Who will Sikhs Support?

[Adwitiya]

Sikhs are better then Indians alot more sophisticated people of culture

Their music , movies and songs every thing is great even their business sense

Pata nahi man mohan ko kiya brain wash kiya hai

how can sikhs be better than Indians when they themselves are Indians. Divide and rule policy is some thing which worked in last century. try something new.

 

[Iqbal_Brar]

I ain't banned bro. I guess you got me mixed up with somebody else. And I am surely going to post a thoughtful reply to your post and continue our discussion.

Ok, I must have mistaken for someone else. Glad ure here.

It would have been done bro, but at a higher cost. Our earnings wouldn't have been the same. And our profits margins would have dipped.

And may be your uncles manage the farms and employ Punjabis but when the crunch time of harvesting or sowing arrives, these bhaiyyas are the ones who do the job.

No brother. Crunch time or not. Ok, this is how it works. We usually have employed a handful of people (like 4-5) who have been working for us for years and they look after the farms all year round. When harvest season arrives, than we temporarily hire a lot of people from the village at that time. They are all Punjabis, not Bhaiyyas. UP/Bihari bhaiyya are simply cheaper and they work harder that is why people hire them. Otherwise there is no shortness of punjabis to work your fields. because lets face it, not every punjabi pindoo is a landowner. And some have land but very little of it, so they have to work. It is only because this cheaper bihari/up bhaiyya option is there why people hire them, but if they were not, there are enough Punjabis to do the job. They just charge more for less.

Veer, you tend to oversimplify things. You forget that those killing the Sikh males were Sikh cops in Punjab Police and Sikh armymen. It wasn't a conspiracy against the Sikh Quam as its made out to be. Those were just bad times where one Sikh was after another's life. As they say..."Je Sikh Sikh nu Na Mare, Taan Qaum Kade Na Haare!"

Those so called "Sikhs" like KPS Gill are hardly Sikhs. Even you know that they did not even fight for the sake of India, they only fought for themselves, for medals and promotions. That was time when every lower rank Police officer reached high ranks like DSP and SSP. Now tell me how many of those Police officers are true amrit-shak Sikhs? Heck, look at the SS Mann, he was one man who was at such a high rank, he was IGP and later Commandant of Punjab armed police and later the ISF; yet after Blue star even he resigned, a person with such high achievements must have had good reason to resign no? Than look at General Shabeg Singh. He was a man who fought wars for India, he even won gallantry awards, he was a high ranking military officer, he too joined Bhindrawala and helped him set up his defences. There is a very good reason why such patriotic men ended up taking arms against the government bro. And also, the army which attacked Golden Temple was made up of Biharis. Why was Sikh regiment not called to assault Golden Temple?? It only seems reasonable that they would get Sikh regiment to assault since those are the soldiers who know how to tread into that place with respect. And sore truth is, that Indian army was afraid that its Sikh regiment would revolt if it was deployed in Punjab. (Because units of Sikh regiment started revolting who were deployed outside Punjab). The truth is, Sikh sensibilities were brushed aside, and Sikhs were brutally crushed by the army and the police, not only the militants, but whole Sikh community was harassed and made a target. Infact, every baptized Sikh was made a target.

And even if what you say is true, then what happened in the 90's? There was no pressure on parents in the 90's. Those were peaceful times. But the turbaned Sikh continued to be pushed towards the minority.

I grew up in the 90s. Sikhs were harassed all through out the early 90s, I still remember having to go through numerous Police checkpoints when driving to the village from the city. After every kilometer Police used to have checkposts set up, and in nighttime, they would harass you. It was only later 90s when things calmed down, but that was when RSS and BJP came into Punjab with full force. At a time when Sikhs had been brutally assaulted, the Hindus organizations came in preaching how Sikhs are only sect of Hindus, and being a sardar became something to laugh at. Bollywood too if you notice started showing sardars as jokers starting in 90s alone. Before that time, all the old Hindi movies did not stereotype sardars as such.

And whose fault do you think it is that today a Sikh's faith and pride is so weak that it is shaken by Bollywood's portrayal of Sikhs? We have seen centuries of persecution at the hands of the Mughals. Our ancestors gave away their heads but didn't lose their turbans. And we cut our hair just because of a stupid movie or a decade of violence?

Its not just a stupid movie, it is mass propaganda. Even Hitler said if you repeat one thing enough times, people will start to believe it. Propaganda is whole different level than physical persecution. Like Bhindrawala said, "Physical death I do not fear, but death of conscience is a sure death". Well, the Hindu media has been giving Sikhi a death of conscience and they have done a good job at it. Today, lets face it, a religious baptized Sikh is portrayed as an extremist.

Lets be strong bro. If we are strong about who we are no foreign force can shake us. If we allow everybody to worship in the gurudwara and dont ban the Majhabis, there aint have been a Ram Rahim.

We never ban the Mazhabis and we allow everyone to come worship in the Gurudwara. But if a mazhabi is going to demand that he be allowed to worship as a mazhabi, or a ravi dasi that he be allowed o worship as a ravi dasi, than obviously that will be a problem, because Sikhism rejects casteism, and they try to bring it into mainstream. There are ethnic groups which do exist, like Jatts, Tarkhans, Chamaars, etc; but keep all that stuff out of the gurudwaras. And to all the people that say that Jatts run the Sikh religion, than all i can say is that it is only because Jatts are in large number who are well off. Forget religion, even Punjab politics is run by Jatts, why are they not able to raise an issue there? Go build their own parties, why invade the Sikh religion with sectarianism?

 

[Iqbal_Brar]

As for other people here; our problems are not a joke. It is offensive to see Pakistanis and Indians talking about Sikhs like this. It may feel good for both pakistanis and indians to spread your own nationalistic view over Sikhs but it is stupid. Neither majority of pakistanis nor majority of indians here know anything about Sikh issues, and yet they gloat over our fight.

 

[Adwitiya]

As for other people here; our problems are not a joke. It is offensive to see Pakistanis and Indians talking about Sikhs like this. It may feel good for both pakistanis and indians to spread your own nationalistic view over Sikhs but it is stupid. Neither majority of pakistanis nor majority of indians here know anything about Sikh issues, and yet they gloat over our fight.

Nopes actually they are also the views of the Sikhs in the sub continent. Some online buggers sitting overseas who have nothing else to do are just involved in that. They are asking for a land in which they are not going to live.No one in India and pakistan wants it as of now.

 

[asq]

Well let me put here the facts of history which tells us that at the time of Sikh rule in Pujab, the attacks came from Dogras and from Bengal regiment under the British command.

On Sikh side there were Muslim Pashtunes and Muslim Punjabis.

Read on and know the facts. Learn the truth about who was who and how Hindu join with English in bengal regiment to fight sikhs, on the other hand Muslims Pashtunes and punjabis joined Sikh Armies to defend Punjab.

First Anglo-Sikh War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Justin Joseph]

Well let me put here the facts of history which tells us that at the time of Sikh rule in Pujab, the attacks came from Dogras and from Bengal regiment under the British command.

On Sikh side there were Muslim Pashtunes and Muslim Punjabis.

Read on and know the facts. Learn the truth about who was who and how Hindu join with English in bengal regiment to fight sikhs, on the other hand Muslims Pashtunes and punjabis joined Sikh Armies to defend Punjab.

First Anglo-Sikh War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

History get a life man, u don't know anything or u are up to propaganda at its best.

What you have to say about these pictures about history??

You are deliberately playing divide and rule.

But no one can hide the truth and history.

 

[Justin Joseph]

Who have tortured and killed Sikh Gurus?????????

Sikh are the people with very big heart but can't forgive the killers of "Sikh Gurus"

 

[asq]

Hay JJ r u making these pics.

What i did was gave u a link from a reliable source and u come along put ur Nonsense.

Read again the facts on the link as I put up.

And I am talking about late 1800 dude.

very recent dude.

Just before the partition dude.

Self drawn pics no truth in it and not worthy of this forum.

 

[Iqbal_Brar]

and this is why i said earlier why do you guys comment on Sikhs when you know nothing??

justin joseph, yes those pics are true but at same time maybe u don't know but every story in those pictures has story related to good friendly muslims (read Sufi Muslims) who tried to save them.. people like Hazrat Mian Mir or the Sherwani Nawabs..

and second point, who are u to tell us who we can forgive and we can't?? we are not stupid we know what type of games you people try to play.. try to make sikhs fight one community with another..

asq, those pictures are true... not nonsense.. but at same time it is also true that there was muslim regiment in Sikh Khalsa army..

 

[Cheetah786]

how can sikhs be better than Indians when they themselves are Indians. Divide and rule policy is some thing which worked in last century. try something new.

Sikhs protest Toronto visit by Indian minister

An Indian minister’s visit and a private meeting with Premier Dalton McGuinty have unleashed a political maelstrom among Sikhs in the Toronto area, who say they will work to unseat the Liberals.

“Unless they make amends quickly, the Liberals will definitely lose this community’s votes,” said Harbans Jandali, president of Ontario Sikh and Gurdwara Council. “This is a sensitive issue for the Sikhs.”

Jandali, along with almost 500 other Sikh demonstrators, was outside the King Edward Hotel in downtown Toronto where Kamal Nath, minister of road transport and highways in India, addressed the Canada-India Business Council.

Nath is accused of helping organize deadly riots against Sikhs in November 1984 after the assassination of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi by her Sikh bodyguards in New Delhi. More than 3,000 Sikhs were killed in four days across India.

Demonstrators, occupying sidewalks in front of the hotel Tuesday, screamed: “Go back, Kamal Nath” and “Kamal Nath: Killer of Sikhs.”

The community began protesting Nath’s visit earlier in the week and Liberal MPPs for the Brampton area have been on the receiving end of many angry emails from Sikhs. But the opposition reached a frenzy after news broke of the Indian minister’s meeting with McGuinty.

“We had hoped that the government would listen to us and his visit would end,” said Lovleen Kaur, a York University student and one of organizers of the protest. “We didn’t want to do this,” she said pointing at the angry crowd.

But McGuinty defended the 30-minute tete-a-tete behind closed doors with Nath on Tuesday.

McGuinty, who said earlier this week he was unaware of the allegations against Nath despite two previous meetings with him on trade missions to India, told reporters that he prefers a policy of “open engagement” with foreign dignitaries to show how people of many ethnic backgrounds get along in the province.

As the controversy grew Tuesday, McGuinty’s office released a statement commenting on the deadly 1984 riots — the worst since India’s independence in 1947— saying, “I know many of our fellow Ontarians still feel the pain of these events very deeply, and I want to convey our sympathies.”

However, officials for McGuinty said human rights issues were not raised at the meeting with Nath, where trade was the main topic.

Given his large contingent of South Asian MPPs and having been to India twice, McGuinty should be more plugged in to the concerns surrounding people he’s meeting from that region, said NDP leader Andrea Horwath.

“I think it’s insensitive in the extreme that the premier would be entertaining Mr. Nath, a person who is obviously a very polarizing, very divisive figure,” she said.

Nath has refuted claims that he led any mob.

He told a commission in India in 2000 that he arrived at the scene of a riot in New Delhi after learning of escalating violence but he claims to have left when police arrived.

The commission indicted Nath but could not determine whether he was involved.

On Tuesday, he told the Star: “I have never been indicted by any commission of inquiry, nor have I been charged in a police station or before a court of law for any offence relating to violence against the members of the Sikh community.”

He said some years ago, “a complaint made by a person of dubious motivation was, nevertheless, examined by the Nanavati Commission, which found it baseless. The commission held that there was no evidence whatsoever that I had, in any manner, instigated any mob or was ever involved in any attack on any gurdwara.”

Nath said he has consistently condemned violence that erupted after Gandhi’s assassination.

“I am surprised and appalled by this protest because I have been coming here for 20 years and nobody ever complained,” said Nath.

Sikhs acknowledge that but say his visits have been deliberately kept under wraps because they rankle the community.

But a spokeswoman for McGuinty insisted government officials did not go out of their way to keep the meeting with Nath a secret

Meanwhile, a Sikh lawyer said Canada has violated constitutional law by allowing Nath entry into Canada even though he is accused of human rights violations.

“The constitution bars anyone involved in human-rights abuses, even if they have not been formally charged or convicted,” said Gurpatwant Pannu, a lawyer for Sikhs for Justice, an advocacy group.

He said he will challenge his admission in the federal court on Wednesday. “He (Nath) is here now but we want to make sure that he never comes to Canada again.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/784367--sikhs-protest-toronto-visit-by-indian-minister

 

[thebrownguy]

Sikhs protest Toronto visit by Indian minister

An Indian minister’s visit and a private meeting with Premier Dalton McGuinty have unleashed a political maelstrom among Sikhs in the Toronto area, who say they will work to unseat the Liberals.

“Unless they make amends quickly, the Liberals will definitely lose this community’s votes,” said Harbans Jandali, president of Ontario Sikh and Gurdwara Council. “This is a sensitive issue for the Sikhs.”

Jandali, along with almost 500 other Sikh demonstrators, was outside the King Edward Hotel in downtown Toronto where Kamal Nath, minister of road transport and highways in India, addressed the Canada-India Business Council.

Nath is accused of helping organize deadly riots against Sikhs in November 1984 after the assassination of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi by her Sikh bodyguards in New Delhi. More than 3,000 Sikhs were killed in four days across India.

Demonstrators, occupying sidewalks in front of the hotel Tuesday, screamed: “Go back, Kamal Nath” and “Kamal Nath: Killer of Sikhs.”

The community began protesting Nath’s visit earlier in the week and Liberal MPPs for the Brampton area have been on the receiving end of many angry emails from Sikhs. But the opposition reached a frenzy after news broke of the Indian minister’s meeting with McGuinty.

“We had hoped that the government would listen to us and his visit would end,” said Lovleen Kaur, a York University student and one of organizers of the protest. “We didn’t want to do this,” she said pointing at the angry crowd.

But McGuinty defended the 30-minute tete-a-tete behind closed doors with Nath on Tuesday.

McGuinty, who said earlier this week he was unaware of the allegations against Nath despite two previous meetings with him on trade missions to India, told reporters that he prefers a policy of “open engagement” with foreign dignitaries to show how people of many ethnic backgrounds get along in the province.

As the controversy grew Tuesday, McGuinty’s office released a statement commenting on the deadly 1984 riots — the worst since India’s independence in 1947— saying, “I know many of our fellow Ontarians still feel the pain of these events very deeply, and I want to convey our sympathies.”

However, officials for McGuinty said human rights issues were not raised at the meeting with Nath, where trade was the main topic.

Given his large contingent of South Asian MPPs and having been to India twice, McGuinty should be more plugged in to the concerns surrounding people he’s meeting from that region, said NDP leader Andrea Horwath.

“I think it’s insensitive in the extreme that the premier would be entertaining Mr. Nath, a person who is obviously a very polarizing, very divisive figure,” she said.

Nath has refuted claims that he led any mob.

He told a commission in India in 2000 that he arrived at the scene of a riot in New Delhi after learning of escalating violence but he claims to have left when police arrived.

The commission indicted Nath but could not determine whether he was involved.

On Tuesday, he told the Star: “I have never been indicted by any commission of inquiry, nor have I been charged in a police station or before a court of law for any offence relating to violence against the members of the Sikh community.”

He said some years ago, “a complaint made by a person of dubious motivation was, nevertheless, examined by the Nanavati Commission, which found it baseless. The commission held that there was no evidence whatsoever that I had, in any manner, instigated any mob or was ever involved in any attack on any gurdwara.”

Nath said he has consistently condemned violence that erupted after Gandhi’s assassination.

“I am surprised and appalled by this protest because I have been coming here for 20 years and nobody ever complained,” said Nath.

Sikhs acknowledge that but say his visits have been deliberately kept under wraps because they rankle the community.

But a spokeswoman for McGuinty insisted government officials did not go out of their way to keep the meeting with Nath a secret

Meanwhile, a Sikh lawyer said Canada has violated constitutional law by allowing Nath entry into Canada even though he is accused of human rights violations.

“The constitution bars anyone involved in human-rights abuses, even if they have not been formally charged or convicted,” said Gurpatwant Pannu, a lawyer for Sikhs for Justice, an advocacy group.

He said he will challenge his admission in the federal court on Wednesday. “He (Nath) is here now but we want to make sure that he never comes to Canada again.”

Sikhs protest Toronto visit by Indian minister - thestar.com

Arey yaar, these videshee sikhs, living mosty in Canada are the Khalistanis. Maybe they should try for Khalistan in Canada.

 

[Musalman]

Will Sikhs support and fight against India in case of all out war between India and Pakistan?

Of course not stupid !!! they are Indian

 

[asq]

Iqbal Brar Je.

If u tell me that those pics are true, than who did these pics and what is the connection to Muslims.

In my openion sikhism is closer to Islam, one example is that if u look at the Jalsa done by Guru Gobind singh jee choosing Panj Pyarey, he told those attending this meeting that, 'ALL INDIANS AR EQUAL AND NO ONE IS LOWER CLASS THAN OTHERS.'

THIS IN FACT IS WHAT ISLAM SAYS. all humans are equal and only those that are pious are better than thae who do Satanic things.

Now if Muslims had done what some claims about killing, had they done what is being claimed, all Indian would have been Muslims. today.

Let me give u parallal example. Europeans came to Americas only 250 years a go, and the locals here had their own culture and Religion, but they are are all christians living in reservations.

Muslims when lost power in India there were more HIndius in India, sikhs flourished inormously, and even Parsis, jains and all lived peacefully and in great numbers. not like Americas living in resevations and childern taken from parentas in schools run by christian missionaries.

In India any one who declared that they are kings or challanged the rulers, mughals fought them and that included Muslims as well.

In my openion making such pics is not the true representations of Muslim rule in Inda.

I know that there were some injutices done to all in India during Mughal rule,the opertive word is all. but than it was very few and far between. So Making such pics is not a true representatrion of Mughal rule.

Look at Kashmir today their has been killing of innocnets for 60 years, no one in pakistan makes such pics as these kind of pics will promote hatred in people and that is not right.

So finaly Muslims did join sikh forces fighting English, but HIndu on both occasions either attacked as Dogras did or Bengalis who joined English Armies and came all the way to fight Sikhs. Hindu never joined sikh Armies, they in my openion infiltrated Sikhs to mould their acts to suit their agendas. And Hindus continue the same policy till today.

May Allah, or Guru jee help us to see the truth and see the real opressors and the real truth seekers.

 

[asq]

Arey yaar, these videshee sikhs, living mosty in Canada are the Khalistanis. Maybe they should try for Khalistan in Canada.

So u tell me that Sikhs living in Canada are not true Sikhs and have no clue as to what goes on in this world.

A patronizing attitude. ( To treat in a condescending manners. )

 

[A.R.]

In my openion sikhism is closer to Islam....

and in my opinion sikhism is closer to hinduism.....
they celebrate all hindu festivals with same enthusiasm many of them are regular visitor of temples too... and same is the case with hindus in viceversa...