Why China will chose India over Pakistan

[Developereo]

I hate to say this as a Pakistani but, in the long term, I see China abandoning Pakistan in favor of India. The reason is simple: Paksitan is pursuing the exact same failed policy with China that it did with the US.

Pakistan/China cooperation is strictly limited to military and governmental levels. There is very little people-to-people contact and almost no cultural exchange. The relationship is one of 'colleagues, not friends'.

India, on the other hand, is using its soft power to build a positive image amongst the Chinese masses. As China becomes more democratic, it will tilt more and more towards India.

This is exactly what happened in the US. While the Pakistan military enjoyed a cozy relationship with the Pentagon, India was busy buying politcians and working on a grass-roots campaign within the US.

Clueless as ever, the Pakistani government is pursuing exactly the same myopic and limited relationship with China. And there is no effort from the Chinese side to expand the relationship either.

The other main factor is that, instead of being a strong self-sufficient ally, Pakistan is becoming more and more like a destitute friend who needs to be propped up. Right now, China is facing subtle resistance and resentment from the West and it sees Pakistan as a symbolic gateway to the resource-rich Muslim world. Once China is firmly in the driver's seat, will they want to associate themselves with a perpetually sick friend like Pakistan because, let's face it, the feudal-military alliance leading Paksitan has absolutely no interest in a stable, strong Pakistan. They are strictly interested in a short term strategy of lining their own coffers while they are in power and then running away to some foreign country.

 

[RescueRanger]

I hate to say this as a Pakistani but, in the long term, I see China abandoning Pakistan in favor of India. The reason is simple: Paksitan is pursuing the exact same failed policy with China that it did with the US.

Pakistan/China cooperation is strictly limited to military and governmental levels. There is very little people-to-people contact and almost no cultural exchange. The relationship is strictly one of 'colleagues, not friends'.

India, on the other hand, is using its soft power to build a positive image amongst the Chinese masses. As China becomes more democratic, it will tilt more and more towards India.

This is exactly what happened in the US. While the Pakistan military enjoyed a cozy relationship with the Pentagon, India was busy buying politcians and working on a grass-roots campaign within the US.

Clueless as ever, the Pakistani government is pursuing exactly the same myopic and limited relationship with China. And there is no effort from the Chinese side to expand the relationship either.

The other main factor is that, instead of being a strong self-sufficient ally, Pakistan is becoming more and more like a destitute friend who needs to be propped up. Right now, China is facing subtle resistance and resentment from the West. Once China is firmly in the driver's seat, will they want to associate themselves with a perpetually sick friend like Pakistan because, let's face it, the feudal-military alliance leading Paksitan has absolutely no interest in a stable, strong Pakistan. They are strictly interested in a short term strategy of lining their own coffers while they are in power and then running away to some foreign country.

The relationship is strictly one of 'colleagues, not friends'.

I suggest you run a search for Zhou Rong "Chinese Guang Ming Daily" Islamabad and read some of his reports on Pakistan and his strategic analysis on Pak-China.

 

[Developereo]

I suggest you run a search for Zhou Rong "Chinese Guang Ming Daily" Islamabad and read some of his reports on Pakistan and his strategic analysis on Pak-China.

Here's what I mean by 'friendship':
The US, Europe and Australia import hundreds of thousand of Indian workers and most of them stay to become permanent residents. Australia went so far as to hold travelling road shows within India and practically beg Indians to migrate to Australia. They even set up a fake "student" visa program so half a million Indians with zero skills or money could migrate to Australia pretending to be hairdressing students. Similar schemes are in place in US/Europe to intake large Indian migration. Germany instituted a green card program specifically to facilitate Indian migration. The Middle Eastern countries employ twice as many Indians as Pakistanis. All these countries regularly showcase Indian culture in their mainstream media. These are all signs of true friendship and a desire to form a long-term cultural relationship.

There is absolutely no comparison with the Pakistan/China 'relationship'. How many Chinese cultural shows do you see on Pakistan TV? Does the average Chinese person even know the difference between Pakistan and India? They have probably heard of Bollywood, but do they know anything about Pakistani culture? If they see some Pakistani cuisine, will they call it Pakistani or Indian? How many Pakistani students study in China and vice versa? With trillions of dollars in its coffers, does China sponsor Chines cultural programs within Pakistan? Do Pakistani children learn Chinese as a second language?

 

[IBRIS]

China declined to extend a billions Dollars bailout by not coming through with that aid, China pushed Islamabad into the arms of the International Monetary Fund and its policy strictures.

China has as big a stake as anyone else in Pakistan's future. China has cultivated the country as a counterweight to India. As India's relation will improve in coming decades with China, need for Pakistan will fade away to cooperation to strategic interests. China will never take over the roll of US keeping Pakistan in it's grips of influence.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Developereo, can you give an example when two giants lived side by side and that also peacefully ??

 

[TaimiKhan]

China declined to extend a billions Dollars bailout by not coming through with that aid, China pushed Islamabad into the arms of the International Monetary Fund and its policy strictures.

China has as big a stake as anyone else in Pakistan's future. China has cultivated the country as a counterweight to India. As India's relation will improve in coming decades with China, need for Pakistan will fade away to cooperation to strategic interests. China will never take over the roll of US keeping Pakistan in it's grips of influence.

China did the right thing by rejecting the aid thing, as they know where it will end.

What they have come up is joint projects, they are more interested in developing local infrastructure compared to giving money blindly and see it sink in a black hole. They have invested Billions in projects inside Pakistan, hundreds of students have been accommodated for PhD degrees and higher education, so this is their strategy for us, fortunately and unfortunately a good one though, as aid would not have helped us much, rather such joint projects help a lot, bringing in jobs, revenues and development.

And as for India & China, well as said above, show when and how two giants lived peacefully together, especially in such world where the future wars are gonna be for resources.

 

[Developereo]

Developereo, can you give an example when two giants lived side by side and that also peacefully ??

I am not saying China will love India, but they will learn to coexist 'peacefully', the same as China and Russia coexist 'peacefully'.

It means China will be more responsive to Indian 'concerns' about Pakistan. If they have to chose between Chinese economic interests and Pakistan, they will drop Pakistan. They may hate India's guts, but they will not sacrifice their interests to save Pakistan. If Pakistan was strong economically and militarily, it could stand shoulder-to-shoulder with China in its fight against India. But we are not. We are a poor country with a basket-case economy that continually needs to be propped up.

I am not saying we should abandon China, but I see the same attitude of helpless dependence that we had towards the US, then towards Saudi Arabia, and now towards China.

Self-reliance and a cooperative alliance with like-minded moderate countries like Turkey (or even Iran) is not on the cards because the feudal-military has no interest in a long term strategy that involves hard work and a consistent, stable strategy. Iran may not be moderate by most people's definition but, unlike the Arabs, they are at least trying to be self-sufficient and decide their own foreign policy.

And as for India & China, well as said above, show when and how two giants lived peacefully together, especially in such world where the future wars are gonna be for resources.

I agree that China will try to use Pakistan just to prod India. Just as the US used Pakistan to prod the Soviet satellitle India, and Saudi Arabia used Pakistan to prod Iran. In the former two cases, our interests coincide, so we don't mind being 'used', but Zia's sellout to the Saudis has utterly ruined Pakistan for generations to come.

At some point, we have to find leaders who don't sell us out in exchange for a healthy commission on foreign aid.

 

[Ishan]

Indian Prime Minister Visit ot Saudi Arabia Many Months back where the Entire Saudi Cabinet Came to Welcome Manmohan Singh Showed India's Growing Importance and Increasing Economic Clout even though Saudi Arabia was considered as a Very Close Pak Ally

Many in Pakistan did not Like the Outcome of Saudi Visit

Similary China-India will also have Close ties ..Currently China has an Upper hand but as India become Powerfull and Most Important will be to secure a UNSC Permanent Seat and Agni-5 ICBM Targeted towards it..China's Stance wud change

 

[indian_warrior]

China did the right thing by rejecting the aid thing, as they know where it will end.

What they have come up is joint projects, they are more interested in developing local infrastructure compared to giving money blindly and see it sink in a black hole. They have invested Billions in projects inside Pakistan, hundreds of students have been accommodated for PhD degrees and higher education, so this is their strategy for us, fortunately and unfortunately a good one though, as aid would not have helped us much, rather such joint projects help a lot, bringing in jobs, revenues and development.

And as for India & China, well as said above, show when and how two giants lived peacefully together, especially in such world where the future wars are gonna be for resources.

The highlighted part is unbelievable. China may be interested in getting raw material.

China has vast land and dead cheap labor in entire universe. It is not economical for them to invest in factories in Pakistan.

- Warrior

 

[TaimiKhan]

I am not saying China will love India, but they will learn to coexist 'peacefully', the same as China and Russia coexist 'peacefully'.

It means China will be more responsive to Indian 'concerns' about Pakistan. If they have to chose between Chinese economic interests and Pakistan, they will drop Pakistan. They may hate India's guts, but they will not sacrifice their interests to save Pakistan. If Pakistan was strong economically and militarily, it could stand shoulder-to-shoulder with China in its fight against India. But we are not. We are a poor country with a basket-case economy that continually needs to be propped up.

I am not saying we should abandon China, but I see the same attitude of helpless dependence that we had towards the US, then towards Saudi Arabia, and now towards China.

Self-reliance and a cooperative alliance with like-minded moderate countries like Turkey (or even Iran) is not on the cards because the feudal-military has no interest in a long term strategy that involves hard work and a consistent, stable strategy. Iran may not be moderate by most people's definition but, unlike the Arabs, they are at least trying to be self-sufficient and decide their own foreign policy.

yes, what is important is self reliance as well as diversification, but that is where our bad luck is, we have no politicians, no leaders to have such foresight and lead us to such destination.

Instead of abandoning China, we have the greatest opportunity to avail their experience and develop ourselves, similarly joint collaboration with other countries, we have God given everything, oil, gas, solar energy, wind energy, hard working people, huge population, country with vast resources, location, sea and what not, all is needed, leaders who can propel us forward.

We need a revolution to get rid of these Oligarchs as well as foreign influence.

 

[Jazzbot]

Developereo to some extents, i do agree with ur POV, but it seems highly unlikely.. Because even though its just a Military alliance, but still Pakistan and China have gone to such a level that there is hardly any going back.. Both countries know stepping back from this level of friendship / partnership will be disastrous for both, as world is already desperately trying to crack it at any cost..

Just my 2 cents.

 

[humanfirst]

Developereo, can you give an example when two giants lived side by side and that also peacefully ??

India and china,for about 5000 years.At various point of time great empires ruled indian sub continent and china and not even once done a military adventure across border (until 1962),even though there was massive cultural exachange between two countries(for eg.budhism,chinese students coming to ancient indian universities,Shaolin temple established by an indian monk,ancient chinese influence seen today in even most southern state like kerala etc)

 

[karan.1970]

instead of so much of diplo-political posturing, much better to fix the feud between India and Pakistan and remove the need for the zero sum game..

 

[Ishan]

Clearly China Currently has an Upperhand with its Relations with India..but as India becomes more stronger, Important thing is to Get UNSC Permanent Seat, Agni-5 ICBM Targeted toward China and Create a Image of India in China's Mind as a Strong Nation ..Then things wud change and China's Prespective towards India wud be towards more Friendly

 

[Jazzbot]

Also 1 thing is, Inidans are been given lots of respect all over the world not because they love Indians or Indians are very great nation (no offense) but because of Indian economical boost, and trade opportunities with Inida.. Everyone even Soudi Arabia, started to lean more towards India who was used to be biggest Allie of Pakistan..

What Pakistan's problem is, we are more dependent at our friends in terms of Financial help and support in many other areas.. We mostly rely at them and thus we are kinda burden at them instead of a healthy friend.. So it start to annoy them after some times.. Pakistan must look at its internal issues seriously and MUST boost its economy in coming 5 - 7 years.. other wise things are going to become even more worst for Pakistan..