brains, for us to make sense of everything going on around us in a secular world; whereas religion speaks to the human heart. They are two separate things. Religion is more of a spiritual calling than a science, its based on humanity. To mix religion with science, it's like you mix an orange with an apple. It doesn't make sense to me.

Science is for human brains whereas religion is for human hearts. Without brains, we all are zombies; without religion (human passions), we are all soulless animals.

Why are these things so difficult?
The `purest' believers must have their own moment of weakness; whereas the most atheistic must have their own moment of hope that there better be a God.

:cheers:
 
What I don't understand is why people always seem to want to mix religion with science. Science and technology are for human brains, for us to make sense of everything going on around us in a secular world; whereas religion speaks to the human heart. They are two separate things. Religion is more of a spiritual calling than a science, its based on humanity. To mix religion with science, it's like you mix an orange with an apple. It doesn't make sense to me.

Science is for human brains whereas religion is for human hearts. Without brains, we all are zombies; without religion (human passions), we are all soulless animals.

Why are these things so difficult?
The `purest' believers must have their own moment of weakness; whereas the most atheistic must have their own moment of hope that there better be a God.

:cheers:

Exactly!

That is the most frustrating thing for many of us in the Muslim world.
If you check this forum in almost every subject, from improving Pakistan to science and technology, sooner or later people get hung up about what is the "Islamic" thing to do.

Unfortunately Muslims are so brainwashed with religious indoctrination, that many people are unable to think of any problem outside a religious context.

Don't get me wrong. I am not for a moment suggesting that we Muslims should give up our religion or heritage. As a Muslim I am proud of both, and I am well aware of the ongoing assault on Muslims under the guise of the GWOT, but I simpy do not understand why some people want religion to rule their every thought. What on earth does religion have to do with learning quantum mechanics or plate tectonics?

Sigh...
 
What I don't understand is why people always seem to want to mix religion with science. Science and technology are for human brains, for us to make sense of everything going on around us in a secular world; whereas religion speaks to the human heart. They are two separate things. Religion is more of a spiritual calling than a science, its based on humanity. To mix religion with science, it's like you mix an orange with an apple. It doesn't make sense to me.
Easy...Religion is presupposition or presumptuous with the world at large. Science is neither. In sound scientific processes, a hypothesis is formed with the understanding by all who is versed in those same processes that the hypothesis can be wrong. Being presumptuous does not have such allowances. A religious person therefore must either suppress science in any way he can, or unable to do so, must engage in amazing feats of mental gymnastics in trying to reconcile his religious beliefs against newly discovered scientific principles that contradict his presuppositions of the universe. As long as the religious person REFUSE to acknowledge that whatever his 'holy scriptures' said about the physical universe as allegorical instead of factual, he has no choice but to, as you said, 'mix religion with science' in those attempts of suppression of science or reconciliation between the two worlds. It is a vicious circle for human civilizations and the gross disparity between the muslims and the secular West is proof of this mentality.
 
Why is this not stickied any more? The Muslim world still lags behind...so.. yeah. 13 pages, some very good stuff in here. I vote for re-sticky
 
The backwards forward

by Nadeem F. Paracha

There is an informative debate show on a local private channel called Alif. The show is mostly about the various philosophies of Islam and their place in Pakistan and rest of the Muslim world. A moderator usually invites up to four intellectuals every week, with two of them usually being ‘moderate’ in outlook while the other two guests hold a more conservative view on the discussed topic.

Even though it is one of the more academically sound Islamic programmes compared to the myopic disasters viewers are bombarded with in this respect, Alif almost always ends up hitting an intellectual dead-end.

The reason for this is the common consensus Muslim scholars of all shades have had on the traditional version of Islamic history. So no mater how diverse their views and interpretations of what constitutes Islamic philosophy and law, they all usually end up with almost exactly the same agreement on Islamic traditions that emerged some time in the late ninth and early tenth centuries, after which the ‘gates of ijtihad’ were said to be closed
.

However, many modern Islamic scholars have now started to point out that the roots of political and social problems that the Muslim communities started to face after Muslim imperialism began its decline after the eighteenth century can be traced to the laws, politics and social bearings constructed from the pitfalls of the consensus reached among various Islamic schools of thought on what constitutes Islamic history and tradition.

They believe that this history and the traditions that it cemented stopped being investigated critically and thus ended up creating gaping misconceptions and leaps of logic about what Islam meant and how it was practiced during the Prophet’s time.

In other words, the history of early Islam that is taught to every Muslim child and is taken as the primary source by almost all Muslim scholars and historians was never put to any serious intellectual test and modern investigative methods
.

On the other hand, western historians, while investigating the theological history of early Christianity, tried to a understand the ‘historical Jesus’ in place of the ‘theological Jesus’ whom they discovered (and claim) was different from his historical self.

The theological Jesus, they figured, had very little to do with the actual events in history and was more a creation of Christian priests and scholars who appeared almost two generations after Jesus. According to these historians, the theological version of Jesus was formed for political and evangelical reasons in which the person of Jesus was exaggerated and his personality molded according to social and political norms and nuances of the time when early Christian priests were formulating the personality of Jesus through their exegeses of the Bible and the Gospels.

Early Islamic history has hardly ever been treated and investigated in this manner. Some early attempts were made between the fourteenth and nineteenth centuries, but these attempts were largely the work of Christian apologists who failed to take an unbiased and objective view of the subject and generated their work more as a way to pitch the ‘authenticity of Christian history’ against that of Islam.

However, in the twentieth century, small groups of secular European academics and scholars picked up the pieces and started to investigate early Islamic history using the academic methods historians and anthropologists use to study non-theological history. So far the results have been startling, and many progressive Muslim scholars and historians too have agreed to some of what the rigorous investigations and secular study of early Islamic history has generated.

The most controversial among the investigators was the late Dr John Wansbrough, a leading historian and researcher at London’s prestigious SOAS institute. Though controversial, Wansbrough triggered an academic wave in which a number of respected historians and scholars started studying early Islamic history with the same academic and investigative tools with which historians study the historical context of the Bible and with which general history is studied and its authenticity determined. Wansbrough was at once criticised by Muslim academia for undermining the importance of primary Muslim sources in his study.

Other leading historians in this respect have been Prof. Patricia Crone, Martin Hinds, Michael Cook and Prof. G R. Hawting – people whose critical look at early Islamic history has been largely respected by a number of modern Islamic scholars.

The meeting point where these western academics and many progressive Muslim scholars have managed to reach is the fact that almost all early Islamic history is based on just a single complete biography written on the life of the Prophet. It appeared in 750 CE (by Ibn Ishaq), or about a century and a half after the demise of the Prophet. In fact, this biography has only survived in the writings of Ibn Hisham, who wrote a biography of the Prophet in early ninth Century.

Modern western and Muslim scholars now believe that the accuracy of these biographies is unascertainable because instead of any written documents, Ishaq and Hisham used memorised accounts of the life of Prophet Muhammad (hadiths) as sources
.

Historians now view the hadiths with caution, insisting that they cannot be taken as accurate historical sources because they first started to be documented more than a century after the Prophet’s demise.

The reason why early biographers of the Prophet, and early Islamic lawmakers who used hadith accounts to formulate the shariah, could not use any tangible written documents (other than the Qu’ran) was that even a hundred years after the demise of the Prophet there were almost no documented Muslim sources at all about early Islam. Ibn Ishaq’s biography is the only surviving source (written 130 years after the Prophet).

Modern Muslim and western scholarship studying Islam believes that Islam’s progressive evolution was mutated and it became increasingly static after ulema started to compare the human condition of their time with a rather romanticised version of Islam’s early history that was constructed purely on memorised accounts. Accounts that were first put to writing more than a century after the Prophet are likely to have gone through various lapses.


Scholars like Wansbrough, Crone, Hinds, Prof. Ziauddin Sardar, Mohammad Arkoun, and authors such as Irshan Manji, Sumanto Al Qurtuby, and Rashad Khalifa believe most of these memorised accounts of the Prophet and of life under the first four Caliphs were documented more than a century after the Prophet’s demise and then ‘projected back to the time of the Prophet.’

The reason to do so were largely political because at the time Islam was a rapidly expanding imperialist force and needed a politico-religious anchor, especially in the conquered lands that had different (or opposing) faiths as dominant religions.

This tradition was carried across all major stages of Muslim imperialism and the Islamic doctrines were further expanded through scholarly assumptions about life under the Prophet and the ‘rightly guided Caliphs.’ The hadith remained the primary source.

At the decline of Muslim imperialism some time in the late eigteenth and mid-nineteenth centuries, the narratives on which much of Islamic history, philosophy and law were constructed during the imperial phase started to seem static, especially in the face of former Muslim powers coming under waves of western imperialism.

Islamic Scholars and leaders appealed for a return to the basics in an attempt to reform Islam and Muslim societies that they now thought had been ‘adulterated’ by their long imperialist exposure to the rituals of other religions.

The hadith still played the primary role in this respect, but many reformist scholars and leaders now chose the more conservative hadiths to transform Islamic law into a harsher article of faith and legislation, believing these would help Muslim societies ‘retain their true identities’ under western imperialism.

That said, there were also reformists who found Imperialist Islamic dictates to have become static and decadent and they wanted to ‘modernise’ Islam by trying to adopt modern western laws and technology.

But since both these strains of Muslim reformists continued appealing to the nostalgia of Islamic imperialism’s heyday, and to the more mythical narratives of ‘perfect Islam’ under the four ‘Rightly Guided Caliphs,’ the historical and legislative doctrines of Islam based on the conservative reformists’ views managed to bag a more attentive audience in Muslim societies. It is out of these doctrines that concepts like Political Islam would eventually emerge. A concept whose more retarded strains are what we now call Islamic militancy and ‘Islamo-fascism.’

Interestingly, Islamic reformists too continued to draw their legislative, political and historical conclusions from eighth- and ninth-century hearsay accounts as if modern society was still responding to medieval impulses.

Consequently, even today many Muslim historians and lawmakers carry on defining the shariah and Islamic history using a history constructed from memorised and backwardly projected accounts of the Prophet.
Most progressive Muslim scholars however, have pleaded for a more investigative look at Islam’s early history without the use of eighth- and ninth-century perspectives. To do that they beseech the need to be much more cautious about memorised accounts based on simple hearsay. They say that the hadith should be used watchfully and, perhaps, only when it supports or expands the teachings of the Qur’an and not as a legislative response to the political and social dynamics of modernity that can only leave Muslim societies hanging in a limbo between mythical historical narratives and modern material impulses.

Nadeem F. Paracha is a cultural critic and senior columnist for Dawn Newspaper and Dawn.com.
 
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I think following are the reasons

1. Neglect of modern education, too many people studying in madrasas
2. Most of the muslim world is led by dictators / authoritarian rulers
3. Muslims living on their past glory, but not bothering about the present world.
4.Too much importance on religion and not questioning religion
5. Muslims insecure about religion in the light of sciences ( they dont even teach darwins theory of evolution )
 
I think following are the reasons

1. Neglect of modern education, too many people studying in madrasas
2. Most of the muslim world is led by dictators / authoritarian rulers
3. Muslims living on their past glory, but not bothering about the present world.
4.Too much importance on religion and not questioning religion
5. Muslims insecure about religion in the light of sciences ( they dont even teach darwins theory of evolution )
That is actually a plus. Here is why...

Secret Cities
In response to the immense challenge of the unfolding East-West arms race, Stalin decided to create dozens of centers of research and development excellence in the USSR. Some of these so-called "Naukograds" [Science Towns] were "Akademgorodok" [Academic Cities} devoted to basic research. Others were secret cities which were to provide the technical foundation for Soviet military technology - sputniks, long-range missiles, thermonuclear warheads of extreme yield. Among the work performed in such places were chemical, biological and nuclear weapons research and manufacturing, enrichment of plutonium, space research, and military intelligence work.
A dictatorship can actually accelerate scientific development since the dictator by force can direct as much resources, human or otherwise, as necessary to achieve a goal. The American moon landing project is similar. Iraq under Saddam Hussein is also another example of accelerated scientific and technological progress.
 
That is actually a plus. Here is why...

Secret Cities
A dictatorship can actually accelerate scientific development since the dictator by force can direct as much resources, human or otherwise, as necessary to achieve a goal. The American moon landing project is similar. Iraq under Saddam Hussein is also another example of accelerated scientific and technological progress.
American moon landing is an example of dictatorial directions? Who was the dictator ruling the USA in 1960s? If your philosophy is correct, than the international scientific journals should have been stuffed with the research being conducted by the Scientists from the countries ruled by the dictatorial regimes; Arab countries? African countries? Latin American countries? and finally from our beloved Pakistan? In contrast to that, we see almost 99% of scientific contribution was made by the USA and Europe (Germany is an exception) in the past 200 years. Even Russia can not be given as an example of Dictatorship as they had a Politbureau and same is also true for China.

If you want to give an example of Dictatorship, give the example of Germany. But again, all their inventions and innovations were more directed towards the destruction rather than for the betterment of the human beings. Very little biomedical research was conducted by the Germans, and the little that was done comes more under the crimes against the humanity (using inmates as experimental animals) than the scientific research.
 
I think following are the reasons

1. Neglect of modern education, too many people studying in madrasas
2. Most of the muslim world is led by dictators / authoritarian rulers
3. Muslims living on their past glory, but not bothering about the present world.
4.Too much importance on religion and not questioning religion
5. Muslims insecure about religion in the light of sciences ( they dont even teach darwins theory of evolution )
They are small factors, the real thing is, corruption. Before finally moving to the States, I have worked in the so-called Centers of Excellences, and Research Institutes. Dr. Atta ur Rahman (the Ex-Chairman Higher Education Commission) was my immediate supervisor. It is better that I keep my mouth shut about the operations and the professional integrity of the 90% so-called Scientist living and working in Pakistan.

The only place where research is being conducted with some ethics and integrity is the Aga Khan University. My stay there was a pleasant surprise for me and I left the country on the advice of my Professors there. They told me clearly that if I was serious about doing Science and wanted to make my career in it, I must leave Pakistan.
 

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