Why Does the Muslim World Lag in Science?

[Durran3]

I agree with you wholeheartly, besides the part of religion in our lives. Even though I am atheist, I still believe religion is important, based on looking at my two young daughters.

First, strickly looking at my daughter i am making this analysis. To teach them any sence of our culture, I have to teach them about religion, to my dismay. So one can conclude that if there was no religion, one cannot find a cohesive culture. The eastern culture are so imbedded with religion that one cannot escape. For example all the holidays are based on some religious aspect. The classical dance and music classes I sent them to, are based on religious overtone. So, I disagree with you that values of culture can be transfered to your children without any religious overtone.

And to answer your question on this regards, people are changing there views with new ones, but they are doing it thru religion. That is why denomination exist in religion today. If religion was so perfect what would be the purpose of having different denomination?

You have a very excellent point indeed that society will force you to learn about religion but i guess that's not entirely a bad thing as long as you keep it safe and refrain your kids about knowing things like death, Hell and all the other dogma to install fear into them. Your kids will eventually grow and will have the freedom to choose what they so desire eventually.

One of my biggest criticism is religious schools. Were it up to me I'd put a complete ban on religious schools. Now i am not against kids learning about religion in schools, i think they should because its an important part of our society and in general is an important aspect of life that one can not escape whether you are religious or not. I would put it more in line of literature, history and studying culture. Nonetheless what i am truly against is labeling children, like the video i posted above says a four year old Muslim kid is no different than a four year old Jewish Kid or a four year old Sikh kid because they are to young to know what their views on each religion are. They should make their own choice when they eventually grow up but labeling them simply because they happen to be born in a place like Pakistan to Muslim parents doesn't automatically make them Muslims, or a child born in Columbia to Catholic Christian parents doesn't make him a Catholic from the get go.

The Way the faith schools are run share an idea of segregation, instead of bringing different children together they label them from the start and tell them of the consequences of what will happen to those who leave their faith or to those who don't share the same faith as you. Its like saying 'right now they (those who don't share our beliefs) are fine, but soon they will burn in hell and we'll have exclusive access to the gates of paradise, so we just have wait for that time'. This kind of thinking itself is fundamentally violent by nature because of segregation. Labeling people means you are putting people in groups, by putting people in groups you are thus creating differences, differences leads to hatred and hatred leads to violence, its a step by step process.

Now like i said i think teaching children about religion is fine but God forbid if i open any holy scriptures to teach my kids about Morality and humanism. That's the last place i would look for moral suggestions, that should come from the parents, simple things like do good, setting a good moral example by being a good parent is far better than all the scary elements like burning in hell for eternity in my opinion.

 

[jeypore]

Now like i said i think teaching children about religion is fine but God forbid if i open any holy scriptures to teach my kids about Morality and humanism. That's the last place i would look for moral suggestions, that should come from the parents, simple things like do good, setting a good moral example by being a good parent is far better than all the scary elements like burning in hell for eternity in my opinion.

Are you not raising yourself to bigger question then. If teaching your children thru your morals, but how did your morals were formed? It was partly from your parents and surroundings, and from Religion. I agree with you that moral should not be taught thru scripture, but those written language is imbedded in our enviroment that one finds hard to escape from.

And here is the most interesting question of them all. Even if one does not believe in any form of Religion, but he is in some form or the other has to believe in higher being for ones moral, isn't it. If one cannot ponder on force of good, then how can we formulate our moral from.

 

[Spitfighter]

jeypore, one need not believe in religion in order to believe in god, at least not anymore. I do agree partly with what you have said though, religion and culture are inseparable in our part of the world, thus it makes sense to teach kids about religion in order for them to understand the culture. But the way I see it, and here I agree with Durran3, that teaching ones kids ethics and morals is the parent's responsibility, religion does not come into the equation here.

The human mind has a very limited capacity to understand the world around us, so understanding who or what god is beyond the scope of our imagination. Thus religion should be a personal decision, not the parents or the community's decision. IMO one cannot be taught to have faith, it comes from within.

I think religion has served its purpose of inculcating values in men back in the day, however I feel its time is up and does nothing but divide people. I wonder why people think they need rituals to 'honor' god, all that matters is what's in the heart.

 

[Durran3]

Are you not raising yourself to bigger question then. If teaching your children thru your morals, but how did your morals were formed? It was partly from your parents and surroundings, and from Religion. I agree with you that moral should not be taught thru scripture, but those written language is imbedded in our enviroment that one finds hard to escape from.

And here is the most interesting question of them all. Even if one does not believe in any form of Religion, but he is in some form or the other has to believe in higher being for ones moral, isn't it. If one cannot ponder on force of good, then how can we formulate our moral from.

Morals have nothing to do with scripture and no human would live in a society that doesn't fulfil its basic moral obligations. 90% of the Scandenavian countries are Agnostic and far more peaceful people that contribute the largest in terms of man power to help other countries around the world. There is no evidence out there which says morals and religion go hand in hand. Millions and millions of people in Russia are atheist infact more than half of them are Agnostic since the late 20th century doesn't mean there was a collapse in morality there.

Going by your logic you only do good things because you Fear a higher power? I personally find that kind of sad don't you think? that people do good only because they 'Fear' a higher being... I'll give you my example, I try to do good things because it makes me Feel better about myself and it helps me make more friends who would do the same for me, its something thats quiet easy to understand really. I don't do good because i fear something, i do it because i know its better for me, my surroundings and the community in general. Teaching your kids simple things like how would you feel if someone did something to you that was bad is a much better way to teach them about morals and quiet frankly i don't see any religion here. Its pretty much human rational thought and common sense. Humans in general are amazing creatures, but we tend to give more credit to extarnal metaphysical elements than to our selves and how we've evolved into a rational society. 'Thou shall not kill' quiet frankly is pure common sense than it is religous, no one wants to live in a society where people kill each other

The way we live today isn't formulated by religion's, its changed because of the renaissance, because of technology, because of rationality, because of science. Religion just tends to get alot more credit than it really deserves

Just a quote from mwillet.org

"We are naturally moral because we have developed complex instincts to help us in social situations. These instincts work as long as we allow them instead of burying them in external threats and admonishments. The ten commandments do not help us discover ultimate morality. We all know it when we see it. The way to get people to behave in a moral way is to trust them, to integrate them and to allow them to develop fully as individuals in a caring society. People will only act as amoral criminals if they fall into a criminal subculture, are mentally deficient in morality (rare conditions do exist that cause these problems) or are in a situation in which crime really does pay in a way that can become a life choice."

 

[jeypore]

Durran3
Humans in general are amazing creatures, but we tend to give more credit to extarnal metaphysical elements than to our selves and how we've evolved into a rational society. 'Thou shall not kill' quiet frankly is pure common sense than it is religous, no one wants to live in a society where people kill each other

Even though we agree on lot of things, but your perception of how morality is formed is different then mine. Interestingly enough the statement above were external metapyhsical elements does not play alot on human life is false. For example when a self-scrifices bomber explodes a bomb, his morality of doing so is based on a cause. And that morality simply came from the enviroment that he lived in embedded with religious overtone for doing so.

The way we live today isn't formulated by religion's, its changed because of the renaissance, because of technology, because of rationality, because of science. Religion just tends to get alot more credit than it really deserves

These things (Renaissance, Technology and Science) becomes irrelevant, if the decision was made solely on "good" and "evil". Again, based on Good and Evil decisions, the religious overtone of that particular society takes it over. On your logic, you give humans to much credit, they are more of an sheep that follows. Even though I am an agnostic, now I am sounding like a priest. Thanks alot Durran.

 

[jeypore]

that teaching ones kids ethics and morals is the parent's responsibility, religion does not come into the equation here.

I disagree with you on the above statement. It is true that Parents are responsible for the morality of there kids and every parents should strive for it, but where I disagree is the outside enviroment/uncontrollable situation teachs alot to your kids. For example if your mother-in-law teaches your child a prayer befor going to sleep and you wanted your children to choose there on path on metaphysical aspect (like Mr. Durran says), are you going to tell your mother-in-law to stop. The answer is clearly no.

That is my whole argument, that the religious overtone of the society tends to go hand and hand with morality. And the perception of that morality creates culture. Mr. Durran is making me into a priest and you are making me into Metaphysics Professor.

 

[TruthSeeker]

My question for you philosophers is this:

Why does the Muslim world lag in science????

 

[muse]

While I'm not a philosopher, Epistemology! (science of KNOWLEDGE) eHow do you know what you know, how do you justify what you think you know?

In the rest of the world, Sciences, fields of knowledge have developed without reference to a religious science - Muslim so called Scholars insist that any science that does not refer to religious science, is not science but Godlessness --- this should go a long way towards helping you understand why the Muslim world lags in science

 

[Spitfighter]

I disagree with you on the above statement. It is true that Parents are responsible for the morality of there kids and every parents should strive for it, but where I disagree is the outside enviroment/uncontrollable situation teachs alot to your kids. For example if your mother-in-law teaches your child a prayer befor going to sleep and you wanted your children to choose there on path on metaphysical aspect (like Mr. Durran says), are you going to tell your mother-in-law to stop. The answer is clearly no.

That is my whole argument, that the religious overtone of the society tends to go hand and hand with morality. And the perception of that morality creates culture. Mr. Durran is making me into a priest and you are making me into Metaphysics Professor.

Its true that children learn a lot from external influences, I sure as hell did D). With regard to your example, if my future mother in law wanted my child to say a little prayer before he/she slept, then I'd be O.K with it, children must respect their elders and especially their family, all of what they say is with the best of intentions, might not always be correct but out of love and respect they should obey. This is what parents should teach their kids. should they tell them that praying in a certain fashion at a certain time in certain weather conditions is what god wants?, no way.

what does a prayer have to do with god? what does religion have to do with god? can a priest tell you what life is? can he tell you why you are you?, why your life is your life? ask him what your purpose in life is.

god doesn't care if you sing a few hymns, go to church, dance, hop/skip. These are all rituals.

god and science don't have to be at opposite ends, science is how we understand the universe that the 'force of everything' created. God is beyond our imagination, no one can tell you who or what it is, and what it wants from you. Evolution need not be at odds with god, maybe that's how the force decided to go about things, they say humans instinctively work together, build societies and so on and so forth, obviously, evolution! it all adds up. So while we did evolve into an intelligent rational species, we need not have done independent of god's good grace.

The way I see it, we should live in harmony and explore this curious gift, live out our days doing what we love, doing it with passion and sincerity, respect for our fellow man for he too is just as alive as we are, respect all forms of life. religion need not teach us these things, with faith in god, these things are implicit, its so obvious, no one needs to have a designated day and time to pray, faith is a permanent concept and one need not profess it through some random ritual.

But why am I saying all this, partly in response to what you and Durran 3 have been talking about, but mostly I just got carried away, my bad

my point is simply that although societies do calibrate their morality w.r.t to their religion, this is no longer necessary. It should and in all eventuality will change in the future.

What benefits has religion brought to India for example? its held us back all these years, its like gun powder for our politicians, the people of course are cannon fodder.

 

[WarProfessor]

My question for you philosophers is this:

Why does the Muslim world lag in science????

I guess Its due to the Muslims way of practicing Islam. Modern science demands quite extensive continuous energy which can be easily distracted by 5 times/day of praying practice. I could only imagine if an individual is extremely religious and the most important thing in life would be the religion itself and Muslims may be more apathetic to all the rest of secular business happening around them.

Just a secular wild guess. ;-)

 

[Developereo]

One of the most central beliefs in Islam is that this life is only a temporary preparatory stage for the ultimate eternal life, after death, which is the true life for a Muslim. Thus, a true Muslim should devote his earthly life to prepare for the afterlife.

On one level, this is a good philosophy in that it discourages materialism and encourages altruism and 'good deeds' to earn points for the afterlife.

But it has been taken to an extreme by many people to simply retreat from life and view any non-religious activity as a waste of time.

 

[gambit]

Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. -- Denis Diderot (1713-1784)

 

[WarProfessor]

Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. -- Denis Diderot (1713-1784)

I do not care whether a country is democratic, authoritarian, totalitarian, a monarch or a dictatorship, so long as I have the control of their money.

-- War Professor

 

[Patriot]

I do not care whether a country is democratic, authoritarian, totalitarian, a monarch or a dictatorship, so long as I have the control of their money.

-- War Professor

fits for USA

 

[Arsalan]

Its true that children learn a lot from external influences, I sure as hell did D). With regard to your example, if my future mother in law wanted my child to say a little prayer before he/she slept, then I'd be O.K with it, children must respect their elders and especially their family, all of what they say is with the best of intentions, might not always be correct but out of love and respect they should obey. This is what parents should teach their kids. should they tell them that praying in a certain fashion at a certain time in certain weather conditions is what god wants?, no way.

what does a prayer have to do with god? what does religion have to do with god? can a priest tell you what life is? can he tell you why you are you?, why your life is your life? ask him what your purpose in life is.

god doesn't care if you sing a few hymns, go to church, dance, hop/skip. These are all rituals.

god and science don't have to be at opposite ends, science is how we understand the universe that the 'force of everything' created. God is beyond our imagination, no one can tell you who or what it is, and what it wants from you. Evolution need not be at odds with god, maybe that's how the force decided to go about things, they say humans instinctively work together, build societies and so on and so forth, obviously, evolution! it all adds up. So while we did evolve into an intelligent rational species, we need not have done independent of god's good grace.

The way I see it, we should live in harmony and explore this curious gift, live out our days doing what we love, doing it with passion and sincerity, respect for our fellow man for he too is just as alive as we are, respect all forms of life. religion need not teach us these things, with faith in god, these things are implicit, its so obvious, no one needs to have a designated day and time to pray, faith is a permanent concept and one need not profess it through some random ritual.

But why am I saying all this, partly in response to what you and Durran 3 have been talking about, but mostly I just got carried away, my bad

my point is simply that although societies do calibrate their morality w.r.t to their religion, this is no longer necessary. It should and in all eventuality will change in the future.

What benefits has religion brought to India for example? its held us back all these years, its like gun powder for our politicians, the people of course are cannon fodder.

well if you can manage some time to learn the basic principles of Islam then it will help you,
you rightly said that GOd do not care if you go to church and sing a few hymes, this is what said, he is not effected by any of our deeds but still wants us to do some thing that helps the mankind. so Allah want us to help our self and whole man kind, this is as simple as it gets,
as it is Ramzan so let us just quote it as an example, Allah gets no benefits from our fasting, it is not that (GodForbad) he cannot provide us with food, surely his resources and endless, but yes this does make us realize what is the pain of those who do not have fod to eat, you know it very well, in india and even in Pakistan how many people sleep without dinner leave alone the african ststes where million die due to starvaion. can you imagin how it feel to die because you have nothing to eat, just skip two meals and you will start feeling the pain but still you wont die until you have nothing to eat for some four to six days, can one think what are the feelings of a mother who see her child die because of starvation,,,

on medical side, mediacl science have proved that human habits are characteristics of his body cells. these cell tnd to change in 25 30 days time, so if one strickly follows the ramazan laws he can get rid of his bad habits. you must have know many people who smoke and say that they cannot live without it, i know many and also a lot of those who quit smoking without any problem in ramazan,, and sadly nough i also know many who presist to smoke right after the are done wiht fasting in evening, it is for them to deceide wheter they want to change for a good or for bad!

well i gues i got it all a it off topic but it was just to make people realize that Islam do present the perfect way of living, it ws the same 1400 years ago, it is the same now and will remain so for ever,
now if Muslim do not act upon the instruction then it is fault of them and not the religion,,

thankyou for tolerating me,
regards!