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Why Chennai can't and won't speak Hindi

If you agree that Tamil is the oldest (native language) of India unlike English or Hindi, then India has all the reasons to incorporate Tamil as a primary language in recognition of Tamil's roots - Dravidian, but that India's choice.
Sorry, if that were the token of decision making then Sanskrit would be the primary language of India.
Instead the primary language of India is chosen on the basis of its reach. Tamil, far from being the most spoken language in India is not even the second most spoken language.

Hindi covers nearly 50% of India, clearly making it out to be the primary language of India. This is not a debate on whether Hindi is better or Tamil, but simply a question of what a primary language of a country should be - one that a very small minority speaks and wants to impose or one that is already spoken by nearly half of India.
I repeat Tamil is an international language unlike Hindi or some tribal Indian languages, so your comparison of Tamil with other Indian languages is baseless
This is rather a fallacy. Hindi is by far the most international language of India.
Tamil might have recognition in Singapore and Sri Lanka.

But please bear in mind, that the most number of migrants abroad - all across the world - from India are Hindi speaking. That means you can get by in life by speaking Hindi from Canada to UK.
Pakistan to Bangladesh to Nepal.

Hindi has a far wider audience and reception outside of India than Tamil.

Again - this has nothing to do with any language being 'better', simply a matter of one having wider reach.

Not in Tamil Nadu though. The Government there hasn't implemented Hindi as a mandatory language.
Interesting.
Are there any other States where Hindi is not taught ?

This is not about understanding or knowing a language.
I'm just asking why can't be COIN in some other language..just as show of unity?
Today its coin, tomorrow you might ask the Parliament to speak in Tamil as 'show of Unity'. Third day you might ask all Central Schemes to be implemented in Tamil all over India as a 'show of Unity'.

Both are nothing but tokenisms to please ego's and serve no utility.
 
When people don't have a problem then I don't think a language should actually matter. Tamil is as much official by our constitution as Hindi is.

Though I would say that Hindi as a pan-India INDIAN language is easy to communicate for people between states, we honestly don't have much problems.

Been to Chennai many times. Over there, a lot of locals know decent Hindi which they speak after knowing that I was not from his state (naturally :D).

Mr. Hafizzz thinks that creating such stupid threads would actually cause a negative impact. Wonder why Balochis and Pathans hate Urdu versus their own 'Islamic' oriented Urdu that they don't want.
 
The problem with using Hindi as a "National Language" is that it's pretty much the language of the Majority. To make comparison its like Indonesia decided to use Javanese as its go to language for the entire country.

There's an opinion piece in the Hindu that also address this:

A language that built a nation
Pallavi Aiyar
17PALLAVI_1586553e.jpg

Illustration: Surendra

Given Indonesia's complex plurality, it did well to choose Bahasa Indonesia, a simple and flexible tongue, as the official language even though it was not spoken by the majority of its citizens (20% actually uses it in a daily basis)
For newly independent nations, the choice of an official, national language was crucial, and often controversial, made especially so in the context of polyphonic and geographically diverse countries like China, India, and Indonesia.

In China, the Communist Party, opted for Putonghua, or Mandarin, the language of the capital, Beijing. In India, the initial intention of the postcolonial state — to adopt Hindi as the national language — was abandoned, and instead a plurality of languages were granted recognition.

The divergent linguistic paths followed by China and India can be explained in part by the fact that the majority of Chinese languages, unlike their Indian counterparts, are united by a common writing system, making the imposition of a single language for all China more palatable.

But the sprawling archipelago of Indonesia, an agglomeration of over 17,000 islands, which are home to some 700 languages, many of which do not share scripts or linguistic roots, is more directly comparable to India. However, Indonesia too, chose to adopt a single national language: Bahasa Indonesia.

Rallying symbol
The idea that a “nation” requires a national language to act as a social glue is hardly uncommon, but what makes Bahasa Indonesia noteworthy is that it was neither the language of the majority of Indonesian citizens, nor of its political elite. Those labels belonged to Javanese, a language spoken by the majority of the inhabitants of Java, Indonesia’s most populous island and the centre of gravity of its nationalist movement.

The Republic of Indonesia consequently made an unusual decision when it bypassed its majority language, Javanese, in favour of a variety of Malay, whose standardised form was dubbed Bahasa Indonesia or the language of Indonesia. The many Javanese nationalists involved in the discussions at the time not only acquiesced but actively advocated Bahasa Indonesia as the logical choice for a national language.

Goenawan Mohamad, the grand old man of Indonesian journalism and one of the country’s leading poets, explains that Malay had functioned as a lingua franca across the archipelago for centuries. By the time it was officially adopted by the nationalist movement in 1928, it had already emerged as a rallying symbol of resistance to colonial politics. “Bahasa Indonesia was intertwined with national identity from early on in the nationalist struggle,” Goenawan says.

Malay’s role
Malay’s role in Indonesian nationalism evolved in part due the absence of a Dutch equivalent to the British Macaulay. Under the Dutch colonial administration, “native” Indonesians were discouraged from learning Dutch, in keeping with an imperialist strategy that sought to maintain a social distance between the rulers and the populace. Unlike English in India, the colonial language of Dutch was not of much use in enabling nationalist consciousness in Indonesia. Malay, on the other hand, had long been used by traders across the South East Asian region, as the language of communication.

Indonesian nationalists were keenly aware of the need to avoid conflating nationalism with any single ethnicity or religion, given the complex plurality that they were attempting to weave into a coherent unity. They chose therefore to use language as the primary symbol of their nation building efforts.

Hierarchic Javanese
Goenawan, explains that choosing Javanese as a national language would have signalled that Indonesia was Java, defeating the aims of nationalism. Javanese was moreover an ancient and hierarchic language that was difficult to adapt to modern ways of thinking. In Javanese, the speaker must use forms of address that identifies her social ranking in relation to the person being addressed. It is deeply imbued with feudal terminology and was consequently not suited to express ideas of liberty and equality.

Bahasa Indonesia is conversely so simple and flexible a language that some have accused it of being an invented tongue. This is a misunderstanding. The language is not invented as much as having been constantly enriched by its own history, soaking up loan words from divergent cultural milieux.

Traces of the influence of the Hindu-Buddhist kingdoms that dominated the region for hundreds of years, of Arab and Indian Muslim traders, Portuguese and Dutch colonialists, can all be found in the Bahasa (itself derived from the Sanskrit word bhasha or language) Indonesia vocabulary. Its amalgamation of words, borrowed from Sanskrit, Javanese, Persian, Arabic, Chinese, Portuguese, Dutch and English, is synthesised with a no-fuss grammar, and written in the Roman script.

The thinking of Indonesian nationalists seems to have been right on the money. Today, just as Bollywood and cricket are often believed to hold India together, it is Bahasa Indonesia that is most often cited as the cement binding Indonesia’s diverse peoples. But despite the fact that it is the language of government bureaucracy, schools and the media, only around 20 million, out of 240 million, Indonesians speak it as a first language.

Engineering a minority language into the national language has brought about a strange dichotomy between the spoken and written word. When they write, Indonesians do so almost exclusively in Bahasa Indonesia. There hasn’t been a daily newspaper in Javanese, for example, for decades. And the literature that they produce is also invariably in Indonesian.

Endangered languages
Some blame this phenomenon for the fact that Indonesian literature remains somewhat underdeveloped, and has failed to match the international success of its Indian, or even Chinese, equivalents. “People do not write in their own languages here, which reduces those languages to oral status. And orality is ultimately shallow,” says John McGlynn, chairman of the Lontar Foundation an organisation that works to promote and translate Indonesian literature.

Moreover, in the push to convert the country to Bahasa Indonesia several other indigenous languages have come to be threatened. The Javanese script is one such casualty, but far from the only one. In fact one of every four Indonesian languages is endangered.

Regardless, the writer Goenawan echoes what is a common sentiment in Indonesia when he concludes: “We are very, very, lucky to have Bahasa Indonesia. Otherwise we could not have survived. There would be no Indonesia without Indonesian.”

A language that built a nation - The Hindu
 
Interesting.
Are there any other States where Hindi is not taught ?

I am not aware about the North-Eastern States. But in rest of India at least, Tamil Nadu does stand out as the exception. And I'm clubbing Hindi & Urdu into one system here, as I believe it isn't imposed in JK either.
 
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Sorry, if that were the token of decision making then Sanskrit would be the primary language of India.
Instead the primary language of India is chosen on the basis of its reach. Tamil, far from being the most spoken language in India is not even the second most spoken language.

Hindi covers nearly 50% of India, clearly making it out to be the primary language of India. This is not a debate on whether Hindi is better or Tamil, but simply a question of what a primary language of a country should be - one that a very small minority speaks and wants to impose or one that is already spoken by nearly half of India.

This is rather a fallacy. Hindi is by far the most international language of India.
Tamil might have recognition in Singapore and Sri Lanka.

But please bear in mind, that the most number of migrants abroad - all across the world - from India are Hindi speaking. That means you can get by in life by speaking Hindi from Canada to UK.
Pakistan to Bangladesh to Nepal.

Hindi has a far wider audience and reception outside of India than Tamil.

Again - this has nothing to do with any language being 'better', simply a matter of one having wider reach.


Interesting.
Are there any other States where Hindi is not taught ?


Today its coin, tomorrow you might ask the Parliament to speak in Tamil as 'show of Unity'. Third day you might ask all Central Schemes to be implemented in Tamil all over India as a 'show of Unity'.

Both are nothing but tokenisms to please ego's and serve no utility.


I would second Sanskrit to replace Hindi as a Pan-Indian language like how Mandarin acts as an umbrella to local languages in China.

Everyone can speak all their native languages with their own people but Sanskrit would act as a bridge between people of different states.
 
This is not about understanding or knowing a language.
I'm just asking why can't be COIN in some other language..just as show of unity?

Probably because it would serve no purpose, there is a logic that drives the idea of Hindi & English as official languages.; Hindi for the Hindi speaking & English for everyone else. Most Indians have made their peace with the impact of history, I'm sure for all your protests, you have too. A coin in Tamil wouldn't be understood by most people, including a substantial part of Tamils who might simply be more familiar with the numerals as written.
 
I am not aware about the North-Eastern States. But in rest of India at least, Tamil does stand out as the exception. And I'm clubbing Hindi & Urdu into one system here, as I believe it isn't imposed in JK either.
Urdu is essentially the same language as Hindi. Its slowly converging back into Hindi in any case.

So in all of India barring North East(about which we donot know) and Tamil Nadu - Hindi is taught ?
 
I would second Sanskrit to replace Hindi as a Pan-Indian language like how Mandarin acts as an umbrella to local languages in China.

Everyone can speak all their native languages with their own people but Sanskrit would act as a bridge between people of different states.

Brilliant! And Sanskrit will somehow not 'destroy' the culture of Tamils. That power belongs to Hindi alone, innit?

Urdu is essentially the same language as Hindi. Its slowly converging back into Hindi in any case.

So in all of India barring North East(about which we donot know) and Tamil Nadu - Hindi is taught ?

I think so, Yeah.
 
I would second Sanskrit to replace Hindi as a Pan-Indian language like how Mandarin acts as an umbrella to local languages in China.

Everyone can speak all their native languages with their own people but Sanskrit would act as a bridge between people of different states.
I wont mind that either. Its too late in the day now to do anything.
As bangalore said - time to make peace and move on.
 
Urdu is essentially the same language as Hindi. Its slowly converging back into Hindi in any case.

So in all of India barring North East(about which we donot know) and Tamil Nadu - Hindi is taught ?

Here in NE, my state teaches Hindi, Arunachal's official language is Hindi to communicate. The rest is not so much.

Brilliant! And Sanskrit will somehow not 'destroy' the culture of Tamils. That power belongs to Hindi alone, innit?

Tamil culture is not a separate country's culture as the state fanatics like to mention. I don't know about you but I am a northeasterner myself and don't see it as a hostile attempt.

In modern times even north Indians don't know Sanskrit which means the entire country will re-learn the language. This will put all Indians to put in extra efforts making them equal.

Russia also has a lot of languages in their eastern parts of Siberia and Southern Caucasus.

But Russian is standard.

Why not Sanskrit, the mother of all languages then for India?

Hindi is a derivative language from Sanskrit just as other state languages are.
 
Today its coin, tomorrow you might ask the Parliament to speak in Tamil as 'show of Unity'. Third day you might ask all Central Schemes to be implemented in Tamil all over India as a 'show of Unity'.
Both are nothing but tokenisms to please ego's and serve no utility.
We won't ask everyone to speak in Tamil as show of unity as you are asking us to speak in Hindi. We always respect others and their opinion.
So according to you Unity is Hindi?
NO !! Unity is in diversity...by your statement its like every non Hindi speaker is like 2nd citizen? one can't speak other language than Hindi in Indian parliament? LOL what a democracy.
 
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Here in NE, my state teaches Hindi, Arunachal's official language is Hindi to communicate. The rest is not so much.



Tamil culture is not a separate country's culture as the state fanatics like to mention. I don't know about you but I am a northeasterner myself and don't see it as a hostile attempt.

In modern times even north Indians don't know Sanskrit which means the entire country will re-learn the language. This will put all Indians to put in extra efforts making them equal.

Russia also has a lot of languages in their eastern parts of Siberia and Southern Caucasus.

But Russian is standard.

Why not Sanskrit, the mother of all languages then for India?

Hindi is a derivative language from Sanskrit just as other state languages are.

Sanskrit is the liturgical language of India and there is no point in artificially resurrecting it now. It's like saying Latin instead of English and French should be the Official language of the EU.

Besides, do have a look at Chola Warrior's assertions. He thinks imposition of any language other than Tamil will dilute the culture of Tamilians. Do you think he'd accept Sanskrit in place of Tamil. Moreover, Tamil Nadu has a history of hatred towards Brahmins Brahminical thought. Sanskrit is much more anathema than Hindi there.
 
So according to you Unity is Hindi?
NO Unity is in diversity...by your statement its like every non Hindi speaker is like 2nd citizen? one can't speak other language than Hindi in Indian parliament? LOL what a democracy.
I think you seem to be hiding behind the word 'democracy' a lot.
I dont know what is taught to you in democracy. But in a democracy, the candidate with 51% of the polled votes wins, and those 49% that supported the other candidate, accept the verdict and move on.
They dont say that their candidate should also get the parliamentary seat because 'its a democracy'.


Similarly, because its a democracy, Tamil is the defacto language of Tamil Nadu. It is protected and promoted by Tamil Nadu Govt, just like other States protect their languages. It is not however the defacto language of India.

The defacto language of India is Hindi by virtue of being spoken by around 50% of the Indian population(and increasing each year). So yes, Hindi will be the primary language of India. The other languages, while equally important in their own States can never have absolute parity with Hindi countrywide.

It is time you made peace with this fact. No other State apart from India has this problem. My mother tongue is also not Hindi, but I dont mind Hindi being the primary language in the least.
 
So according to you Unity is Hindi?
NO Unity is in diversity...by your statement its like every non Hindi speaker is like 2nd citizen? one can't speak other language than Hindi in Indian parliament? LOL what a democracy.

No. Anyone who doesn't speak Tamil is a 2nd class citizen of India. Tamil should be made mandatory in India, and only then will India become a great democracy.

Happy now? That Himalyan ego of yours feeling a bit better now?:coffee:
 
Okay one question - what will happen to a person who can't speak? :azn:

Seriously. Think about it.
 
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