Who starts the Indo- Pak cross border firing first? The answer...

[Foggy_Bottom]

If you are going to quote this post, keep that in mind, whatever I have presented. You have refuted each and everything as conspiracy theory If not, then as per forum rules, Post of no value/troll post should be rated negative.

Running in circles with tail in b/w your legs in a debate is a sign of weakness.

You have not presented one single proof other than claims made by Pakistanis. We have international leaders on the other hand asking Pakistan to stop supporting terrorism. Nobody is making a similar claim on India, other than you and your pakistani sources.

 

[Neutron]

In the wake of reading the Indian Defence Minister's statements being translated into a completely insane meaning by the media i.e. Lost in translation. Because the term 'You remove a thorn with a thorn' is not saying you take out a terrorist with a terrorist. Rather in the same vein as saying 'You don't bring a knife to a gun battle.' - It loosely means that you deal with equal tenacity and force.

I thought to add some bits from a conversation I had among some colleagues I've known in the intelligence community.

On India using separatist groups against Pakistan
India has only this year and for the first time made the decision to support balochistan separatist, and soon Gilgit. You may notice after almost every major attack in Kashmir from Pakistan funded terrorists. They will be a major retribution attack from Balochistan against the military. Things are about to be taken to the next level in the next 12- 16 months against those terror groups leaders that Pakistan supports.

On cross border firings
When I enquired about these border firings, they said " It is really simple to figure out who starts firing first. The first of cross border firings is near always started by Pakistan.".

I asked, "How do we know that?"

1. In 99% of cases India FIRST complains of a cross border firing took place, and in most all cases shows supporting evidence on their T.V (interviews, bullets holes, mortar rounds in local villages). Pakistan almost never is first to claim that India fired over the border. One would think if India was first to do so, Pakistan would love to have the international community know of this when it took place immediately.However, once India retaliates, then pakistan claims India started it.
2. Look at the " locations" that these cross border firings take place. It is almost always in those sectors where infiltration takes place. With one exception, the " international border". In those cases it's simply a harassment technique used by pakistan military forces.
3. Don't forget the often ambush on indian patrols, killing and beheading of their soldiers. One never hears of any done on Pakistan patrols as first action.

Freedom movement of Kashmir is recognised by UN and it is right of the people of Kashmir. Can you elaborate why you considered Balochistan terrorist as freedom fighters???

IF this is your criteria than allow us to consider Afghan Taliban as mujahideen and let all muslim of the world to fight with US, NATO and indians in Afghanistan.

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

I merely posed a question and I refer you to my post and I see no evidence of any emotional outburst. However, I do see from your rantings on other posts that you're somewhat an emotional entity.

Kashmiris have the right under the UN to fight occupation! If taking up arms against occupiers is terrorism then it would be better to look at the terrorist groups US supported accrording to Robert.D. Gates, 'From the Shadows'; Sandinista ''rebels'' , Angola, Cuba, Afghnistan, subversion in Iran, etc.

What right under what UN resolution. Please direct me to the UN resolution that says they have the right to:
1. To take up arms
2. Any resolution is existing and is a live resolution today

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

An expected response when cornered. I'm sure I will read many such well thought responses in this thread. I have confirmed to my best of knowledge that India is now supporting the Baluchistan freedom movement, why would an "Indian" ever do that? But since most you guys here have the attention span of a gnat. You only homed in on other parts.

Please get your head outta your arse!

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

Freedom movement of Kashmir is recognised by UN and it is right of the people of Kashmir. Can you elaborate why you considered Balochistan terrorist as freedom fighters???

IF this is your criteria than allow us to consider Afghan Taliban as mujahideen and let all muslim of the world to fight with US, NATO and indians in Afghanistan.

Freedom movement of Kashmir is not a terror group. I spoke of terror groups, recognized either by the U.S, EU and or U.N. Regarding Baluchistan, I called them a separatist group, all separatist groups are terrorist groups if they take up any form of violent acts. I also think Balochistan freedom call is as legit as your Kashmir freedom call. Legit, as in the right to ask for it. But these just my personal opinions. I'm not going to get into the Kashmir conversation here anymore, and sidetrack the topic.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Logic meets anger.

logic is elections or public anger on something Pakistan is a ready made enemy and story sells like hot cakes no one comes to check who fired first. happens on Bangladeshi side as well but the shooting is one sided and Bangladeshis are the receipients. on western border its a tit for tat
since I have lived through the experience so I can tell that we knew the border will become hot on elections or a cyclical statements Indian defence or interior minister will pull off suddenly.
place Bhimber sector along the LoC 1994-1996
Baloch regiment deployed on one side and across river Tavi 4 Rajpoot.
the sector was quiet for a long time and we even held a usual flag staff meeting but come evening the Indians started machine gun fire . it was summer time full moon . the area is not known for infiltration blame gaming either. some other sectors saw more intense cross firing and we fired back at the known positions and that was that.

I sometimes wish that people who pull off the infiltration excuse at least consult with some Indian soldiers who have served along the LoC. you guys are fed garbage by these bollywoodised writers who pull these stories from private parts of their bodies.
infiltration to be successful wont happen under the nose of an Indian military deployment
but if the unthinkable does happen and the infiltrators want to risk it then they will do it quietly and will expect their Pakistani collaborators to stay quiet and NOT sart shooting at Indians WAKING them up and giving them an idea something is happening. but then again if our Agents are dumb enough to make and receive phone calls on fixed lines to be intercepted and recorded, carry Paksitani ID cards and other memorabilia then no wonder they might do everything as per Indian script.

 

[MastanKhan]

In the wake of reading the Indian Defence Minister's statements being translated into a completely insane meaning by the media i.e. Lost in translation. Because the term 'You remove a thorn with a thorn' is not saying you take out a terrorist with a terrorist. Rather in the same vein as saying 'You don't bring a knife to a gun battle.' - It loosely means that you deal with equal tenacity and force.

I thought to add some bits from a conversation I had among some colleagues I've known in the intelligence community.

On India using separatist groups against Pakistan
India has only this year and for the first time made the decision to support balochistan separatist, and soon Gilgit. You may notice after almost every major attack in Kashmir from Pakistan funded terrorists. They will be a major retribution attack from Balochistan against the military. Things are about to be taken to the next level in the next 12- 16 months against those terror groups leaders that Pakistan supports.

On cross border firings
When I enquired about these border firings, they said " It is really simple to figure out who starts firing first. The first of cross border firings is near always started by Pakistan.".

I asked, "How do we know that?"

1. In 99% of cases India FIRST complains of a cross border firing took place, and in most all cases shows supporting evidence on their T.V (interviews, bullets holes, mortar rounds in local villages). Pakistan almost never is first to claim that India fired over the border. One would think if India was first to do so, Pakistan would love to have the international community know of this when it took place immediately.However, once India retaliates, then pakistan claims India started it.
2. Look at the " locations" that these cross border firings take place. It is almost always in those sectors where infiltration takes place. With one exception, the " international border". In those cases it's simply a harassment technique used by pakistan military forces.
3. Don't forget the often ambush on indian patrols, killing and beheading of their soldiers. One never hears of any done on Pakistan patrols as first action.

Hi,

To my Pakistani colleagues---don't take this man lightly----. He is not on crack---India started helping the baluch insurgency a longtime ago--- it was thru the blessing of the U S military in Afghanistan----being guided by those 17 consulates in afg.

Now as the ISIS has shoved a fist up the U S interests---and u s military and foreign affairs being thrashed all over middle east----Europe in the first phase of a very very minor chaos----U S beginning to show concern----the U S decided to wipe its hands off assisting in Baluch insurgency----because it desperately needed Pakistan's help in stabilizing afghanistan.

I mean to say----in the last 6 months---the U S has literally been begging Pakistan for help and offering weapons.

You Pakistanis---instead of getting angry and upset---needs to see the partial face of the state department---this is it---. Old Fags like him create more animosity towards the u s by splurging garbage out of their mouths---this moron got nothing better to do than bash Pakistan---.

You old hag----didn't they tell you at the state dept that time for Pakistan bashing is momentarily been suspended and it s time for the state dept to kow tow. As you are going against the policies of your office----be careful that they might not withhold your retirement pension---.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

You old hag----didn't they tell you at the state dept that time for Pakistan bashing is momentarily been suspended and it s time for the state dept to kow tow. As you are going against the policies of your office----be careful that they might not withhold your retirement pension---.

ROFL

quote of the week. No wonder that Haqani network in USA (yes the real Haqqani network aka Hussain Hqanni) realised that when his anti Pakistan article about stopping cobra sale to Pakistan didnt gain much attention.

 

[kadamba-warrior]

@US_statedept_retired

Now the question is that yr own Asia Pivot Strategy is in direct danger if we decide to do that because by this their economy can easily be doomed and even if we go rightly we CAN easily balkanize them. Because India unlike Pakistan is basically a Union of states/nations rather then a singular Nation, thats how their constitution defines them.

@US_statedept_retired
Now if u really want to save yr asian pivot strategy then u must work accordingly if not then prepare to say goodbye to that strategy, consider that our warning!

I find it extra-ordinary that you say IF Pakistan decided, it CAN balkanize India. Because Pakistan fought 4 major wars with India and indulged countless terror attacks and supported several secessionist movements in Kashmir, Punjab and elsewhere against India.

Are you saying that despite all those actions, Pakistan never intended to balkanize India? Is it out of goodwill of Pakistan that India is still standing as one entity and performing somewhat semi-good when it comes to economic development?

 

[vinay]

Hi,

To my Pakistani colleagues---don't take this man lightly----. He is not on crack---India started helping the baluch insurgency a longtime ago--- it was thru the blessing of the U S military in Afghanistan----being guided by those 17 consulates in afg.

Now as the ISIS has shoved a fist up the U S interests---and u s military and foreign affairs being thrashed all over middle east----Europe in the first phase of a very very minor chaos----U S beginning to show concern----the U S decided to wipe its hands off assisting in Baluch insurgency----because it desperately needed Pakistan's help in stabilizing afghanistan.

I mean to say----in the last 6 months---the U S has literally been begging Pakistan for help and offering weapons.

You Pakistanis---instead of getting angry and upset---needs to see the partial face of the state department---this is it---. Old Fags like him create more animosity towards the u s by splurging garbage out of their mouths---this moron got nothing better to do than bash Pakistan---.

You old hag----didn't they tell you at the state dept that time for Pakistan bashing is momentarily been suspended and it s time for the state dept to kow tow. As you are going against the policies of your office----be careful that they might not withhold your retirement pension---.

When u talk about consulates , i guess u are talking about indian consulates in afg. can u name some of them? maybe 10 atleast because i checked and i got to know of only 4 consultes in afg

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

Hi,

To my Pakistani colleagues---don't take this man lightly----. He is not on crack---India started helping the baluch insurgency a longtime ago--- it was thru the blessing of the U S military in Afghanistan----being guided by those 17 consulates in afg.

Now as the ISIS has shoved a fist up the U S interests---and u s military and foreign affairs being thrashed all over middle east----Europe in the first phase of a very very minor chaos----U S beginning to show concern----the U S decided to wipe its hands off assisting in Baluch insurgency----because it desperately needed Pakistan's help in stabilizing afghanistan.

I mean to say----in the last 6 months---the U S has literally been begging Pakistan for help and offering weapons.

You Pakistanis---instead of getting angry and upset---needs to see the partial face of the state department---this is it---. Old Fags like him create more animosity towards the u s by splurging garbage out of their mouths---this moron got nothing better to do than bash Pakistan---.

You old hag----didn't they tell you at the state dept that time for Pakistan bashing is momentarily been suspended and it s time for the state dept to kow tow. As you are going against the policies of your office----be careful that they might not withhold your retirement pension---.

Why get so upset, our state department has told Pakistan that it needs to stop breeding snakes in its backyard. This is not new found knowledge that you've been recognized in some form as a state sponsoring terror groups. I use the word "state" loosely, instead of ISI. That is because most countries have a military, whereas in Pakistan the military has a country.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

I find it extra-ordinary that you say IF Pakistan decided, it CAN balkanize India. Because Pakistan fought 4 major wars with India and indulged countless terror attacks and supported several secessionist movements in Kashmir, Punjab and elsewhere against India.

Are you saying that despite all those actions, Pakistan never intended to balkanize India? Is it out of goodwill of Pakistan that India is still standing as one entity and performing somewhat semi-good when it comes to economic development?

Look all i can say is that u need a lot bigger brain and IQ to understand my posts.
Plus stop that state propaganda of yrs we have won 2 out of 3 wars that we have fought, 2 conflicts are also fought in which one was won by us and other by u.

 

[waz]

The thread has been closed until we clear some things up.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

He brought it down your level, OS I'm sure you liked it. In our country an article written is not going to stop the sale. What you don't know is the humiliating terms and conditions we gave you. Including on the F16's sold. Pakistan is a temporary redhead step child we need cajole, please don't assume you are a respected partner and hence you were sold the equipment.

naa not good enough
as for the "level" your "interest" tells me your origins being my shy neighbour from the east.
don't be ashamed about it.

Mastan's comment still wins over your by miles.

as for the respect part
if this is how America Doesnt Respect Us then I have no complaints.

Army chief conferred US Legion of Merit medal - Pakistan - DAWN.COM