Why are conspiracy theories popular in Pakistan??

[pak-marine]

caught?? the bharati rajeet singh set free????, india shot a pak military by claiming it was in indian border while was infact very deep into pak border plane in the time of nawaz sharif, the raw hijacking of the indian airplane and then blaming it on ISI?? bhai saab bhul gye kia,

india settle hona hai tu madad karon kia??

A man Ranjeet singh was caught chalo let assume for a minute he was raw agent where are mosad and cia agents , 30 saal main eik bhi nahi pakra gaya ??? how would you define that .. ? this is plain bakwas its pakistanis killing each other ..

And your last question is to prove my point i am asking a plain question and you are terming me as india sympithiser

 

[pak-marine]

Read Woodword's (an American) new book, "Obama's Wars".

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...ined-afghan-assassins-operating-pakistan.html

Bob Woodward (born March 26, 1943) is regarded as one of America’s preeminent investigative reporters and non-fiction authors. He has worked for The Washington Post since 1971 as a reporter, and is currently an associate editor of the Post. While a young reporter for The Washington Post in 1972, Woodward was teamed up with Carl Bernstein; the two did much, but not all, of the original news reporting on the Watergate scandal that led to numerous government investigations and the eventual resignation of President Richard Nixon. Gene Roberts, former managing editor of The New York Times has called the work of Woodward and Bernstein “maybe the single greatest reporting effort of all time.”
Woodward has authored or coauthored 15 non-fiction books in the last 35 years. All 15 have been national bestsellers and 11 of them have been #1 national non-fiction bestsellers — more #1 national non-fiction bestsellers than any contemporary author. He has written multiple #1 national non-fiction bestsellers on a wide range of subjects in each of the four decades he has been active as an author, from 1974 to 2009.



Although majority of American people are good people atleast the common American person doesnt want innocent Pakistanis to be killed.

have pakistan ever caught any one ? this stupid blame game has been going on since ages ,, any one caught "" NO"" !!

 

[XtremeRide 3]

A man Ranjeet singh was caught chalo let assume for a minute he was raw agent where are mosad and cia agents , 30 saal main eik bhi nahi pakra gaya ??? how would you define that .. ? this is plain bakwas its pakistanis killing each other ..

And your last question is to prove my point i am asking a plain question and you are terming me as india sympithiser

proper investigation kare ge govt tu pata chale ga na bhai, nishter park ke terrorist ka pta chala??, french engineers ke katal ka kuch pata chala, did they find the terrorists of lahore attacks????, can you prove that only talibans are behind these activities, app bhi ko kiyas araye he ker rahe ho na, believe what govt feeds you, and govt is too corrupt to believe..

 

[jayron]

the same indian friends have labelled dawn in disgust as a 'pakistan media' pakistani news several times, believe what u want, deny what u want

the same news was they proved false by other 'reliable' pakistani media also, so keep this is mind too that its a controversial area of news

like indian media dawn and geo tv always look for masala news to get publicity

Dawn is one of the most credible unbiased papers in Pakistan. They do have a Pakistani point of view. But I think they are very reasonable and responsible, better than many Indian news agencies.

 

[jayron]

caught?? the bharati rajeet singh set free????, india shot a pak military by claiming it was in indian border while was infact very deep into pak border plane in the time of nawaz sharif, the raw hijacking of the indian airplane and then blaming it on ISI?? bhai saab bhul gye kia,

india settle hona hai tu madad karon kia??

Is calling Indians 'Bharati' some kind of abuse for Pakistanis? Please guys don't make it a racial slur. we have enough already.

You justify the title of this thread. CTs are not going to go from pak any time soon.

 

[arihant]

Yes, since dawn view point is mention, I too upheld the view.

Dawn is most unbiased paper. Since it has to be accordance with Pakistani law, I don't find anything that is anyway offending to me or India.

 

[Anonymous_Clown]

bhai indians entered into pakistan territory, and split pakistan into pieces, these bharatis through their manners and this corrupt govt who hide things just to save their seat have given pakistan to not trust them

lahore attacks happened, terrorists attacked the police men, killed them, they blew merriot hotel, did the govt investigated who were behind those attacks, app sochte ho every time some thing goes wrong is due to some militant maniac, if you dont believe that an enemy snake in the east is waiting for its change, tu ap ke baat mal lain, but ager aap is haqeqaat ko jitna jaldi samaghlo na utna behtar ho ga. even kayani is saying that he cant risk less security in eastern border, these hindus are waiting for us to get weak and trying to attack us, aur aap taliban ki rit laga rahe ho

its common sense talibans cant gain any thing by attacking cricket teams or police men, its common sense, phir who r behind those activities???

SMC and other Pakistani posters:

This kind of thinking is exactly what makes the world say that Pakistan is a nation full of conspiracy theories. The contention of the thread starter is being proved correct by such people.

And defence.pk has educated and modern Pakistanis. When around 50% of the Pakistanis on defence.pk believe in such nonsense, I shudder to think of what the sentiment might be on the streets of Pakistan. I am convinced more than ever that the accusation leveled against Pakistan of having too many conspiracy theorists is absolutely true!

Here are two more gems on this thread:

the raw hijacking of the indian airplane and then blaming it on ISI??

like indian media dawn and geo tv always look for masala news to get publicity

The problem is that many Pakistanis expect that everything is done by India, Jews (Zionists) and Americans. They get vexed when newspapers report impartially and honestly, and start calling those newspapers like Dawn as 'Indian'/'Zionist'/'American stooges' etc. etc.

 

[bigbrother]

which conspiracy theories ?

 

[temujin]

Although I think Pakistanis should not care about indian verdicts concerning indian muslims, since indian muslims chose to stay with india in 1947 and they have nothing to do with Pakistan whatsover, I dont think any indian has Pakistan's best interest at heart.

Just visit your indian defence forums like bharat rakshak forum that even has a section dedicated to Pakistan. indians themselves discussing Pakistan calling for the destruction of Pakistan and murdering innocent Pakistanis, and after any bomb blast in Pakistan indians celebrate on that forum, they even celebrate when a natural disaster occurs in Pakistan, and innocent Pakistanis die.

Pakistanis already know the true face of indians, so dont pretend you have Pakistan's best interest at heart.

Omar, there are fringe elements in all societies and I doubt whether sentiments expressed on BR are representative of how mainstream Indian society views Pakistan or Pakistanis. I am not contesting the fact that there are large sections of Indians who do not consider Pakistan a friendly nation, given the history between the two countries, but this does not normally translate into religiously and racially charged hate of the sort in evidence among Pakistanis vis a vis India and Indians.

What I am trying to do is understand the psychic processes that might be driving this hate as it clearly has implications for future India-Pak relations as well as global security, given Pakistan is a nuclear state. The world has witnessed such dichotomous hate filled rhetoric against specific religious and ethnic groups in the past and such occasions have invariably been followed by large scale conflict and bloodshed. I believe whenever such emphasis on "difference" and hate of the 'other' (in this case, Hindus/Jews/West) becomes the predominant narrative that defines a nation's identity, there invariably comes a 'tipping point', when the nation becomes convinced that its destruction is imminent (due to projection of the death instinct) leading to conflict (Treaty of Versailles- War war 1 reparations- refusal to accept defeat leading to discontent within Germany and hostility towards the rest of Europe- persecution of the Jews as the 'other'- the concept of 'Aryan' genetic,martial and cultural superiority-Hitler becoming Chancellor in 1933 in Germany- exodus of Jews- World War II- extermination of Jews,Russians, Poles (Slavs), Sintis, homosexuals etc )

What helped Hitler's ideology thrive within Germany is the general acceptance of his hate filled rhetoric and the lack of any internal debate or dissent from an effective opposition that could challenge his views. In this I see parallels between erstwhile Germany and present day Pakistan, where the national psyche appears to be caught up in a sense of pervasive paranoia, where the default position appears to be based on the belief of a fundamental "difference" (superiority) of the Pakistani/Muslim 'race' over the darker, duller, weaker, conniving Hindus or the devious Jews and the West and every world event is examined in a very ego centric manner in the context of this deeply held belief.

When this pattern of black and white thinking becomes predominant, facts that do not conform with the fundamental belief (which is ego protective and is absolutely vital to the individual's existence), are rejected as "false" and conspiracy theories are arrived at to "explain" events in a manner that would allow them to be assimilated into the existing belief system.

This is why, IMO, conspiracy theories are more widespread in Pakistan. People have already made up their minds about Hindoos. Jews/the West and the way they perceive these groups has become absolutely integral to how Pakistani's define their own identity. Any fact that does not resonate with the stereotypes has to be rejected or an alternative explanation sought..

As SMC demonstrated very well in an earlier post, this leads to the tendency to arrive at the conclusion first and then "prove" facts in reverse..


Can the Pakistani members please state, hand on heart, that they genuinely consider the average Hindu or Jew to be more devious/greedy/whatever else you might imagine them to be than the average muslim?? If so, how do you explain it?

---------- Post added at 03:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:56 PM ----------

which conspiracy theories ?

That's precisely my point, my brother...

 

[SMC]

As SMC demonstrated very well in an earlier post, this leads to the tendency to arrive at the conclusion first and then "prove" facts in reverse..

And this can be attributed to all or nearly all Indians. So again, the high horse is no position to be in for Indians in the case. Case closed.

 

[aristocrat]

Pakistan is a declared national security state.Here r a few characteristics of a nss
* The first characteristic of a National Security State is that the military is the highest authority. In a National Security State the military not only guarantees the security of the state against all internal and external enemies, it has enough power to determine the overall direction of the society. In a National Security State the military exerts important influence over political, economic, as well as military affairs.

* A second defining feature of a National Security State is that political democracy and democratic elections are viewed with suspicion, contempt, or in terms of political expediency. National Security States often maintain an appearance of democracy. However, ultimate power rests with the military or within a broader National Security Establishment.

* A third characteristic of a National Security State is that the military and related sectors wield substantial political and economic power. They do so in the context of an ideology which stresses that 'freedom" and "development" are possible only when capital is concentrated in the hands of elites.

* A fourth feature of a National Security State is its obsession with enemies. There are enemies of the state everywhere. Defending against external and/or internal enemies becomes a leading preoccupation of the state, a distorting factor in the economy, and a major source of national identity and purpose.

* A fifth ideological foundation of a National Security State is that the enemies of the state are cunning and ruthless. Therefore, any means used to destroy or control these enemies is justified.

* A sixth characteristic of a National Security State is that it restricts public debate and limits popular participation through secrecy or intimidation. Authentic democracy depends on participation of the people. National Security States limit such participation in a number of ways: They sow fear and thereby narrow the range of public debate; they restrict and distort information; and they define policies in secret and implement those policies through covert channels and clandestine activities. The state justifies such actions through rhetorical pleas of "higher purpose" and vague appeals to "national security."

* Finally, the church is expected to mobilize its financial, ideological, and theological resources in service to the National Security State.[replace church by fundamentalists or whatever u deem appropriate]
National Security State - SourceWatch
This sheds some light on as to y conspiracy theories r popular in pak.

 

[temujin]

And this can be attributed to all or nearly all Indians. So again, the high horse is no position to be in for Indians in the case. Case closed.

Care to explain?? I personally only believe in information that is held as credible by the mainstream majority and backed by substantial evidence (eye witness accounts, recorded transcripts etc) but I realise what's credible for Indians and the West may not be credible for others. As far as I can see, there is no evidence, not even provided by those putting forward such CTs, to support some of the ideas banded around in Pakistan (unless you know something I don`t)..

Every govt engages in propoganda and misinformation and although people can occasionally get whipped up into a state of frenzy I don`t see any enduring mass hysteria about the 'foreign hand' gripping India nor have I encountered the visceral hate and racist beliefs, at least among my relations or those I meet during my visits to India, for muslims or other communities that many posters on here appear to harbour against Hindus/Jews/West. I believe it is this fundamental pattern of idolising "us" whilst on the other hand denigrating the 'other' and the tendency to project unpleasent emotions and "evil" on to others that makes certain societies especially vulnerable to such subvesive ideas.

What gets lost amidst all this is the ability to self reflect and recognising one's own short comings, which could then lead to lasting peace and reconciliation. The powers that be have a vested interest in keep society in this paranoid schizoid state of thinking as it let individuals avoid having to face up to their own failures, as a convenient "evil" enemy is always at hand to shoulder the blame.

 

[NWO]

* The first characteristic of a National Security State is that the military is the highest authority. In a National Security State the military not only guarantees the security of the state against all internal and external enemies, it has enough power to determine the overall direction of the society. In a National Security State the military exerts important influence over political, economic, as well as military affairs.

I don't know how the military, right now, are the highest authority. Kiyani has stated that he has no intention of taking Zardari out of power. Even Mushy, the great military leader, bowed down to public pressure, especially after 2007.

* A second defining feature of a National Security State is that political democracy and democratic elections are viewed with suspicion, contempt, or in terms of political expediency. National Security States often maintain an appearance of democracy. However, ultimate power rests with the military or within a broader National Security Establishment.

Anywhere where corruption is broad, the election are called into question. This includes the US.

* A third characteristic of a National Security State is that the military and related sectors wield substantial political and economic power. They do so in the context of an ideology which stresses that 'freedom" and "development" are possible only when capital is concentrated in the hands of elites.

Again, corruption. Same thing with China, India, Russia and US.

* A fourth feature of a National Security State is its obsession with enemies. There are enemies of the state everywhere. Defending against external and/or internal enemies becomes a leading preoccupation of the state, a distorting factor in the economy, and a major source of national identity and purpose.

Obsession with enemies. Gee, wonder what else Pakistan should do with 30,000+ dead.

* A fifth ideological foundation of a National Security State is that the enemies of the state are cunning and ruthless. Therefore, any means used to destroy or control these enemies is justified.

Err, wrong. Not many Pakistani consider India to cunning and ruthless. Well, maybe ruthless. But not cunning. And most Pakistani would be opposed to using nukes to strike India, except for a self-defense kind of situation. So, no, Pakistan does not wish to use any method available to wipe out 'enemies'.

* A sixth characteristic of a National Security State is that it restricts public debate and limits popular participation through secrecy or intimidation. Authentic democracy depends on participation of the people. National Security States limit such participation in a number of ways: They sow fear and thereby narrow the range of public debate; they restrict and distort information; and they define policies in secret and implement those policies through covert channels and clandestine activities. The state justifies such actions through rhetorical pleas of "higher purpose" and vague appeals to "national security."

Lol, since China is a single party rule, then they must worse then Pakistan. In fact, US is also bad with only two major parties. At least Pakistan has several political parties.

* Finally, the church is expected to mobilize its financial, ideological, and theological resources in service to the National Security State.

Plenty of Pakistani do not want to see the Zia type sharia laws return. And many Mullahs, probably most of them, work against the government.

All you have done is point out the characteristic of a NSS state, but haven't said they relate to Pakistan.

 

[NWO]

What gets lost amidst all this is the ability to self reflect and recognising one's own short comings, which could then lead to lasting peace and reconciliation. The powers that be have a vested interest in keep society in this paranoid schizoid state of thinking as it let individuals avoid having to face up to their own failures, as a convenient "evil" enemy is always at hand to shoulder the blame.

And, what has India faced except one single war with China and several with Pakistan? Pakistan, on the other hand, has had to fight enemies many time larger, (India, Soviet Union), has not been very liked by Western citizens, never really had much of a diplomatic leverage, and is now paying for the WOT in the tens of thousands.

The reason India doesn't have to be alert as Pakistan is because India has the luxury to be relaxed.

 

[karan.1970]

And, what has India faced except one single war with China and several with Pakistan? Pakistan, on the other hand, has had to fight enemies many time larger, (India, Soviet Union), has not been very liked by Western citizens, never really had much of a diplomatic leverage, and is now paying for the WOT in the tens of thousands.

The reason India doesn't have to be alert as Pakistan is because India has the luxury to be relaxed.

May be its something to do with the policies that Pakistan followed in past (sometimes at behest of USA) that led to this situation?

I think the full hearted participation in WOT is the only way out.

In past, Pakistan went with short term gain via Taliban that resulted in long term pain.

WOT is causing an immidiate short term pain, but I believe in long term gain.. Only if Pakistan stays the course..