Why do people believe that Western media is biased against Muslims?

[Muradk]

Peace, propaganda and the promise Land.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696&q=peace+propaganda.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Unfortuantely the video is not opening.

Could you give the gist?

 

[ST1976]

Well that is one view and a very important one.

That is the socio political one. I am sure there are greater manifestations than this alone.

salim i wasn’t mean to say anything about Muslim or any particular religion. we know how hindu and muslim live in india and we don’t have to prove this to anyone. i was just trying to explain no democratic world will like to drop bombs on children. there is no bravery to kill kids studying in schools. no democratic world will support those who kill civilians.

but if something like this is happening somewhere, there is a reason. this is easy to say US or Israel or any western country is doing wrong. everyone say, i also say the same thing. but there are some reasons behind all these happenings. and the reasons,……… people doing all these are fighting for their survival. they have to fight because they are left with limited options.

 

[sigatoka]

i was just trying to explain no democratic world will like to drop bombs on children. there is no bravery to kill kids studying in schools. no democratic world will support those who kill civilians.

but if something like this is happening somewhere, there is a reason. this is easy to say US or Israel or any western country is doing wrong. everyone say, i also say the same thing. but there are some reasons behind all these happenings. and the reasons,……… people doing all these are fighting for their survival. they have to fight because they are left with limited options.

So being democratic rich and heavily armed makes it justified to rip apart apart children, women and the elderly?

Israel is not bombing these people for survival, if anything Hezbolla is fighting for the right of the Lebanese people to survive against Israeli war crimes.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I wonder if the Hizb is fighting for the rights of Lebanon.

Before the kidnapping, Lebanon was on the way to progress. The kidnapping brought about this misery.

What war crimes are we talking about? The US also bombed and caused casualties in Serbia etc. It was part of the campaign. War cannot be without casualties. Even in the Iraq War, cities have been bombed. In Balochistan, air strikes and artillery fire have been done on civil area.

Wherever one perceives is the enemy, one has to take action.

Innocents die but that is the dirtiest and inhuman part of any war.

 

[sigatoka]

What war crimes are we talking about? The US also bombed and caused casualties in Serbia etc. It was part of the campaign. War cannot be without casualties. Even in the Iraq War, cities have been bombed.

Civilian deaths are acceptable when deliberate efforts are made not to target them, and when targetting dual use facilities the military benefit must be great enough to compensate for the civilan deaths.

Bombing bottle factories, destorying hundred upon hundreds of houses, bombing civilian apartments and deliberatley trying to inflict collective punishment is unacceptable morally in war.

The U.S. campaign in Serbia is not at all comparable to what Israel is doing. The original gulf war campaign had certain operations which were suspect but the overall war was conducted well.

The current Iraq conflict has recently degenerated (in terms of conduct for war) because of frustration on the part of the U.S. more than anything else.

The Israeli action have been pre-meditated and cynical attempt to clear out southern lebanon of civilians and exact collective punishment.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I am afraid that is an idealist way of looking at war.

What is happening is immoral but then war itself is immoral.

 

[ST1976]

So being democratic rich and heavily armed makes it justified to rip apart apart children, women and the elderly?

Israel is not bombing these people for survival, if anything Hezbolla is fighting for the right of the Lebanese people to survive against Israeli war crimes.

i repeat, I ALSO SAY DROPPING BOMBS ON KIDS, WOMEN AND CIVILIANS IS WRONG AND AGAINST HUMANITY. there is no doubt, but just think what Israel can get by killing civilians and why US is supporting them? why West say Hezbolla is terrorist and Israel is "not bad". why?????????? no one want to do like this but why US and other western countries are supporting all these.

this is not hidden that US and other western countries dropped bombs on hospitals also during the Iraq war. not only western countries but also Japan was involved with all these in Iraq and also china didn’t oppose them. why???????

who will say dropping bombs on hospitals and on civilians is right? who???? no one will say because this is wrong and against humanity. but why all of them are doing like this???????? try to understand. THEY ARE SCARED OF THOSE TERRORISTS WHO ARE DREAMING TO DESTROY THEM.

 

[ST1976]

Civilian deaths are acceptable when deliberate efforts are made not to target them, and when targetting dual use facilities the military benefit must be great enough to compensate for the civilan deaths.

Bombing bottle factories, destorying hundred upon hundreds of houses, bombing civilian apartments and deliberatley trying to inflict collective punishment is unacceptable morally in war.

The U.S. campaign in Serbia is not at all comparable to what Israel is doing. The original gulf war campaign had certain operations which were suspect but the overall war was conducted well.

The current Iraq conflict has recently degenerated (in terms of conduct for war) because of frustration on the part of the U.S. more than anything else.

The Israeli action have been pre-meditated and cynical attempt to clear out southern lebanon of civilians and exact collective punishment.

your this reply clearly indicate that you have very good knowledge and i guess you might be a senior journalist. i just wanted to say we would try to think something more than just discussing civilians are being killed. and rest, i think this topic requires more discussion.thanks

 

[MrConcerned]

Disregarding civilian safety when it was avoidable is competible behaviour.

However, so is hiding among civilians, de facto using them as human shields, is just as bad, if not worse.

I'm not sure the first happened, although it probably did, while the second certainly happened.

I think that a right-thinking person must see that Hezbollah comes out rather worse in this. I don't think Israel has no reason to target civilians, although it may at times be indifferent to their safety.

 

[sigatoka]

Disregarding civilian safety when it was avoidable is competible behaviour.

1. However, so is hiding among civilians, de facto using them as human shields, is just as bad, if not worse.

2.I'm not sure the first happened, although it probably did, while the second certainly happened.

3. I think that a right-thinking person must see that Hezbollah comes out rather worse in this. I don't think Israel has no reason to target civilians, although it may at times be indifferent to their safety.

1. That has not happened and there is no proof of that, the mass graves however are still fresh with the corpses of children, women and the elderly. Do you want some bones?

2. Lol, its the other way round mate. There is no proof of your human shield accusation (apart from that Israel has said it) while the civilians are dead and documented.


3. Your argument sounds suspiciously similar to Al-Qaeda's in trying to justify the slaugther of civilians. They said that U.S. was responsible for the destruction of the trade centre with their foreign policy. Maybe you agree.

Israel says it has no reason in targetting civilians, it indeed may not have any reasons however that doesnt change the fact that over 400 civilians are dead and hundreds of thousands displaced with their homes razed.

 

[MrConcerned]

With all respect, sir, if you could view news more widely,

you will find that there are pictures of videos of Hezbollah firing rockets from civilian areas

you will find that there are pictures and videos of Hezbollah using ambulances and civilian transports to transport their fighters

you will find that there have been recorded eyewitness accounts of Lebanese that Hezbollah have gone near their houses to fire weapons inviting retaliation and even killing villagers who try to leave their homes, forcing them to stay.

I am nothing like AQ, I hope you don't insinuate this. We are discussing after all.

Yes 400 civilians are dead, let me first say that I think this is very regrettable and I hope the world community forks out money, including Israel to cover reconstruction. I also hope that after Qana and incidents like it, there would be fair investigation and if found guilting of breaching procedures, the person(s) in the military would be prosecuted.

On the other hand, if Israel had targeted civilians it wouldn't be killing 400. It would be on a magnitude of 100. We also don't know how many Hezbollah are dead. Still it could have been indifferent, and that's atrocious no doubt.

I understand how the bombing of Lebanon may affect you. I just hope we can proceed to discuss this with openess and fairness.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

To be frank, both sides are immoral.

Hence, justification is not feasible for either.

 

[Bull]

Israel says it has no reason in targetting civilians, it indeed may not have any reasons however that doesnt change the fact that over 400 civilians are dead and hundreds of thousands displaced with their homes razed.

In a war scenario 400 dieing over a period of 20 days is way too low mad: ), 3000 died in less than half an hour on 9/11, more than 200 died in less than half an hour on 7/11 and so on.

 

[Sid]

400 too low? I'm sure you're talking with regards to cluster bombs being used? I'm sure that people here understand what 'precision guided munitions' and 'missiles' are.

So, keeping that in mind that they are being used extensively instead of cluster bombs, 750 civilians to be exact (Lebanese government released estimate) in a little over three weeks, is still a LOT of casualties. Either IAF pilots have forgotten how to target/shoot (which I doubt, given their excellence) or it was all deliberate.