why china is so corrupt, I want to tell my own story about corruption

[itaskol]

it is like you are rejected by a girl but pay loads of bucks to keep her! will the relationship last long and a pleasant ending for both？
Paying bribes to get things done is the worst choice for the society! It rots the system further!

not similar to your example. as my country man, you should understand things better.
I can tell you another story with my wife.
I am rejected by the girls mother. because she thinked I was not wealthy enough to marry her daughter.
but I love her daughter (and we also want to get married asap), so what I have done: is bought a residence for her mother to get her agreement.
problem got solved fast. and I lost nothing, because after 20 oder 30 years, I probably can get the residence back.
(deep in my soul: I also feel it very sick.)

and Pay "bribes" does not mean pay cash.
the customers officer , they dont ask for cash, even they are indeed corrupt (but most of them are not stupid， if they asked for payment or cash. they are all up) legally they are still "clean". corruption is legally not always "guilty". that is also one reason, why fighting this kind of small corruption is so hard.

what people like me have to do, is neither paying cash to them. ( no one is that stupid to pay cash direct to them, but in "indirect" way)
what they received is a indirect "favor". but then what I received is a big favor.

usually to get things done faster, is find someone who has good relation with them,and then invite them for expensive dinner or something else.( you got your chance to explain to them)
in my view: it is only crime. only if the officer asked for money. or I paid money direct to them.
this kind of "little money" which costed me, can also be called as relationship devoloping cost.

your definition of "breaking laws" is very narrow.
and btw your definition of "patriotism“ is also very narrow.

- deep in my soul, I also hate and ‘love“ this situation in china.
I worked long time for shipping agency in Hamburg in Germany, and after I return to china.
It took me long time to get used of it.

 

[terranMarine]

no reason to feel guilty in that case, this kind of favor is not a crime.

 

[Snomannen]

Some teachers from Mainland China in Macau are corrupt too.

 

[shuttler]

not similar to your example. as my country man, you should understand things better.
I can tell you another story with my wife.
I am rejected by the girls mother. because she thinked I was not wealthy enough to marry her daughter.
but I love her daughter (and we also want to get married asap), so what I have done: is bought a residence for her mother to get her agreement.
problem got solved fast. and I lost nothing, because after 20 oder 30 years, I probably can get the residence back.
(deep in my soul: I also feel it very sick.)

and Pay "bribes" does not mean pay cash.
the customers officer , they dont ask for cash, even they are indeed corrupt (but most of them are not stupid， if they asked for payment or cash. they are all up) legally they are still "clean". corruption is legally not always "guilty". that is also one reason, why fighting this kind of small corruption is so hard.

what people like me have to do, is neither paying cash to them. ( no one is that stupid to pay cash direct to them, but in "indirect" way)
what they received is a indirect "favor". but then what I received is a big favor.

usually to get things done faster, is find someone who has good relation with them,and then invite them for expensive dinner or something else.( you got your chance to explain to them)
in my view: it is only crime. only if the officer asked for money. or I paid money direct to them.
this kind of "little money" which costed me, can also be called as relationship devoloping cost.

your definition of "breaking laws" is very narrow.
and btw your definition of "patriotism“ is also very narrow.

- deep in my soul, I also hate and ‘love“ this situation in china.
I worked long time for shipping agency in Hamburg in Germany, and after I return to china.
It took me long time to get used of it.

you are shameful to the core and still haggling along with your stories of a crime. Regarding your family affair with your in law and your wife, the crux of the issue is you and your wife are in love. that is what I have tried to quote as an example in my previous posting. You seem to have lost the ability to discern. You have been trying hard to find excuses to cover up your fault and crime!

all your saying about getting things done fast and efficient through bribing is criminal! And you are an unremorseful and consistent perpetrator!

As some posteres have said, you should be in JAIL!

 

[Fsjal]

India and Philippines is more CORRUPT than China.

 

[Kolaps]

China corruption is a heritage from the previous chaotic era.

It can only be eliminated by improvement of standard of living, grassroots democracy and education. It will gone automatically by the development and economy progress.

 

[PITA]

China corruption is a heritage from the previous chaotic era.

It can only be eliminated by improvement of standard of living, grassroots democracy and education. It will gone automatically by the development and economy progress.

I'm not so sure economic progress automatically eliminates corruption. I can easily point out, even in Canada, how we've had our fair share of corruption among politicians and officials.

To eliminate that problem, China should move towards a more transparent government where accountability and justice keep officials in line. I do believe they've been taking those kinds of steps. I also believe it would smooth things out with elements within Taiwan, Hong Kong, and the mainland. Also, it would improve efficiency in government.

 

[Audio]

Where is @itaskol?

After he published this thread, he kinda disapeared.

I do believe they've been taking those kinds of steps.

IMHO it's all very superficial.
I hear stories coming out of China from westerners living there how a CCP official raped a girl, and the judge ruled that because he wore a condom, there was no flesh to flesh contact (?!), so technically rape didnt happen.
Or how a princeling drunk, stoned, ran over pedestrians, when cops aprehanded him, he told who's son he is and if the dont want to get fvcked up they better let him go. Go figure.

It is easy to clamp down corruption in the case of this threads starter (ie-improving productivity of dockworkers to ship your goods on time), but how will you clamp down the corruption in the highest levels of power?

 

[PITA]

I knew about the second one but I didn't know about the first. Sounds messed up.

I'm sure there's still work to be done. Corruption has been a staple in Chinese history long long before the CCP. But stories like the guy who's father was the Deputy Chief of the Baoding PSB or that government official that was laughing during a tragic accident. Call it what you will, but even 10 or 15 years ago, there were no repercussions to these sort of events. At the very least, we can say that the CCP has acknowledged a certain amount of pressure from the public that wasn't there before. At the end of the day, it's really up to the top level to open up. Practical or not, it's the only solution.

 

[itaskol]

Where is @itaskol?

After he published this thread, he kinda disapeared

from chrismas to chinese new year. is very busy for export bussiness. almost no time to visit here.

 

[Skies]

Corruption should not be justified, but the problem occurs when the Total System is corrupted. So you have to resort into corruption to sustain in the competition. But if the System had not been corrupted, then you could have avoided such corruptions. Here the system is compelling you to resort into the corruptions, but still it should not be justified.

 

[Kolaps]

I'm not so sure economic progress automatically eliminates corruption. I can easily point out, even in Canada, how we've had our fair share of corruption among politicians and officials.

To eliminate that problem, China should move towards a more transparent government where accountability and justice keep officials in line. I do believe they've been taking those kinds of steps. I also believe it would smooth things out with elements within Taiwan, Hong Kong, and the mainland. Also, it would improve efficiency in government.

Poverty, slums, etc, tend to create a lot of pity criminals. But when the poverty and slums gone, pity criminals, most of them will be gone too. So does officials. Once a country reach certain level of prosperity and officials salary was high like Singapore. Corruption, small bribes, gifts, etc will be gone, most of it. It's human psychology.

Of course good law enforcement, transparency and high official salary are needed too.

 

[terranMarine]

Poverty, slums, etc, tend to create a lot of pity criminals. But when the poverty and slums gone, pity criminals, most of them will be gone too. So does officials. Once a country reach certain level of prosperity and officials salary was high like Singapore. Corruption, small bribes, gifts, etc will be gone, most of it. It's human psychology.

Of course good law enforcement, transparency and high official salary are needed too.

Do you consider Italy and UK as prosper countries? There have been scandals about their politicians being corrupt these recent years. I don't have to tell you about Chen Shui-bian's case.

 

[livingdead]

Do you consider Italy and UK as prosper countries? There have been scandals about their politicians being corrupt these recent years. I don't have to tell you about Chen Shui-bian's case.

The level and prevalence of corruption in uk is very low. There will always be people who want to be corrupt (take shortcut) in every society, but some society has very less people doing so.
The prevalence of corruption in India is so much, a good person cannot survive there without paying some bribe.

 

[Okemos]

Why China is corrupted? Because of people like you, the OP.

The OP likes corruption so he can skip the system to get ahead of others, for the sake of his personal efficiency, very similar to what happened during Black Friday when a bunch of people ignored the long queue in order to get their cheap TVs! More wealthy people wont wait the whole night to get TV for $200 less.

The OP's reason that their company has to wait for couple of month for clearance is also spurious. I work with telecom and utility companies to obtain licenses and other permits in my state, often times, we have to wait half of year to 2 years. Companies complain a lot, but we never try to win favor from government staff. lack of efficiency is not excuse for your aid and abet in corruption.