Why Are Jews So Powerful

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

so now we r into religious debate?

TARIQ

 

[JonAsad]

This is me getting warmed up.

Nice- please post more of these verses taken out of context--

 

[Mech]

All the verses in the quran that advocates killing is talking about killing during a war, ALL of them. God punishing unbelievers has nothing to do with us. You will most likely burn in hell, it doesn't mean i will kill you, God is just warning you. So when you burn in hell afte...............................................

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

Allow me to quote myself.

Divine command for the destruction of the few cities of Canaan, was for a specific people, a specific time and place and a specific purpose. Nowhere in the later Old Testament period do we see God commanding the nation of Israel to go and attack other pagan nations, either as self-defense or as a way to promote faith in the true God of heaven and earth. However, in the Qur'an, we encounter general commands to kill and destroy the enemies of Islam that are applicable for all times and places and people groups. It is beyond dispute that from the earliest times, right after the death of the prophet, Muslim splinter groups began fighting, killing and assassinating even each other, in the name of God. The history of Islam, down to the present day is filled with the appeals of various Muslims to ever-applicable Qur'anic passages to destroy and kill their enemies.

"فَإِذَا انسَلَخَ الأَشْهُرُ الْحُرُمُ فَاقْتُلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَاحْصُرُوهُمْ وَاقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ الصَّلاَةَ وَآتَوُاْ الزَّكَاةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ" التوبة 5:9


"قَاتِلُواْ الَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللّهِ وَلاَ بِالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَلاَ يُحَرِّمُونَ مَا حَرَّمَ اللّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَلاَ يَدِينُونَ دِينَ الْحَقِّ مِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَابَ حَتَّى يُعْطُواْ الْجِزْيَةَ عَن يَدٍ وَهُمْ صَاغِرُون" التوبة 29:9


"يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ حَرِّضِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ عَلَى الْقِتَالِ إِن يَكُن مِّنكُمْ عِشْرُونَ صَابِرُونَ يَغْلِبُواْ مِئَتَيْنِ وَإِن يَكُن مِّنكُم مِّئَةٌ يَغْلِبُواْ أَلْفًا مِّنَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَوْمٌ لاَّ يَفْقَهُونَ" الأنفال 65:8


" وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ ثَقِفْتُمُوهُمْ وَأَخْرِجُوهُم مِّنْ حَيْثُ أَخْرَجُوكُمْ وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ وَلاَ تُقَاتِلُوهُمْ عِندَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ حَتَّى يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِيهِ فَإِن قَاتَلُوكُمْ فَاقْتُلُوهُمْ كَذَلِكَ جَزَاء الْكَافِرِينَ" البقرة 191:2

 

[agentny17]

Muslims generally believe that since Islam is the final great monotheistic religion, it is superior in every respect to Judaism and Christianity. How can Islam claim to have a superior ethics to the New Testament, and yet resort back to the use and justification of violence, elements that were supposedly part of the early Jewish tradition? It seems that Islam not only has not improved on the teachings of Jesus and the New Testament in regard to the use of force, but that in fact Islam has gone back many steps in this regard.



Divine command for the destruction of the few cities of Canaan, was for a specific people, a specific time and place and a specific purpose. Nowhere in the later Old Testament period do we see God commanding the nation of Israel to go and attack other pagan nations, either as self-defense or as a way to promote faith in the true God of heaven and earth. However, in the Qur'an, we encounter general commands to kill and destroy the enemies of Islam that are applicable for all times and places and people groups. It is beyond dispute that from the earliest times, right after the death of the prophet, Muslim splinter groups began fighting, killing and assassinating even each other, in the name of God. The history of Islam, down to the present day is filled with the appeals of various Muslims to ever-applicable Qur'anic passages to destroy and kill their enemies.

However in the Quran 60:8
"Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly"
That is a general rule for Muslims with Non Muslims, what is hard to understand ? Killing, destroying, ect.. are part of your book, has nothing to do with the Quran.

 

[JonAsad]

All the verses in the quran that advocates killing is talking about killing during a war, ALL of them. God punishing unbelievers has nothing to do with us. You will most likely burn in hell, it doesn't mean i will kill you, God is just warning you. So when you burn in hell after death, you don't say i didn't know. Also, we should avoid war in Islam, we should not start a war,
Quran 8:61
"And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah . Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing"

Stop taking a verse out of a whole sura and make up stuff. The way you talk just tells us that you never read the Quran.



Now, enjoy your book,
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives. (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

zaeek ya pasha- plz dont stoop down to his pathetic level-

 

[Mech]

However in the Quran 60:8
"Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who ac.......

Really ? Didn't you just read the "warm-up" i posted a while ago ? Hypocrite.

 

[agentny17]

Allow me to quote myself.



"فَإِذَا انسَلَخَ الأَشْهُرُ الْحُرُمُ فَاقْتُلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَاحْصُرُوهُمْ وَاقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ الصَّلاَةَ وَآتَوُاْ الزَّكَاةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ" التوبة 5:9


"قَاتِلُواْ الَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللّهِ وَلاَ بِالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَلاَ يُحَرِّمُونَ مَا حَرَّمَ اللّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَلاَ يَدِينُونَ دِينَ الْحَقِّ مِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَابَ حَتَّى يُعْطُواْ الْجِزْيَةَ عَن يَدٍ وَهُمْ صَاغِرُون" التوبة 29:9


"يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ حَرِّضِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ عَلَى الْقِتَالِ إِن يَكُن مِّنكُمْ عِشْرُونَ صَابِرُونَ يَغْلِبُواْ مِئَتَيْنِ وَإِن يَكُن مِّنكُم مِّئَةٌ يَغْلِبُواْ أَلْفًا مِّنَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَوْمٌ لاَّ يَفْقَهُونَ" الأنفال 65:8

Again, all during war time, you are not very smart, aren't you ? I showed you the general rule with non Muslims, and i showed you the general rule of incling toward peace. If all of that fail, and you still gonna fight us, we will fight the hell out of you, till we kill you, or you kill us... Plz try to understand, i hate repating myself.... Now, why do you kill others because they follow another religion in your bible ? This is crazy man!

 

[VelocuR]

..................

dear friend, don't waste time with him. He is Christian who never read Bible and making out of context. I guess, he learned how to hate Muslims people and Islam from his church goers.

He just pretend himself for no reasons.

 

[Mech]

“Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible.”

- Imam Abu Hammid Ghazali

 

[gubbi]

Allow me to quote myself.



"فَإِذَا انسَلَخَ الأَشْهُرُ الْحُرُمُ فَاقْتُلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَاحْصُرُوهُمْ وَاقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ الصَّلاَةَ وَآتَوُاْ الزَّكَاةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ" التوبة 5:9


"قَاتِلُواْ الَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللّهِ وَلاَ بِالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَلاَ يُحَرِّمُونَ مَا حَرَّمَ اللّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَلاَ يَدِينُونَ دِينَ الْحَقِّ مِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَابَ حَتَّى يُعْطُواْ الْجِزْيَةَ عَن يَدٍ وَهُمْ صَاغِرُون" التوبة 29:9


"يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ حَرِّضِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ عَلَى الْقِتَالِ إِن يَكُن مِّنكُمْ عِشْرُونَ صَابِرُونَ يَغْلِبُواْ مِئَتَيْنِ وَإِن يَكُن مِّنكُم مِّئَةٌ يَغْلِبُواْ أَلْفًا مِّنَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَوْمٌ لاَّ يَفْقَهُونَ" الأنفال 65:8


" وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ ثَقِفْتُمُوهُمْ وَأَخْرِجُوهُم مِّنْ حَيْثُ أَخْرَجُوكُمْ وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ وَلاَ تُقَاتِلُوهُمْ عِندَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ حَتَّى يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِيهِ فَإِن قَاتَلُوكُمْ فَاقْتُلُوهُمْ كَذَلِكَ جَزَاء الْكَافِرِينَ" البقرة 191:2

Let it rest Mech. Agree with JonAsad. Its one thing to take verses out of context and another to interpret them. Any verses from any religious book taken out of context will seem inflammatory. Also, any verses misinterpreted - either in context or out of context - will twist the original meaning of the verse and can be inflammatory.

 

[agentny17]

zaeek ya pasha- plz dont stoop down to his pathetic level-

Ezayak ... I agree, why the hell am i trying to educate ? You are right. Sorry people

 

[PteX]

On the contrary its Zionism that we're vehemently against and what we perceive as an apartheid in Israel against our Palestinian brethren.

P.S For every scholar quoted in that article...I could find you a Norman Finklestein !

Anti-Zionism is Antisemitism with a pretty word. Anti-Zionists object the Jewish right for self determination.
I won't bother trying to explain to you about Zionism.

And this is the first time i`ve heard of a man named Norman Finklestein, that is how irrelevant he is to the general Israeli public.
I glanced at his biography for half a minute and closed the link, a self hating Jew does not deserve my time.

Unlike the the information from that Wikipedia link that has actual Suras from the Qoran.

@agentny17
No, they would not be ordered to destroy the enemy if they surrendered, that is why 8700 Egyptians were captured alive during the 73 war and lived.

 

[agentny17]

Sorry everybody i brought religion into this, my apologizes.

You guys killed a lot of Egyptian POW in 1967, and it is documented by your own people..... They surrendered on the condition that they would be judged(go to court) by a former jew by the rule of the Torah. Your book, your people, your rules. What wrong did Prophet Muhammed do ? He did nothing.

 

[Armstrong]

Anti-Zionism is Antisemitism with a pretty word. Anti-Zionists object the Jewish right for self determination.
I won't bother trying to explain to you about Zionism.

And this is the first time i`ve heard of a man named Norman Finklestein, that is how irrelevant he is to the general Israeli public.
I glanced at his biography for half a minute and closed the link, a self hating Jew does not deserve my time.

Unlike the the information from that Wikipedia link that has actual Suras from the Qoran.

@agentny17
No, they would not be ordered to destroy the enemy if they surrendered, that is why 8700 Egyptians were captured alive during the 73 war and lived.

I see so you barged into the Palestine at the point of a gun because of some God given right of yours to the land, initiated an apartheid there and if anyone points that out hes antisemitic or a self-hating Jew. By the way...what about the Palestinian's right of return, their right of self-determination.

And yeah...Finkelstein is the son of Holocaust survivors and he calls out Israel's atrocities exactly because of that. At least listen to the man before forming an opinion on him :

 

[PteX]

Just as Nasser did not want Egypt to learn of the true extent of his defeat and so ordered the killing of Egyptian army stragglers making their way back to the Suez canal zone.
Anyway, i've seen with my own eyes how Arabs treated Arabs, their sheer brutality, i would not like to think how they'd treat Jews.
Though i did see, hundreds of Arabs savagely tore the eyes and intestines from two soldiers who were stranded by mistake in the West bank in Ramallah, while hundreds cheered.

I see so you barged into the Palestine at the point of a gun because of some God given right of yours to the land, initiated an apartheid there and if anyone points that out hes antisemitic or a self-hating Jew. By the way...what about the Palestinian's right of return, their right of self-determination.

And yeah...Finkelstein is the son of Holocaust survivors and he calls out Israel's atrocities exactly because of that. At least listen to the man before forming an opinion on him :

I read about his views, you are clearly a fan, this is proof enough for me.