Why can't we manufacture weapons ourselves asks Modi

[Guynextdoor2]

Yep that's what he asked.....

A question every single common Indian that pays tax in the country, should ask.

A question that everyone of us whose fathers, brothers, uncles etc are serving in the frontlines, defending the country using those weapons...

A question that was neglected by all the civilians till now but about time it is time to ask.

A question to be asked as to what happens to all that money thrown into the bottomless pit called DRDO and its associated PSUs and yet no resultant strategic platform is delivered either completely or in time.


Why are you confused though?

I'm confused because of these new new questions coming up

 

[Skull and Bones]

You talking about India?

Look at the moon, mate. Watch the divine intervention in action.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Obviously Modi needs to read the modern scientific concept of IQ, which will explain to him the reason why, if he is not completely retarded of course.

No matter what his faults, His IQ is wayyyy above yours. He's fighting to be the Prime Minister of India, not some random chinese troll

 

[Foo_Fighter]

Correction mate... there are more than 1 (i assume you are ignorant and you are not trolling):

Year Laureates Subject Origin
1902 Ronald Ross Medicine Foreign citizens born in India
1907 Rudyard Kipling Literature Foreign citizens born in India
1913 Rabindranath Tagore Literature Citizen of India
1930 C.V. Raman Physics Citizen of India
1968 Har Gobind Khorana Medicine Foreign citizens of Indian origin
1979 Mother Teresa Peace Foreign born citizen of India
1983 Subrahmanyan Physics Indian-born American citizen
1998 Amartya Sen Economic Sciences Citizen of India
2001 V.S.Naipaul Literature Indian born UK citizen
2009 Venkatraman Ramakrishnan Chemistry Indian born American Citizen

There are a few other noble laureates with connection to India:

- Abdus Salam, born 1926 in British India won the Nobel prize in Physics as a Pakistan national in 1979.
- The 14th Dalai Lama, born 1935 in Tibet won the Nobel prize for peace as "the religious and political leader of the Tibetan people" in 1989. He has been residing in exile in India since 1959.
- V.S.Naipaul Trinidadian born British citizen of Indian descent won the Nobel prize in literature in 2001.
- Muhammad Yunus, born 1940 in British India won the Nobel prize for peace as a Bangladesh national in 2006.

The world should also ask the same as why a 1.2 billion pop. has only produced 1 nobel laurate...

 

[MilSpec]

Yep that's what he asked.....

A question every single common Indian that pays tax in the country, should ask.

A question that everyone of us whose fathers, brothers, uncles etc are serving in the frontlines, defending the country using those weapons...

A question that was neglected by all the civilians till now but about time it is time to ask.

A question to be asked as to what happens to all that money thrown into the bottomless pit called DRDO and its associated PSUs and yet no resultant strategic platform is delivered either completely or in time.


Why are you confused though?

A country smaller than the size of Haryana, with zero resources of its own and with minimal international aid managed to develop an entire fighter jet out of nothing in the midst of a war with 6 enemies each 20 times bigger than itself and rich in resources.

(Read Israel during 60s and 70s era after being betrayed by France).


So don't give these stupid excuses that DRDO 'delivers'.


The only thing that DRDO delivers is delay, waste of public money and gasbag claims that bite the dust and make Indian defence a laughing stock in front of the world.


Until we Indians learn to call a spade as a spade, we will continue to face failure in all fronts and be laughed at by the world powers.

Even their lackeys.

India’s Indigenous weapons manufacturing

Small arms case:

Indian ordinance factory board has struggled to keep up with the need of the small arms systems both for the armed forces /civilian use in the country. When we look at other countries which do deliver the most sophisticated, they either have a very lucrative private small arms market driven by internal consumption like small arms systems like USA, Germany, or in conjunction have export oriented industries like Czech republic, Israel, china etc.

What has prevented India from developing successful small arms system is complicated question. Two of the major causes that come to mind is it’s discouragement towards civilian firearms inherited from the british raj, and it’s docile geo-political stance against exporting firearms.

Civilian arms: India never had any effective forest management like the dept of fish and game in United states of America, which would uses hunting as preservation method in animal habitat. It effectively uses the money obtained by sale of hunting and fishing tags for habitat management/conservation and severely punishes poaching/illegal hunting. Instead India adopted a zero hunting, zero habitat management/ ineffective conservation policy as a knee jerk reaction to British raj hunting days. This removed the justification for civilian firearms and effectively killed the local firearms industry. Next the Indian government in theory want’s to portray the image of security of the masses as the responsibility of Indian law enforcement departments job, but with the ratio of police to population of about 1:1000, it is ridiculous to believe that security establishment is in anyway capable of providing the needed level of security. This has been very clear during naxal violence in last 30 odd years. Civilian small arms systems have quite often transitioned into the military domain into very successful firearms. The 7.62 x 51 Nato round is derived from the civilian 0.308 system, the .338 lapua system was originally designed to take large game long distance and turned into the most effective long range sniper rounds, it still is housed in a 0.416 casing which has been a traditional big game hunting round. Remington 700 bolt action system transitioned into the m24 sniper system. Thr Russian 7.62 x 54R was originally developed to hunt bears and other large sized game. Large number of variation is M16 platforms are attributed to popularity of the AR15 rifles and it’s custumisations done in the civilian versions, including the 7.62x39 variant, the 0.300 blackout. 6.5 grendel and 6.8 spc. Military modifications to M16/m4 platform and civilian modifications to ar15 have a symbiotic relationship. The civilian firearms has essentially fuelled the prowess of certain countries in developing the indigenous small arms market in nation that lead in the small arms market.


Export policy: Companies like Norinco, H&K, CZ, Colt and others depend on the export consumption for majority of their revenues. The even if the local consumption is low, these companies find a huge revenue in the foreign markets. The ever evolving need in different terrain drive ingenuity in their firearms system. Desert conditions needed H&K rifles led to Teflon and self lubricating bolts in their model, Low cost requirement led to skeleton AK variants from norinco, and higher case pressure requirements led to stronger alloys of cz75 and so on.
Entry into small arms market in India:

As the title of the OP suggests Shri Modi asking why there are no indigenous markets, there is not a good business case for private entrepreneur to enter the market.
The reasons:

• No encouragement from army in developing firearms due to its import and associated benefits culture.

• No Encouragement form state governments to develop firearms specific to its law enforcement’s need.

• Export restrictive policy of GoI

• Civilian restrictive firearms policy of India

• Restrictive redtape for setting up firearms company in India.

I am a mechanical engineer and a firearms enthusiast, being from design and manufacturing background and having extensive shooting experience, I can tell you this that mechanically a firearm is as complicated as a stapler, and manufacturing a firearm doesn’t need extremely complicated machineries either. It needs design and manufacturing experience, extensive testing, passion for firearms. The military and the law enforcement agencies and it’s consumption in India is more than enough to sustain a decent sized firearms manufacturer provided the policy and outlook of the bureaucracy changes.

Lets look at Indian Armed forces, Military/para/law enforcement

1,129,900 active Army personnel, 960,000 Reserve forces
58,350 Active Navy personnel, 55,000 Reserve forces
127,200 IAF active personnel 140,000 Reserve forces
Indian Coast Guard 9,550
1,300,586 Indian Paramilitary Forces 987,821 Reserve forces

That brings the active military strength at around 1315450, for a pessimistic projection say 1/2 of them are combatants in case of war that is around 6.5 lakh combatants, even we can project a weapons requirement to down to less than even half of that (3 lakhs) 2.5 lakh battle rifles and equal number of side arm like semi auto handgun, and around 20,000 squad support rifles, another 20,000 carbines (assume intermediate caliber) and say 10,000 precision marksman rifles.

Reserve forces have an approximate strength of around say 1155000, forget arming them completely, just to train them 1 rifle for 10 reservists, thats nearly 1.15lakh rifles, which can be broken down into 30,000 battle rifles, bolt rifles and .22 semi auto training rifles respectively.

ignoring the coast guard s, we still have around 13 lakh para mil forces, again say 1/4th of them can be need newer firearms which brings a projection of arming say 3 lakh units with semi auto handguns with the addition of a carbine/battle rifle of less 1/2 of them.
thats around 3 lakh semi auto pistols and around 1lakh carbines (say pistol caliber) and 50000 battle rifles.


that pessimistically projects a requirement of
Battle rifles 280000 units, (assume 70,000 7.62 Nato, 210000 5.56 Nato)
Carbines 120000 (80000 5.56 caliber, 40,000 .45acp)
Semi auto Handguns 550000 (9mm)
Squad support rifles 20000
Precision Sniper rifles 10000
Bolt action rifles 30000
.22 training rifles 30000

for sake of simplicity lets assume dirt cheap prices for all of them
battle rifle both calibers 500$ (same as insas)
carbines say 400$ (although cxstorm is nearly 1200$)
semi auto handguns at 400$ (although a berreta 92fs iss 600$)
Squad support rifles at 2000$
precision sniper rifle at 2500$ (although even a used dragonuv is around 3000$ and barret m82 runs you 5000$)
Bolt action rifle at 300$ (savage fcns is around twice that price)
.22 training rifle at 150$ (ruger 10/22 around 300$)


Battle rifles 140 Mil dollars
Carbines 48 Mil dollars
Semi auto Handguns 220 Mil dollars
Squad support rifles 40 Mil dollars
Precision Sniper rifles 25 Mil dollars
Bolt action rifles 9 Mil dollars
.22 training rifles 4.5 Mil dollars


The point of this entire example is to give you the rough idea that just by internal consumption (discounting civilian arms) with extremely pessimistic projections in both cost and quantity, you can have a decent market for small arms, but lethargic policy making is preventing this industry. The day this changes, I might pack my backs to go back……

thanks

 

[Tshering22]

I'm confused because of these new new questions coming up

Good.

If you are indeed concerned for the country, then raise these questions to the government.

There is a genuine problem, bro.

None of us Modi supporters say he's Superman.

He's a common man who has done work and shown and this is not some communist country we're talking about where everything is censored. I myself have been to Gujarat many times in the last 2 years and have seen his work.

It isn't Japan or Korea but it is in the process.

Come on man. Let's all recognize good work and give him a chance.

Keeping politics aside, we all want India to rise and become a world power.

Let's join hands and give him a chance.

Cheers.

 

[Echo_419]

No matter what his faults, His IQ is wayyyy above yours. He's fighting to be the Prime Minister of India, not some random chinese troll

What you think? Once he come to power he will kill 1.2 billion Muslims world wide? Gujrat riots were unfortunate incident in Indian history, these kind of things not happen often.

And moreover no one has any evidence against him. Kongress has all agencies (CBI/IB/RAW/NIA/NCDC) why they were unable to frame Modi till date?? It simply means, he is not involved.

After Sikh riots Kongress came into power, did they killed all Sikhs??


Muslims are deliberately kept poor and uneducated by Communal parties..

Tell that to the common Urban folk & other minorities
Who only know Congress is secular & BJP under Modi is Communal
Congress is Keeping Muslims poor bcauz of vote Babk
Is that to hard to Understand People?

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Good.

If you are indeed concerned for the country, then raise these questions to the government.

There is a genuine problem, bro.

None of us Modi supporters say he's Superman.

He's a common man who has done work and shown and this is not some communist country we're talking about where everything is censored. I myself have been to Gujarat many times in the last 2 years and have seen his work.

It isn't Japan or Korea but it is in the process.

Come on man. Let's all recognize good work and give him a chance.

Keeping politics aside, we all want India to rise and become a world power.

Let's join hands and give him a chance.

Cheers.

Dude, seriously you are taking him up to mythical levels. No matter how good a work he has done- once he riots he is automatically unfit. This isn't stealing, this is killing. You think modi is a 'beacon' of change? Look close, his core team declared today includes nitin gadakari who was thrown out of BJP presidency for his corruption, and he is bringing back Yeddy who was thrown out of Karnataka because of his massive corruption. You DELUDED man- modi is not bringing change.

 

[Tshering22]

Dude, seriously you are taking him up to mythical levels. No matter how good a work he has done- once he riots he is automatically unfit. This isn't stealing, this is killing.


You think modi is a 'beacon' of change? Look close, his core team declared today includes nitin gadakari who was thrown out of BJP presidency for his corruption, and he is bringing back Yeddy who was thrown out of Karnataka because of his massive corruption. You DELUDED man- modi is not bringing change.

Again riots.


All you secularists have is 2002 etched on your head by the media and you blindly follow them like sheep.

What about your secular parties that let the massacre of Assamese Hindus last year that too at the hands of foreign Muslims?

What about them when they let massacre of Kashmiri pandits and Buddhists happen in 1990?

WHere the fck was your bloody secularism when they descecrated the Buddha Park and destroyed Mahavira's statue?

Where was that bloody ideology of yours when the Congrees massacred Sikhs in Delhi even after riots had been stopped?


Do you have an answer to this, Secularist?

You claim to be the messiah of secularism and that you are the only hope of the so-called minority.

Then where the FCK was your secularism when all this happened to NON-HINDUS?!

You will never have an answer to that because you know you're wrong and 2002 is the only stupid excuse you have.

Here is a little quote for you. Read it if you have the courage to look into your soul and introspect yourself.


When we say Gujarat's agriculture growth is 10-11% since whole last decade
THEY SAY 2002 Riots!

When we say he made the asia's biggest solar plant,
THEY SAY 2002 Riots!

When we say Gujarat is d only state in the whole of india to provide 24*7 and 365 days electricity to almost all of its 18,000 villages,
THEY SAY 2002 Riots!

When we recall to them World Bank's statement of 2011 in which they said, Gujarat roads are equivalent to international standards,
THEY SAY 2002 Riots!

When we say Gujarat is the first state in country to have "high speed wireless Broadband service in its all 18,000 villages,
THEY SAY 2002 Riots!

When in 2010 Forbes Magazine rated Ahmedabad the fastest growing city in the India and 3rd in world,
THEY SAY 2002 Riots!

When we tell them Gujarat Tourism is growing faster than ever before,
THEY SAY 2002 Riots!

When we tell them according to central Govt's labour bureau's report, Gujarat has the lowest unemployment rate in country,
THEY SAY 2002 Riots!

When Modi is being chosen as d best current Indian leader in almost all of those surveys & polls again n again
THEY SAY 2002 Riots!

When entire world talked the growth model of Modi and
he got listed in World's Top TIME magazine for his work.
THEY SAY 2002 Riots!

When we say 2003-2013 is the only 10 straight years ever in Gujarat history which are complete Riot-free,
THEY STILL SAY 2002 Riots!

But when we remind them, 26/11 riots in Mumbai 2009, Assam Riots in 2012, 1984 anti-Sikh riots, 1947 Bengal riots, 1969 Gujarat riots,1980 Moradabad riots, 1983 Nellie Assam riots, 1989 Bhagalpur riots and more than 18 riots, all of which occurred during the CONgress rule,

THEY CHANGE THE TOPIC Altogether and say Modi is communal.
This time INDIANs are not interested in 2002, We are interested in "2014: The rise of INDIA"


That's the reality.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Again riots.


All you secularists have is 2002 etched on your head by the media and you blindly follow them like sheep.

What about your secular parties that let the massacre of Assamese Hindus last year that too at the hands of foreign Muslims?

What about them when they let massacre of Kashmiri pandits and Buddhists happen in 1990?

WHere the fck was your bloody secularism when they descecrated the Buddha Park and destroyed Mahavira's statue?

Where was that bloody ideology of yours when the Congrees massacred Sikhs in Delhi even after riots had been stopped?


Do you have an answer to this, Secularist?

You claim to be the messiah of secularism and that you are the only hope of the so-called minority.

Then where the FCK was your secularism when all this happened to NON-HINDUS?!

You will never have an answer to that because you know you're wrong and 2002 is the only stupid excuse you have.

Here is a little quote for you. Read it if you have the courage to look into your soul and introspect yourself.


When we say Gujarat's agriculture growth is 10-11% since whole last decade
THEY SAY 2002 Riots!

When we say he made the asia's biggest solar plant,
THEY SAY 2002 Riots!

When we say Gujarat is d only state in the whole of india to provide 24*7 and 365 days electricity to almost all of its 18,000 villages,
THEY SAY 2002 Riots!

When we recall to them World Bank's statement of 2011 in which they said, Gujarat roads are equivalent to international standards,
THEY SAY 2002 Riots!

When we say Gujarat is the first state in country to have "high speed wireless Broadband service in its all 18,000 villages,
THEY SAY 2002 Riots!

When in 2010 Forbes Magazine rated Ahmedabad the fastest growing city in the India and 3rd in world,
THEY SAY 2002 Riots!

When we tell them Gujarat Tourism is growing faster than ever before,
THEY SAY 2002 Riots!

When we tell them according to central Govt's labour bureau's report, Gujarat has the lowest unemployment rate in country,
THEY SAY 2002 Riots!

When Modi is being chosen as d best current Indian leader in almost all of those surveys & polls again n again
THEY SAY 2002 Riots!

When entire world talked the growth model of Modi and
he got listed in World's Top TIME magazine for his work.
THEY SAY 2002 Riots!

When we say 2003-2013 is the only 10 straight years ever in Gujarat history which are complete Riot-free,
THEY STILL SAY 2002 Riots!

But when we remind them, 26/11 riots in Mumbai 2009, Assam Riots in 2012, 1984 anti-Sikh riots, 1947 Bengal riots, 1969 Gujarat riots,1980 Moradabad riots, 1983 Nellie Assam riots, 1989 Bhagalpur riots and more than 18 riots, all of which occurred during the CONgress rule,

THEY CHANGE THE TOPIC Altogether and say Modi is communal.
This time INDIANs are not interested in 2002, We are interested in "2014: The rise of INDIA"


That's the reality.

what exactly is your problem with secularism? That muslims vote for congress and not your favored party? If your sole concern is development, why should that matter? No party will ever win without majority hindu votes going their way. And modi is bringing in corrupt people even before elections, and many people like me look at the evidence and decide that he no way the change that he promises to be, then why should muslims be targeted? Why should muslims be victimized because your man is not elected? Because they are easy to target?

 

[Tshering22]

what exactly is your problem with secularism? That muslims vote for congress and not your favored party? If your sole concern is development, why should that matter? No party will ever win without majority hindu votes going their way. And modi is bringing in corrupt people even before elections, and many people like me look at the evidence and decide that he no way the change that he promises to be, then why should muslims be targeted? Why should muslims be victimized because your man is not elected? Because they are easy to target?

My problem with secularism is this:

1- You guys cry and bleed when one community (favoured by your Honored Madam G) is hurt, but when non-Hindu other communities like us and the sardars face trouble or even the Hindus face trouble in non-Hindu/Buddhist/Sikh majority areas, your secularism vanishes.

2- Your secularism always rises up when some militant pr*ck is shot dead by the Army but when Heroes like Nachiketa and Sarabhjeet Singh or Capt. Kalia face torture, you go mum.

3- Your secularism vanishes when CRPF troops get clobbered by radical fanatics in J&K but the moment someone retaliates with fire, your secularism is sky high.


4- You secularism was hiding in its hole when Buddhists are attacked either by the infamous Mahabodhi temple bombing, or by discreet attacks by radical Chruch groups in NE.



This two timing, spineless, cowardly, bigotry is my problem with you secularists.

And this characteristic is a common thing among all of you, uniformly.

You hate us and love your masters who fund you, praise you and back you against anyone who is not a selected community of your Madam G.

Whether it was Sikhs in 80s, Buddhists now or Kashmiri Hindus in 90s or Assamese Hindus and Bodo minority Christians last year.


That is your true face..

 

[Guynextdoor2]

My problem with secularism is this:

1- You guys cry and bleed when one community (favoured by your Honored Madam G) is hurt, but when non-Hindu other communities like us and the sardars face trouble or even the Hindus face trouble in non-Hindu/Buddhist/Sikh majority areas, your secularism vanishes.

2- Your secularism always rises up when some militant pr*ck is shot dead by the Army but when Heroes like Nachiketa and Sarabhjeet Singh or Capt. Kalia face torture, you go mum.

3- Your secularism vanishes when CRPF troops get clobbered by radical fanatics in J&K but the moment someone retaliates with fire, your secularism is sky high.


4- You secularism was hiding in its hole when Buddhists are attacked either by the infamous Mahabodhi temple bombing, or by discreet attacks by radical Chruch groups in NE.



This two timing, spineless, cowardly, bigotry is my problem with you secularists.

And this characteristic is a common thing among all of you, uniformly.

You hate us and love your masters who fund you, praise you and back you against anyone who is not a selected community of your Madam G.

Whether it was Sikhs in 80s, Buddhists now or Kashmiri Hindus in 90s or Assamese Hindus and Bodo minority Christians last year.


That is your true face..

I really don't care about your complaints. Point is, you can keep crying hoarse as much as you want, but whether or not muslims vote for it, BJP will not win until people like me vote for it. And that aint gonna happen coz the BJP does not fit with my vision for my country. You can tom tom whatever vision it is that you favor but it just isn't shared by enough ppl in the country. You can try to alienate or victimize the muslims because it's so easy to do, but historic experience says that it won't shift ONE VOTE in your favor. BJP is considered only when congress goofs up spectacularly, not because of Hindutva.

 

[chairborne ranger]

what exactly is your problem with secularism? That muslims vote for congress and not your favored party? If your sole concern is development, why should that matter? No party will ever win without majority hindu votes going their way. And modi is bringing in corrupt people even before elections, and many people like me look at the evidence and decide that he no way the change that he promises to be, then why should muslims be targeted? Why should muslims be victimized because your man is not elected? Because they are easy to target?

Muslims are easy to target??? hold your horses mate. targeting a muslim is the easiest way to get killed

 

[Tshering22]

I really don't care about your complaints. Point is, you can keep crying hoarse as much as you want, but whether or not muslims vote for it, BJP will not win until people like me vote for it. And that aint gonna happen coz the BJP does not fit with my vision for my country. You can tom tom whatever vision it is that you favor but it just isn't shared by enough ppl in the country. You can try to alienate or victimize the muslims because it's so easy to do, but historic experience says that it won't shift ONE VOTE in your favor. BJP is considered only when congress goofs up spectacularly, not because of Hindutva.

Then you are against my faith, the Sikh community and the Hindu community.

It simply brings it out in the open.

That is exactly what I wanted to get out of your mouth.


Thanks.


Oh and it is not your country.


It is everyone's country. Our cultures precede thousands of years before your bullshit nehruvianism came against us.


So you're just a passing phase.


You vote for anti-Indians to power because that's your vision while we will vote for Modi because we want to see India as a power not just economic and military but a cultural power as well.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Then you are against my faith, the Sikh community and the Hindu community.

It simply brings it out in the open.

That is exactly what I wanted to get out of your mouth.


Thanks.


Oh and it is not your country.


It is everyone's country. Our cultures precede thousands of years before your bullshit nehruvianism came against us.


So you're just a passing phase.


You vote for anti-Indians to power because that's your vision while we will vote for Modi because we want to see India as a power not just economic and military but a cultural power as well.

i HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU THINK YOU HAVE GOT FROM MY MOUTH. Explain. In any case you can keep blaring about 'your country' and 'your vision'- as shown by the fact that Indians have ignored you in all polls, it really doesn't matter.