Why China does NOT fear India's missiles

[Nan Yang]

the pic u posted depicts a weapon system to be deployed in space , i dont think India would deploy weapons in space

That picture IS the Exo Atmospheric Kinetic Kill vehicle.
But I do not blame you for not recognizing it.

Here is another image of it.

BTW india did achieve exo atmospheric kill in the form of PDV

India successfully test-fires PDV missile interceptor
India successfully conducted a high-altitude test of a new interceptor missile capable of neutralising incoming long-range missiles on 27 April.

The Prithvi Defence Vehicle (PDV) is a two-stage solid propellant interceptor that is a modified version of the Prithvi liquid-propellant tactical ballistic missile. It is designed to shoot down intermediate-range ballistic missiles (IRBMs), such as Pakistan's Ghauri and Shaheen missiles, at an altitude of 110-150 km within a range of 2,500 km.

This is substantially higher than the 50 km-high interceptions carried out by the exo-atmospheric Prithvi Air Defence (PAD) missile, which the DRDO is reported to have started developing in 1999.
India successfully test-fires PDV missile interceptor - IHS Jane's 360

CHEERS

No that is not a mid-course intercept in space. You need an Exo Atmospheric Kinetic Kill vehicle for that which India do not have.

 

[me_itsme]

That picture IS the Exo Atmospheric Kinetic Kill vehicle.
But I do not blame you for not recognizing it.

Here is another image of it.




No that is not a mid-course intercept. You need an Exo Atmospheric Kinetic Kill vehicle for that which India do not have.

Please explain? Thanks

 

[Nan Yang]

Please explain? Thanks

Mid course intercept is the best way to destroy an incoming missile before it deploys it multiple warheads.

But a ballistic missile in mid course is in normally in space. In space there is no atmosphere. So to guide your kill vehicle to the missile you need this.

Or jump to 1.25 in this video.

Does India have an exo atmospheric kill vehicle ?

 

[Omega007]

Mid course intercept is the best way to destroy an incoming missile before it deploys it multiple warheads.

But a ballistic missile in mid course is in normally in space. In space there is no atmosphere. So to guide your kill vehicle to the missile you need this.

Or jump to 1.25 in this video.

Does India have an exo atmospheric kill vehicle ?

What's the interception altitude of this exo atmospheric kinetic kill vehicle ??
Our PDV has interception altitude of ~160 km which in fact makes it an exoatmospheric system.

And yes,India does have a working prototype of exoatmospheric kinetic kill vehicle.Check out this member's avatar.
@HariPrasad

 

[me_itsme]

Mid course intercept is the best way to destroy an incoming missile before it deploys it multiple warheads.

But a ballistic missile in mid course is in normally in space. In space there is no atmosphere. So to guide your kill vehicle to the missile you need this.

Or jump to 1.25 in this video.

Does India have an exo atmospheric kill vehicle ?

I am sorry I know what is mid course interception and KKV. What I meant was our PDV is an exo atmospheric intercepter, but I doubt it includes a KKV, i might me wrong. I wanted to know how is mid course interception different than the same exo atmosphere interception PDV is designed for.

 

[Tshering22]

Has it occurred to any of you lot here that the author is simply trying to create an aura if fear so that Indian defence buys more from his land?

After all, they are good at this aren't they?

 

[DrSomnath999]

You don't understand the concept,do you brother.Ok,here's the deal - The S 400 (as other long range SAMs like the S 300 variants,Aster 30,HQ 9 etc) are long range SAMs with SECONDARY ABM capabilities.

Brother

when did i say it is not a SAM check my post no 2 of this thread you would see it , i have not edited it .

Its maximum target interception altitude is not more than 30 km and its top speed is also much lower than other dedicated ABM interceptors like Arrow 2/3,SM 3 and THAAD.

true
but it's range is twice larger than PAC -3

Nuclear Weapons: A Very Short Introduction - Joseph M. Siracusa - Google Books

S 400 has got very limited terminal ABM capability against MRBMs with unitary warheads due to their slower velocity and lower interception altitude.And in order to intercept modern Ballistic Missile warheads,you need to kill them in their midcourse,well out side of the atmosphere.That's why countries including India,Israel and US are working on high speed exoatmospheric interceptors.If terminal interception was all that was needed,they wouldn't have wasting so much time and resources on a seemingly unnecessary development!!

yes S 400 cant intercept ICBM & USA 's PAC -3 & thaad also cant do that

That's why US has developed The Ground-based Midcourse Defense (GMD) System is the first and only operationally deployed missile defense program to defend the homeland against long-range ballistic missile attacks. The system provides early detection and tracking during the boost phase, midcourse target discrimination, precision intercept and destruction of inbound ICBMs through force of hit-to-kill technology.
Boeing: Ground-based Midcourse Defense (GMD) System

Meanwhile the Russians are devoloping S 500 to counter ICBMS .But they wouldnt make only dedicated ABMs only they would make
SAM with ABM capabilty as building only ABM is a costly & economy draining systems

others are also catching up for mid course interception like china did in 2010 & india also catching up

Besides,we don't know how much efficient and effective those S 400 missile rounds would be against ballistic missiles since till date we haven't heard about any ballistic missile interception by this system.

In February 2004, the Russian Air Force announced that state tests of the S-400 had been completed and that the system was finally ready for production.(15) Two months later, Interfax-Military News Agency reported that an upgraded 48N6DM long-range interceptor had successfully destroyed a test ballistic missile. An Almaz-Antey official stated that “the system launched the upgraded 48N6DM long-range missile. The missile was guided to the target with precision, while the tasks set have been fulfilled.”

MissileThreat :: S-400 (SA-20 Triumf)

All we've come to know range from the words of some journos and so called experts with reports of dubious values to plain propaganda.Its tests haven't been documented like the Israeli or Indian or US systems,so its effectiveness isn't really beyond doubt.It's like saying that Akash can make India immune from Pakistani missiles since it has got a SECONDARY ABM capability,although we've never seen it achieving such a feat!!

You cannot compare AKASH SAM with S 400 , though they both boast of limited ABM capability but performance & technology wise S 400 is much superior to AKASH SAM.

yes no ABM cant be 100 % leak proof i agree &

BTW i was the guy who posted this thread
How can Pakistan counter India’s ABM system?

CHEERS

 

[DrSomnath999]

Which idiot started this " sensational article " as claimed by you ?? Ohh it was You . Do You suffer from split personality ??

why are you such a big time jerk !! i just can understand

posting any article in this forum no matter what's the content in it doesnt mean the article is written by the guy whose posting it .
& for that someone has to resort to personal attack to that guy who is posting that thread this is really annoying.

May be some guys are so frustrated in their sorry lives that they cant even take some light hearted sarcastic posts from someone & resorting to PA's

Shame!!

I had clearly said S-400 has limited ABM capability to Intercept low range Ballistic missiles, Show me a Proof that Shows S-400 has brought down long range Ballistic missile ??

.

your post is wrong regarding S400 limited ABM capabilty against low range ballistic missiles it is capable against both low range & medium range Ballistic missiles .

Nuclear Risks and Preparedness: Updated First Edition - Kevin G. Briggs - Google Books


& i have never said it can intercept ICBM .
because it is not designed to intercept ICBM thats why the Russians are developing S 500 & new hypersonic Interceptor missiles to engage ICBM


Russia to roll out new hypersonic missiles | Russia & India Report



CHEERS

lol...look into exo atmos kinetic kill vehicle.

oh yes buddy

thanks for pointing that out

My bad

CHEERS

 

[Omega007]

Brother

when did i say it is not a SAM check my post no 2 of this thread you would see it , i have not edited it .


true
but it's range is twice larger than PAC -3

Nuclear Weapons: A Very Short Introduction - Joseph M. Siracusa - Google Books




yes S 400 cant intercept ICBM & USA 's PAC -3 & thaad also cant do that

That's why US has developed The Ground-based Midcourse Defense (GMD) System is the first and only operationally deployed missile defense program to defend the homeland against long-range ballistic missile attacks. The system provides early detection and tracking during the boost phase, midcourse target discrimination, precision intercept and destruction of inbound ICBMs through force of hit-to-kill technology.
Boeing: Ground-based Midcourse Defense (GMD) System

Meanwhile the Russians are devoloping S 500 to counter ICBMS .But they wouldnt make only dedicated ABMs only they would make
SAM with ABM capabilty as building only ABM is a costly & economy draining systems

others are also catching up for mid course interception like china did in 2010 & india also catching up






MissileThreat :: S-400 (SA-20 Triumf)



You cannot compare AKASH SAM with S 400 , though they both boast of limited ABM capability but performance & technology wise S 400 is much superior to AKASH SAM.

yes no ABM cant be 100 % leak proof i agree &

BTW i was the guy who posted this thread
How can Pakistan counter India’s ABM system?

CHEERS

I actually made some fundamental mistake in posts.Like I meant to say a long range SAM like S 400 with limited ABM capability won't be of much help against modern solid fuelled IRBM,but I mistakenly wrote ICBM.But I actually meant IRBM,sorry it was my bad.

But my point still remains valid.When you are talking about an ABM interceptor,it's not the slant range that matters the most,in fact the range is not very significant a factor;but it's the maximum interception altitude and speed of the interceptor that matters the most!!And in both this matters S 400 lags behind the likes of SM 3,THAAD or the Arrow missile defence systems!!So its their effectiveness against modern IRBMs would be somewhat limited.There is a reason India rejected the S 300PMU2 and went to develop its own systems and it actually happened for quite the better!!

Again,what kind of ballistic missile was intercepted by the S 400??As I said earlier,the details as usual are too blurry to draw any kind of conclusions.But I based my opinion on the information available on the parameters of S 400 systems in the public domain.
One more thing,those government propaganda do not fascinate me,not any more.That's why although I cheer on the events of every successful missile interception by our DRDO,I also laugh when they claim the system is ready to be deployed and can handle any kind of threat from ballistic missiles prevalent in our region.Because simply put,we don't know whether it's truely ready or not,whether it will work against Pakistani solid fueled MRBMs like Shaheen,because simply put,our system has only been validated against liquid fueled SRBMs which no matter how much modified to mimic the trajectory of whatever missile,can never match the re-entry velocity of a longer range solid fueled missile - it's as simple as that.So far they have shied away from testing the system against solid fueled MRBMs like Agni 1 or the K 15,this leads me to believe that perhaps the system isn't ready yet despite of their claims,perhaps they themselves aren't confident enough.......yet. And for this very same reason,I don't believe all what the Russians or any country for that matter claims about the capabilities of their respective systems.

I've read the Boeing GMD and EKV projects before,thank you.So far they've pumped in over 25 billion $$ and yet could only achieve a moderate success rate of just 52% - not that impressive.According to their estimates,it will cost them a hopping 40 billion $ by 2016!!

 

[HariPrasad]

Indian missiles like Shourya are Hybrid missiles and many Anti ABM features are already incorporated in Indian missiles to deal with Chinese Sams . Article totally forgets that India is also developing SLBM like K-4 and K-5 , which will keep chinese guessing about their launch position.

Missile you refer are quasi ballistic missiles with shaped trajectory. They are virtually impossible to intercept with current BMD systems.

I actually made some fundamental mistake in posts.Like I meant to say a long range SAM like S 400 with limited ABM capability won't be of much help against modern solid fuelled IRBM,but I mistakenly wrote ICBM.But I actually meant IRBM,sorry it was my bad.

But my point still remains valid.When you are talking about an ABM interceptor,it's not the slant range that matters the most,in fact the range is not very significant a factor;but it's the maximum interception altitude and speed of the interceptor that matters the most!!And in both this matters S 400 lags behind the likes of SM 3,THAAD or the Arrow missile defence systems!!So its their effectiveness against modern IRBMs would be somewhat limited.There is a reason India rejected the S 300PMU2 and went to develop its own systems and it actually happened for quite the better!!

Again,what kind of ballistic missile was intercepted by the S 400??As I said earlier,the details as usual are too blurry to draw any kind of conclusions.But I based my opinion on the information available on the parameters of S 400 systems in the public domain.
One more thing,those government propaganda do not fascinate me,not any more.That's why although I cheer on the events of every successful missile interception by our DRDO,I also laugh when they claim the system is ready to be deployed and can handle any kind of threat from ballistic missiles prevalent in our region.Because simply put,we don't know whether it's truely ready or not,whether it will work against Pakistani solid fueled MRBMs like Shaheen,because simply put,our system has only been validated against liquid fueled SRBMs which no matter how much modified to mimic the trajectory of whatever missile,can never match the re-entry velocity of a longer range solid fueled missile - it's as simple as that.So far they have shied away from testing the system against solid fueled MRBMs like Agni 1 or the K 15,this leads me to believe that perhaps the system isn't ready yet despite of their claims,perhaps they themselves aren't confident enough.......yet. And for this very same reason,I don't believe all what the Russians or any country for that matter claims about the capabilities of their respective systems.

I've read the Boeing GMD and EKV projects before,thank you.So far they've pumped in over 25 billion $$ and yet could only achieve a moderate success rate of just 52% - not that impressive.According to their estimates,it will cost them a hopping 40 billion $ by 2016!!

How do you compare PDV to S400 and arrow II and Arrow III? PDV has the capability to intercept the missiles at 150 KM altitude currently which will extended to 250 KM.

@DrSomnath999 . Sir Your opinion please.

 

[DrSomnath999]

That picture IS the Exo Atmospheric Kinetic Kill vehicle.
But I do not blame you for not recognizing it.

Here is another image of it.

& you shouldnt be becoz i really got confused by that pic

on top it the image is written in chinese & is Computer generated & this one too

very little info we know in public about's Chinese EKKVs .I dont think this pic is an official release .

take a look at Raytheons KKVs

Raytheon Company: Exoatmospheric Kill Vehicle (EKV)

No that is not a mid-course intercept in space. You need an Exo Atmospheric Kinetic Kill vehicle for that which India do not have.

india doesnt have Exo Atmospheric Kinetic Kill vehicle at the moment right now but india is planning to have it
though india' problem is india doesnt want to showcase it's anti satellite kill capabilty

i quote

During a speech regarding DRDO’s upcoming challenges and defence projects, DRDO Chief Saraswat touched upon the crucial issue of the anti-satellite vehicle, a capability which hitherto lies with the U.S, Russia and China. The development of an anti-satellite vehicle is feasible if the Agni-III missile and the Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) kill vehicle are integrated. The DRDO Chief added that the effective range, which is about 1400-1500 kilometers, is sufficient to engage a satellite. India is known to have been developing an exo-atmospheric kill vehicle that can be integrated with the missile to engage satellites.

In the recent past, DRDO Chief V.K Saraswat has stated that India had all the building blocks necessary to integrate an anti-satellite weapon to neutralize hostile satellites in low earth and polar orbits. The Agni series of missiles already contained the propulsion module and a kill vehicle already existed in principle although it had not been formalized. According to DRDO, the Indian Ballistic Missile Defence Program can incorporate the anti-satellite weapon development. India purports development of anti-satellite weapons for electronic or physical destruction of satellites in both LEO or Low Earth Orbit (2,000 kilometers altitude above earth's surface) and the higher GEO-synchronous orbits.

In an earlier statement, Dr. Saraswat said that while work on individual components of the system is going on, the anti-satellite (A-Sat) weapon will be built and tested only if and when the country needs it. He added that India must not lag behind in terms of space security. In addition, India has conducted many successful tests of its ballistic missile defence system wherein an "attacker” ballistic missile at an altitude of 120 kilometers was destroyed with an interceptor missile.

India Contemplates Anti-Satellite Vehicle Integration with Agni-III Ballistic Missile - Defence Now

CHEERS

 

[HariPrasad]

& you shouldnt be becoz i really got confused by that pic

on top it the image is written in chinese & is Computer generated & this one too

very little info we know in public about's Chinese EKKVs .I dont think this pic is an official release .

take a look at Raytheons KKVs

Raytheon Company: Exoatmospheric Kill Vehicle (EKV)












india doesnt have Exo Atmospheric Kinetic Kill vehicle at the moment right now but india is planning to have it
though india' problem is india doesnt want to showcase it's anti satellite kill capabilty

i quote

India Contemplates Anti-Satellite Vehicle Integration with Agni-III Ballistic Missile - Defence Now

CHEERS

Do you know about Indian KKV? Do you want see the picture of India KKV in testing?

 

[spectribution]

Brother

when did i say it is not a SAM check my post no 2 of this thread you would see it , i have not edited it .


true
but it's range is twice larger than PAC -3

Nuclear Weapons: A Very Short Introduction - Joseph M. Siracusa - Google Books




yes S 400 cant intercept ICBM & USA 's PAC -3 & thaad also cant do that

That's why US has developed The Ground-based Midcourse Defense (GMD) System is the first and only operationally deployed missile defense program to defend the homeland against long-range ballistic missile attacks. The system provides early detection and tracking during the boost phase, midcourse target discrimination, precision intercept and destruction of inbound ICBMs through force of hit-to-kill technology.
Boeing: Ground-based Midcourse Defense (GMD) System

Meanwhile the Russians are devoloping S 500 to counter ICBMS .But they wouldnt make only dedicated ABMs only they would make
SAM with ABM capabilty as building only ABM is a costly & economy draining systems

others are also catching up for mid course interception like china did in 2010 & india also catching up






MissileThreat :: S-400 (SA-20 Triumf)



You cannot compare AKASH SAM with S 400 , though they both boast of limited ABM capability but performance & technology wise S 400 is much superior to AKASH SAM.

yes no ABM cant be 100 % leak proof i agree &

BTW i was the guy who posted this thread
How can Pakistan counter India’s ABM system?

CHEERS

Check THAAD that is the future or SM 2/SM 3.

 

[Omega007]

Missile you refer are quasi ballistic missiles with shaped trajectory. They are virtually impossible to intercept with current BMD systems.





How do you compare PDV to S400 and arrow II and Arrow III? PDV has the capability to intercept the missiles at 150 KM altitude currently which will extended to 250 KM.

@DrSomnath999 . Sir Your opinion please.

It's actually too early to compare at this point of time since PDV has just been out from drawing board to testing phase.

Do you know about Indian KKV? Do you want see the picture of India KKV in testing?

Well I would.Do you have the picture??I would be much obliged if you could post it here bro.

 

[HariPrasad]

It's actually too early to compare at this point of time since PDV has just been out from drawing board to testing phase.

No it is not early it is just tested like Arrow 3. Pl compare if you have the DATA.

Well I would.Do you have the picture??I would be much obliged if you could post it here bro.

No picture sorry I was confused with other picture but I have read somewhere that it is being developed at ISRO facility.

Prior to PDV test, One article had mentioned that it will carry KKV.