What's new

Why Arabs lost all its wars to Israel despite outnumbering Israel in weapons and manpower?

500 was a lot more realistic than him so he after being unable to destroy hezbolah in Lebanon is going to take all Syria and then attack turkey

And then he'll "crush" Turkey too :lol:

500 was a person who served in IDF and was mature. I disagreed with lots of his opinions but he was no fanyboy.

This dude is a just a Jewish fanboy putting Israel on such a high pedestal.

He similar to indians who regard their country as "super power" .........
 
Dayan, for long Israel’s icon, was unnerved by the situation Israel now found itself in. Military intelligence had what was supposed to be a fail-safe system that would let it know if the Arabs planned to attack in ample time to mobilize the reserves. It had failed to activate the system because premature activation risked its exposure and Gen. Zeira, despite all the evidence, did not believe the Arabs would dare attack. For two days or so, Dayan suffered a failure of nerve and spread despondency among his peers by warning that Israel faced destruction. When he spoke to the inner cabinet after returning from flying visits to both fronts Sunday morning Meir, who had dark thoughts enough of her own, listened to him “in horror,” as she would write. She would acknowledge that she had thoughts of suicide.

When Meir asked Dayan what his reaction would be if the UN ordered a ceasefire, he said he would grab it

As the cabinet meeting broke up, she telephoned her long-time aide, Ms. Lou Kedar, whose office was next door. “Meet me in the corridor,” she said. There were other people still in Meir’s office and she wanted a private space. Although she had the country’s top political and military advisers on hand she could share her deepest feelings only with an old friend. When Kedar emerged into the corridor, Meir was already waiting for her. Kedar was shocked at her pallor, which matched the gray jacket she was wearing. There was despair in her face. Kedar would remember the prime minister leaning heavily against the wall and saying in a low and terrible voice, “Dayan is speaking of surrender.”

If Dayan had used that word, it is inconceivable that he used it in the conventional sense and none of the many other people who had been in the room would ever suggest he did. But he had spoken of surrendering territory — pulling back from the Bar-Lev Line — and of his belief that it would be impossible to force the Egyptians back across the canal. When Meir asked what his reaction would be if the UN ordered a ceasefire, he said he would grab it. He offered his resignation but she rejected it.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/three-...r-understood-how-war-could-have-been-avoided/

And then :"all of a sudden" they won!? Any sane, objective and rational person would understand from these lines what have really happened.. Israel lost the war from the start, and diplomacy manoeuvring, mainly by Kissinger the Russians and Sadat that saved it and allowed it to save face..
 
Last edited:
That assessment is wrong and purely romanticized version of Israeli narrative.

I have taken MULTIPLE courses in Israeli history, worked with professors who have played important role in Israeli defence establishment, and have even studied along side some IDF soldiers.

All of what you have written is plain wrong. Facts of history are different, and often favoring Israel over Arab countries.

No credit taken away from Israel--but let's not drool over Israel and its romanticized vision that you might like to have in your mind.

I'm sorry but it is a very common attitude among Pakistanis (and people who have involvement in the Israel conflict) to find narratives where the superiority of Israel, especially interns of human factors is rushed down. Israel Arab difference really is the difference between alexander the great and Darius in some sense. You deploy disorganized and politically divided masses of soldiers against a foe thinking that numbers will give you easy victory. Obviously the scheming within the states and political leaders should not have been missed by you in any reading of the history? The Israeli, on the other hand did put a far greater emphasis on unity, valor and extreme willingness to die. This was the exact opposite of the Arab forces. Is it not true that once the reverses started they were ready to surrender? Is it not true that the Israeli state continues to be more willing to sacrifice it's people and interests than any other state in the region? take syria for instance- Assad presides over the massacre of 1000s of his people just to hold on to power. Do you think the jews would allow that? A netanyahu, no matter how much you hate him, would rather resign and wait for a time when he regains his people's confidence than allow the state to go to the drains. (of course you'll give some lame explanation to counter this too)

The reason why you can't accept it is because you can't find the narrative fitting your 'pet' images of jews- cowards, manipulators, given to only wheeling and dealing behind the scenes. You will have no problems if their victory is attributable to 'american weapons' or external factors, but traits of the jewish character is one you can't expect to give victory right?

Arguably the very root of that was the unfortunate strain among the jews to not consolidate their civilization and values in a state of their own. The consequences were clear, and while I have nothing except sympathy for the Palestinians, there really was no alternative outcome possible.

Dayan, for long Israel’s icon, was unnerved by the situation Israel now found itself in. Military intelligence had what was supposed to be a fail-safe system that would let it know if the Arabs planned to attack in ample time to mobilize the reserves. It had failed to activate the system because premature activation risked its exposure and Gen. Zeira, despite all the evidence, did not believe the Arabs would dare attack. For two days or so, Dayan suffered a failure of nerve and spread despondency among his peers by warning that Israel faced destruction. When he spoke to the inner cabinet after returning from flying visits to both fronts Sunday morning Meir, who had dark thoughts enough of her own, listened to him “in horror,” as she would write. She would acknowledge that she had thoughts of suicide.

When Meir asked Dayan what his reaction would be if the UN ordered a ceasefire, he said he would grab it

As the cabinet meeting broke up, she telephoned her long-time aide, Ms. Lou Kedar, whose office was next door. “Meet me in the corridor,” she said. There were other people still in Meir’s office and she wanted a private space. Although she had the country’s top political and military advisers on hand she could share her deepest feelings only with an old friend. When Kedar emerged into the corridor, Meir was already waiting for her. Kedar was shocked at her pallor, which matched the gray jacket she was wearing. There was despair in her face. Kedar would remember the prime minister leaning heavily against the wall and saying in a low and terrible voice, “Dayan is speaking of surrender.”

If Dayan had used that word, it is inconceivable that he used it in the conventional sense and none of the many other people who had been in the room would ever suggest he did. But he had spoken of surrendering territory — pulling back from the Bar-Lev Line — and of his belief that it would be impossible to force the Egyptians back across the canal. When Meir asked what his reaction would be if the UN ordered a ceasefire, he said he would grab it. He offered his resignation but she rejected it.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/three-...r-understood-how-war-could-have-been-avoided/
And then :"all of a sudden" they won!? Any sane, objective and rational person would understand from these lines what have really happened.. Israel lost the war from the start, and diplomacy manoeuvring, mainly by Kissinger the Russians and Sadat that saved it and allowed it to save face..

Being afraid in the face of great odds is not a crime. Fighting on in the face of such horrific odds is true bravery.
 
EXCLUSIVE: How Richard Nixon Helped Save Israel (EXCERPT)

Stone was a close confidante and adviser to Nixon during his post-presidency.

Below is an exclusive excerpt where Stone writes of President Nixon’s support of Israel during the Yom Kippur War, despite much opposition from both his Cabinet and Congress.

At 6 a.m. on Saturday October 6, 1973 White House Chief of Staff Alexander Haig woke up President Nixon at his home in California with news that Egypt and Syria had attacked Israel.

The news of Middle East aggression shocked the American foreign policy and intelligence communities to such an extent that a study prepared by the CIA Center for the Study of Intelligence in conjunction with the Nixon Presidential Library concluded, “To intelligence historians, the October 1973 war is almost synonymous with ‘intelligence failure.'”

It became clear in the hours after the attack that the Arabs had surprised Israeli forces and the Israeli state faced the greatest threat to its survival since the original war of independence three decades earlier. Along the border with Syria, along the so-called Golan Heights, 180 Israeli tanks faced 1,400 Syrian tanks supplied by the Soviet Union; likewise Egypt crossed the Suez with 80,000 soldiers facing little Israeli opposition.

In the days following the Yom Kippur attacks Israel suffered a number of setbacks, and Washington became increasingly concerned. Nixon alone concluded that the US must step in to back Israel against Arab forces whose primary military supplier was the Soviet Union—the 1973 war became more than just necessary to save the Jewish state, it became a struggle between the world’s preeminent Super Powers. Kissinger opposed the US action.

It is one of history’s great ironies that Nixon’s proposed airlift played an integral role in the salvation of the Jewish state, as in the years since the release of the Watergate Tapes it has become one of the established facts of the Nixon mythos that the president was a raving anti-Semite. The tapes continue to damn Nixon, who maintained a cognitive dissonance when it came to several prominent Jewish members of his senior staff-Kissinger, White House counsel Leonard Garment, and speechwriter William Safire as well as economist Herb Stein.

In one rant from 1971, Nixon railed against the Jews who in his estimation were both “all over the government” and disloyal, he told Haldeman that the Jews needed to be controlled by placing someone at the top “who is not Jewish.” Incredible, given the position in which he would find himself in two short years, Nixon would argue to Haldeman that, “most Jews are disloyal,” and “generally speaking, you can’t trust the bastards. They turn on you.” In another exchange, just months before the 1973 war, Nixon rants to Kissinger about American Jews and what he saw as their selfish view of foreign policy.

On a call on April 19, 1973, Nixon revealed a concern that American Jews would “torpedo” a US-Soviet summit vowing that, “If they torpedo this summit… I’m gonna put the blame on them, and I’m going to do it publicly at nine o’clock at night before eighty million people”. Then, perhaps most damning, Nixon would go on to argue, “I won’t mind one goddamn bit to have a little anti-Semitism if it’s on that issue… they put the Jewish interest above America’s interest and it’s about goddamn time that the Jew in America realizes he’s an American first and a Jew second.”

Yet, Nixon would play a pivotal role in protecting the Jewish state, as Nixon recognized that the defeat of Israel was unthinkable for US interests. Nixon went to Congress to request authorization for emergency aid for Israel despite the Gulf States announcing a price increase of seventy percent in the wake of the Arab assault. After Nixon went to Congress for authorization, the Gulf States responded vigorously, announcing a total boycott of the United States, causing the oil shock of 1973.

The Gulf States’ retaliation simply served to further entrench the opposition of many who had fought to slow or halt the shipment of weapons to the Israelis (the former being represented by Secretary of State and National Security Advisor Kissinger, the latter being represented by Secretary of Defense Schlesinger). Nixon hit the roof when he learned that Kissinger was delaying the airlift because of a concern that it would offend the Russians. Despite the opposition of his national security and foreign policy brain trust, Nixon ordered the airlift, saying, “We are going to get blamed just as much for three planes as for three hundred,” and later in exasperation at the slow start of US support, said “Use every [plane] we have—everything that will fly.”

Finally, after several days of internal politicking amongst the upper echelons of the Administration, Nixon got his airlift: “Operation Nickel Grass.” Over the course of the airlift 567 missions were flown, delivering over 22,000 tons of supplies, and an additional 90,000 tons were delivered to Israel by sea. Later in her life, Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir would admit that upon hearing of the airlift during a cabinet meeting, she began to cry.

Nixon’s loyalty drove him to save a US ally from the threat of utter destruction despite the real risk of economic crisis, and political cost to himself. To borrow the phrase from the Kennedy clan, Nixon’s decision to aid Israel was a true “profile in courage.”

https://www.algemeiner.com/2014/08/11/exclusive-how-richard-nixon-helped-save-israel-excerpt/
Anyone on the forum who can challenge these facts and the ones in post # 200?
This is no child's play if you have facts, you are welcome..
This thread has a false (troll) title because it is just not true..

I'm sorry but it is a very common attitude among Pakistanis (and people who have involvement in the Israel conflict) to find narratives where the superiority of Israel, especially interns of human factors is rushed down. Israel Arab difference really is the difference between alexander the great and Darius in some sense. You deploy disorganized and politically divided masses of soldiers against a foe thinking that numbers will give you easy victory. Obviously the scheming within the states and political leaders should not have been missed by you in any reading of the history? The Israeli, on the other hand did put a far greater emphasis on unity, valor and extreme willingness to die. This was the exact opposite of the Arab forces. Is it not true that once the reverses started they were ready to surrender? Is it not true that the Israeli state continues to be more willing to sacrifice it's people and interests than any other state in the region? take syria for instance- Assad presides over the massacre of 1000s of his people just to hold on to power. Do you think the jews would allow that? A netanyahu, no matter how much you hate him, would rather resign and wait for a time when he regains his people's confidence than allow the state to go to the drains. (of course you'll give some lame explanation to counter this too)

The reason why you can't accept it is because you can't find the narrative fitting your 'pet' images of jews- cowards, manipulators, given to only wheeling and dealing behind the scenes. You will have no problems if their victory is attributable to 'american weapons' or external factors, but traits of the jewish character is one you can't expect to give victory right?

Arguably the very root of that was the unfortunate strain among the jews to not consolidate their civilization and values in a state of their own. The consequences were clear, and while I have nothing except sympathy for the Palestinians, there really was no alternative outcome possible.



Being afraid in the face of great odds is not a crime. Fighting on in the face of such horrific odds is true bravery.

Now you say "Great odds"!? They were supposed to be invincible against the Arabs or that is what they thought and made the West masses think..

Read post #202 to see how, why and by which means they continued the war, otherwise it should be recognized that for a strong leader of Usrael to think about committing suicide and her defence minister asking her to surrender to the Arabs or to accept his resignation, Usrael had to be facing very great odds ...
They were brave, because they were facing total defeat and surrender (and guess to whom? their sworn ennemies the Arabs), and mainly when they had the full and inconditional backing of the US.: Even a mouse becomes brave if you corner him somewhere with no escape, more brave if you give him cat's claws..
 
Last edited:
we pushed into Sinai without air cover because the bad position Syria was in under pressure from the soviets and arabs that did make some problems with us but in the end nothing we cant handle by the end of the war

isreal couldn't use nukes unless arabs are inside isreal it is not that simple
that was the plan from the start to retake Sinai by negotiations no one said anything about retaking all of Sinai by the military we did not have the air force or mobile air defense to go deep into Sinai

You pushed into the Sinai with air cover that was quickly destroyed by our forces
For example- Ofira Air Battle, 2 Israeli Phantoms against 20 MiG 17s and 8 MiG 21s, result? 7 Egyptians down, none Israeli
In the sea? Battle of Baltim, 3 Osa boats sunk against a few Saar ships
What about Egyptian 25th Brigade ambush? when 3 Israeli tanks were destroyed and 60 Egyptian tanks destroyed, and other military vehicles?

"Unless arabs are inside Israel"
Ahahaha, why you think like that?
You did not have the air force because we destroyed, you DID try to retake all the Sinai as you said, " we pushed into Sinai"

Interesting ....did you read Pakistani pilot comment, about Egyptian pilots, served during Arab-Israel war ? ...(few year ago someone senior member posted in this forum).
No I didn't , no idea what you are talking about

lol, I was gonna reply to you but then I read the last part and thought not to engage with a zealous fanboy.

Have you seen the size and strength of Turkish navy? Turks will be in Tel Aviv by the time you'd finalize your brilliant plan to reach Turkish border via Syria by spreading out your already small forces.

And since when your 120,000 proper land forces became 'superior' to Turkey's 400,000+ land forces armed and trained along NATO standards?

Do you know--in 1948--we (our irregular tribals+ sprinkle of regular troops) conquered 4x the size of entire Israel in the Northern region (Now called Gilgit-Baltistan. Beautiful land!). We still hold it (while indians hold the rest of kashmir valley and Jamu).

Point is, Jews barely got a state of their own..and that too a small, tiny land with not even 10 million citizens.

For you to think you can just "crush" historical superpowers and modern day regional powers like Turkey etc is only reflective of why Jews could never get their own state and were decimated by big boys in the town (Some big boys like the Turks saved Jews by sending their naval fleet to Spain. Read up). Don't act like the kid who got a lottery and now thinks he is the same league as self-made millionaires.

Show up humility and sense of reality.

Turkey is a far more balanced power--with land area, population, military, international ties, military experience, and historical knowledge of ruling/navigating the region you call Israel now.

You don't want to find out what happens in a Turkey vs Israel war. It's for your own sake.

Size? does this mean anything?
Israel got medium fast quick ships with full air cover while you have large slow ships that have equal armament but not technology
Do you understand Israel have nukes? Israel already mounted long range guided artillery missiles on its boats, called "Predator hawks" and Iron Dome, with plans to put new made Iron Beam on it, laser defense

How will you be in Tel Aviv?
if Israel already either nukes you or destroys your navy with either its most advanced submarines made by Germany called the Dolphin class, can destroy your whole navy either with torpedoes, or just launch a nuclear armed Turbo Popeye missile in the middle of its navy

"And since when your 120,000 proper land forces became 'superior' to Turkey's 400,000+ land forces armed and trained along NATO standards?"
You know that Israel have 160,000 active military personal, and 630,000 reserves, all armed with the most modern weapons?
That's way more than Turkish both active and reserve military personal
We have more fighter aircraft, more tanks, more APCs and IFVs, all of them are better than yours, defense systems, NUKES

"Do you know--in 1948--we (our irregular tribals+ sprinkle of regular troops) conquered 4x the size of entire Israel in the Northern region (Now called Gilgit-Baltistan. Beautiful land!). We still hold it (while indians hold the rest of kashmir valley and Jamu)."
You know that we conquered land mass 3 times our own size from countries with 100 times our population and size?
Unlike you that you are equal size?

10 million citizens beat up 300 million

"
Turkey is a far more balanced power--with land area, population, military, international ties, military experience, and historical knowledge of ruling/navigating the region you call Israel now."
I already proved that land mass and population do not matter, our military is stronger, you only got stronger international ties with the Arabs, while we are allies with Greece, Cyprus, the US, Russia (We are not allies, but we both hate the Turks), Germany and more?
I've been in military training with foreign NATO armies, including German and American, and they told us that we are in another class, by the quality of training, soldiers and equipment.
You might not forget how we beat the Americans up in air to air fights 60 to 1, in Blue Flag?
 
You pushed into the Sinai with air cover that was quickly destroyed by our forces
For example- Ofira Air Battle, 2 Israeli Phantoms against 20 MiG 17s and 8 MiG 21s, result? 7 Egyptians down, none Israeli
In the sea? Battle of Baltim, 3 Osa boats sunk against a few Saar ships
What about Egyptian 25th Brigade ambush? when 3 Israeli tanks were destroyed and 60 Egyptian tanks destroyed, and other military vehicles?

"Unless arabs are inside Israel"
Ahahaha, why you think like that?
You did not have the air force because we destroyed, you DID try to retake all the Sinai as you said, " we pushed into Sinai"



?
there are many battles if you want to mention 1 by 1 we should talk about destroying the barliv line the isreali counter attack the battle for suez and ismalia the mansora air battle
I said the plan was to advance within the cover of our SAMs
if you think that using nuclear weapons is that simple you are wrong
 
You dont understand the game, do you? Arab want entire Israel. Thats why they will shove Gaza and Westbank inside Israel (2 state solution is a ploy). More muslim live in greater palestine than jews. Israel will eventually collapse.
Declaring the State of Israel was more of a matter of necessity than of choice: the British weren't staying and the surrounding Arab states (and much of the Arab populace in the Mandate) lusted for Jewish blood. However, not only has Israel survived generations surrounded and even infested with such hostility, it has even thrived.

Nor, I'm sure, are the Arabs the first to bray that Israel would disappear. The post-Alexander Macedonian Greeks ruling the region thought the same 2,200 years ago. The Maccabees drove them out and kept them out. While much grief has happened to Jews since, today more people speak Hebrew than Greek.
 
In 1973 war Egyptian 3rd army is trap in Sinai, did really American threatened Israel so that not to destroy the 3rd army.
 
In 1973 war Egyptian 3rd army is trap in Sinai, did really American threatened Israel so that not to destroy the 3rd army.
The U.S. told Israel it would not allow the encircle Egyptian Army to be starved into submission IF Sadat agreed to be cooperative in reducing Communist influence in the region. By that the U.S. meant it would provide the trapped army food and water, by airdrops if necessary. But that alone wasn't enough to entice Israel from pressing forward to achieve another smashing victory.

Rather, in exchange for not embarrassing Egypt or conquering Damascus the U.S. promised to arm Israel so it would become the preeminent military power in the region, capable of defeating handily any likely combination of its enemies. This compromise Israel's leaders accepted, and from that day to this neither the U.S. nor Israel has neglected it - the closest to doing so was the Reagan Administration's temporary suspension of F-16s after Israel used them to destroy Iraq's Osirak nuclear reactor.
 
Last edited:
The U.S. told Israel it would not allow the encircle Egyptian Army to be starved into submission IF Sadat agreed to be cooperative in reducing Communist influence in the region. By that the U.S. meant it would provide the trapped army food and water, by airdrops if necessary. But that alone wasn't enough to entice Israel from pressing forward to achieve another smashing victory.

Rather, in exchange for not embarrassing Egypt or conquering Damascus the U.S. promised to arm Israel so it would become the preeminent military power in the region, capable of defeating handily any likely combination of its enemies. This compromise Israel's leaders accepted, and from that day to this neither the U.S. nor Israel has neglected it - the closest to doing so was the Reagan Administration's temporary suspension of F-16s after Israel used them to destroy Iraq's Osirak nuclear reactor.
may I remind you that isreal has broken the cease fire to better their condition before the war ended
the 3rd army
the most important thing to know is by the end and with the high isreali losses and limited manpower they could not afford more losses they were stretched from Sinai to the other side of the canal
no one can know for sure what would happen if they attack it our army after all we done in the war has proven it is worth this time was trained better under much wiser command and willing to fight till the death if they attempt to starve the 3rd army they would enter a war of attrition and we all know they cant afford
 
may I remind you that isreal has broken the cease fire to better their condition before the war ended
the 3rd army
the most important thing to know is by the end and with the high isreali losses and limited manpower they could not afford more losses they were stretched from Sinai to the other side of the canal
no one can know for sure what would happen if they attack it our army after all we done in the war has proven it is worth this time was trained better under much wiser command and willing to fight till the death if they attempt to starve the 3rd army they would enter a war of attrition and we all know they cant afford

A surrounded army in the desert without supplies and water is soon a dead army.
Without water, the Army is dead in a week.
But as Solomon2 said, the U.S. wanted a certain outcome and made sure
the outcome would be acceptable both to Egypt and Israel.
 
But not:
When the Assyrian empire attacked the ancient kingdom of Israel
When the Babylonian Empire attacked the ancient kingdom of Judah
When the Romans destroyed Jerusalem
When the Spaniards killed deported and converted Jews
When the Germans burned and choked the Jews
etc etc....


There is much more believe me


But hey
One prophecy came true and we are back in Israel
Do you know the next prophecy? 1,44000 Jews will be converted to Christianity and Jesus will return.(Reason why a majority of American Christians support Israel is to bring about the end of the world)....the rest of the Jews along with the Muslims and Pastafarians will burn...now god forbid one President gets to office who is nutty enough to think that he will bring the Messiah back!
 
Back
Top Bottom