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Who's the rogue superpower?

不战而屈人之兵,攻心为上,这些老祖宗流传下来的政治智慧在现在的南海战略中是丝毫未见,反而是树敌无数,疲于奔命,愚蠢啊.....:disagree:

Sun Tzu would weep. :azn:

Although maybe the CCP is hiding some trick up it's sleeve regarding the South China Sea?

It looks bad on the surface, but maybe there is some underlying strategy behind the CCP's claims in that region...
 
Sun Tzu would weep. :azn:

Although maybe the CCP is hiding some trick up it's sleeve regarding the South China Sea?

It looks bad on the surface, but maybe there is some underlying strategy behind the CCP's claims in that region...

You come from HK and the solution of Manila hostage incident showed the attitude of Philippine new president to China :rolleyes:
 
You come from HK and the solution of Manila hostage incident showed the attitude of Philippine new president to China :rolleyes:

I always thought that was more about incompetence rather than anything else. Although of course, I was angry when I saw President Aquino grinning like a Jack-o-Lantern on the news, so maybe you have a point there.

There are so many "Philippino maids" in Hong Kong though, that I don't think a diplomatic row could really escalate that much.

However I think the CCP might still have some trick up its sleeve, regarding the South China Sea. I don't know what it is though...
 
I have also on this matter (South China Sea) pondered, and a thought, a possibility occurred.

Always assuming that it is rational, considered act rather than internal powerplay and/ or factional interest (both strong possibilities), this may be one way to interpret it.

Looking at recent 'heating up' of SCS disputes, one note that there isn't much that is fresh. Apart from the obvious new US intrusion, nothing else is really new. ASEAN Military exercises with US had long tradition and are yearly events; Vietnam talking of foreign basing for many years; China and ASEAN countries have had tit-a-tat governmental proclaimations of sovereignty (Philippines parliament law; Sansha municipality) for some years; and work group between China and ASEAN have been discussing matters for years.

So the main area of real interest here is American meddling. Putting that aside let's consider response of PRC.

Vietnam is nation with strongest interest in dispute, claiming vast sections of SCS second only to China herself. And indeed is Vietnam that is making strongest noise. After that comes the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia in order of decreasing interest.

Vietnam is traditionally most hostile (despite strong economic and growing political ties) power in ASEAN (apart from Singapore) to China. Also along with Philippines the nations with the most amount of day-to-day clash with Chinese interests, fishing rights disputes as the three regularly detain each other's fishermen (with no lasting damage to either same fishermen or relations in most cases). They push for strongest both outside ASEAN and joint ASEAN stance against China. They have the strongest interest to do so, with a similar but much less interest in Malaysia and a MUCH less interest in Indonesia.

Consider other nations of ASEAN. Myamar is wary of China but fairly dependent, and certainly not willing to antagonise China on matter not touching its interests. Thailand is very friendly to China. Cambodia and Laos are both to a greater or lesser extent dependent on China. Singapore has traditional hostility to China but strong economic ties means it picks its battles, and SCS is not one that concerns it too much, though they will perhaps be mildly in favour. Indonesia and Malaysia are for similar reasons lukewarm - some wariness, but China is far away and economic ties are strong. Brunei, also same.

So what happens when one or two members in a 10 member club pushes for strong measures, 2 or 3 others are mildly in favour while the rest, at least half, are really against?

Food for thought.

Consider as thought experiment for example what if Vietnam tried to introduce SCS sovereignty dispute into ASEAN agenda and try to force a common policy (nevermind between members there are disputes also) and common front against China?

Put this way perhaps it becomes clearer.


Of course this is only possibility. Always possible that merely powerplay or factional interests are involved, and one should never look for more complication solutions where mere pigheadedness (aka nationalism) can adequately explain, or of course combination of above. Still useful mental experiment.
 
Who's the rogue superpower?


Here's something that probably won't shock you: I tend to agree with Paul Krugman more than I disagree with him. But not always. Case in point is his column last Sunday, which condemned China's hardline response to Japan's seizure of a Chinese trawler that had violated Japanese waters, and especially its decision to pressure Japan by cutting off the export of rare earth materials. He went on to criticize some other Chinese actions (including its chronically devalued currency), and said this added up to a picture of China as a "rogue economic superpower, unwilling to play by the rules."

I agree that China's overheated response to the trawler incident was foolish, if only because it will reinforce Asian concerns about China's rising power and make it more likely that other states will start taking concerted action to resist its influence. It's normal for great powers to throw their weight around -- if you don't believe me, just read a good history of U.S. relations with Latin America -- but doing so before one's power position is fully consolidated is a bad idea.

By the way, with the exception of the War of 1812, avoiding stupid quarrels with powerful countries was one of the smartest things that the United States did in its rise to superpower status. Not only did it avoid tangling with other major powers until after it had created the world's largest and most advanced economy, it also let the Eurasian powers bloody each other in ruinous wars, jumping in only when the balance of power was in jeopardy and leaving itself in a dominant position after both world wars (and especially WWII). This wasn't a perfect strategy, or even a noble one, but it was supremely self-interested approach that ensured U.S. primacy for decades.

If China's leaders are really smart, they'd act in a similar fashion today. They'd let the United States run itself to exhaustion in the Middle East, Central Asia, and elsewhere, while they stayed out of trouble, cultivated profitable relations with everyone, and made sure that their long-term development plans didn't get derailed. Picking fights with neighbors over minor issues is pointless, especially now, and on this point Krugman and I are in synch.

Where I part company is his characterization of China as a "rogue economic power," and his conclusion that "China's response to the trawler incident is… further evidence that the world's newest economic superpower isn't prepared to assume the responsibilities that go with that status."

For starters, this view assumes that China (or any other great power) has "responsibilities" to the global community. U.S. leaders like to proclaim that we have enormous "responsibilities" and "obligations" to the rest of the world, but this is usually just a phrase our leaders use to justify actions taken for our own (supposed) benefit. The leaders of any country are primarily responsible to their own citizens, which is why international cooperation is often elusive and why conflicts of interest routinely arise between sovereign states.

Moreover, the declaration that China is a rogue power that isn't "playing by the rules" neglects to mention that 1) many of these rules were devised by the United States and its allies and not by China, and 2) the United States has been all too willing to ignore the rules when it suited us. We went to war against Serbia in 1999 and against Iraq in 2003 without authorization from the U.N. Security Council, for example, even though we helped write the U.N. Charter that says such actions are illegal. Similarly, the US played the leading role in devising the Bretton Woods economic system after World War II, but it abandoned the gold standard in 1971 when this arrangement was no longer convenient for us.

The real lesson of the trawler/rare earth incident is that great powers can ignore the rules when they think they have to, and they can often get away with it. We should therefore expect China's leaders to pursue whatever policies they believe are in their interests, whether or not those policies are good for us, good for the planet as a whole, or consistent with some prior set of norms or rules.

Here's a penetrating leap into the obvious: sometimes China's interests will converge with ours; at other times, they will diverge sharply. Sometimes China's leaders will calculate their interests carefully and adopt smart policies for achieving them; at other times they will make costly blunders. Ditto their counterparts in Washington: sometimes U.S. leaders will act with insight and foresight and sometimes they will stumble headlong into disaster. Welcome to the real world. The bottom line is that it's neither illuminating nor helpful to hold China to a standard of "responsible" behavior that we fall short of ourselves. I mean, which country is currently detaining foreigners without trial in Guantanamo, and firing drone missiles into any country where it thinks al Qaeda might be lurking?


There's only one superpower and the history of its birth says that it is a rogue state through and through.
 
Lets have a poll??

How many people think a demilitarized USA would be a better option for the world??

lets see how many global problems stem from us military machine??
 
China's attitude towards India is really stupid, they do not need Arnuchal Pradesh, neither do they care but still do not want to accept it. Also it does not matter to them what happens in Kashmir but they want to poke their nose.

You might want to look into who really is holding up the negotiation. China doesn't want Kashmir, it just isn't willing to let India walk over Pakistan. How is that unreasonable?
 
indianrabbit said:
China's attitude towards India is really stupid, they do not need Arnuchal Pradesh, neither do they care but still do not want to accept it. Also it does not matter to them what happens in Kashmir but they want to poke their nose.
India doesn't really need Kashmir and more importantly Kashmirs do not want India. Why not India come forward and admit its sick twisted expansionist agenda to restore the glory of hanuman kingdom???

You might want to look into who really is holding up the negotiation. China doesn't want Kashmir, it just isn't willing to let India walk over Pakistan. How is that unreasonable?

Thats what the allies are meant for. To safeguard and support each other..
Soviet union once depended on such an ally too..:rofl:
now they envy Pak-China friendship!


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You cannot compare the two powers. They are centuries apart, and this century is possibly of the greatest significance in Human history. The rapid advancements in science & technology have transformed everything. Numbers no longer matter as much they used to. What I know for sure is that USA will do everything it can to hold the biggest stick, even if that means cutting the other sticks.

US will keep going down if it keeps religionization of democracy and war machines... :hitwall:
 
The sun is setting on the US Empire just like it did last century on the British one.

British empire - rose 1840, consolidated 1857, greatest extent 1912, fell 1950.
US empire - rose 1945, consolidated 1975, greatest extent 1991, predicted fall 2030.

The time has changed.If the US falls,It'Ll take whole the world with it in to hell.Just as china or Russia.If any of them falls it'll be complete chaos around the world.
 

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