Who starts the Indo- Pak cross border firing first? The answer...

[Bratva]

In the wake of reading the Indian Defence Minister's statements being translated into a completely insane meaning by the media i.e. Lost in translation. Because the term 'You remove a thorn with a thorn' is not saying you take out a terrorist with a terrorist. Rather in the same vein as saying 'You don't bring a knife to a gun battle.' - It loosely means that you deal with equal tenacity and force.

I thought to add some bits from a conversation I had among some colleagues I've known in the intelligence community.

On India using separatist groups against Pakistan
India has only this year and for the first time made the decision to support balochistan separatist, and soon Gilgit. You may notice after almost every major attack in Kashmir from Pakistan funded terrorists. They will be a major retribution attack from Balochistan against the military. Things are about to be taken to the next level in the next 12- 16 months against those terror groups leaders that Pakistan supports.

On cross border firings
When I enquired about these border firings, they said " It is really simple to figure out who starts firing first. The first of cross border firings is near always started by Pakistan.".

I asked, "How do we know that?"

1. In 99% of cases India FIRST complains of a cross border firing took place, and in most all cases shows supporting evidence on their T.V (interviews, bullets holes, mortar rounds in local villages). Pakistan almost never is first to claim that India fired over the border. One would think if India was first to do so, Pakistan would love to have the international community know of this when it took place immediately.However, once India retaliates, then pakistan claims India started it.
2. Look at the " locations" that these cross border firings take place. It is almost always in those sectors where infiltration takes place. With one exception, the " international border". In those cases it's simply a harassment technique used by pakistan military forces.
3. Don't forget the often ambush on indian patrols, killing and beheading of their soldiers. One never hears of any done on Pakistan patrols as first action.

A classic case of shooting your mouth before doing some actual research. Seriously How many times you are going to embarrass yourself by parroting Indian propaganda ?

US exit: India steps up Afghan army training

The training includes counter-terrorism operations, military field-craft, signals, intelligence, counter-IED, information technology

US exit: India steps up Afghan army training - The Times of India\

Secret military intelligence unit ran 8 covert operations abroad?

Technical Support Division (TSD), the secretive military intelligence unit set up by former Army chief General V K Singh which is accused of trying to overthrow the Omar Abdullahgovernment, has claimed to have carried out at least eight successful covert operations in a foreign country.

But the claims are so sensitive and sensational that it would be a key reason why the government will not hand over the inquiry report into the functioning of TSD to an external investigation agency.

According to sources, among the most sensational claims in the report is that the TSD carried out eight specific covert operations in a foreign country. It has claimed to have spent a few crores on those operations

Secret military intelligence unit ran 8 covert operations abroad? - The Times of India

MI operatives moved into Tajikistan and later Afghanistan in support of the Ahmad Shah Massoud-led Northern Alliance that overthrew the Taliban in 2001.Besides furthering national strategic goals, MI officials say these 'third country operations' allowed the agency to peep into countries of their immediate interest.

How Indian Army's Military Intelligence Directorate works : Special Report - India Today

Ravi Datt Mehta (1955 – 7 July 2008) was a brigadier in the Indian army. He died in the suicide bombingof the Indian Embassy in Kabul while serving as India's Defence Attaché to Afghanistanon 7 July 2008. Brig. Mehta had earlier also served as the head of the Indian Army's Intelligence Corps in the state of Jammu and Kashmir


US grabs Pakistani Taliban commander (NO.2 of TTP ) from Afghan intel
By BILL ROGGIO October 11, 2013

US grabs Pakistani Taliban commander from Afghan intel | The Long War Journal


Monday, January 09, 2006

New Delhi fuelling Balochistan violence, says Musharraf

* President ‘annoyed’ and ‘disappointed’ by Indian involvement

NEW DELHI: President Pervez Musharraf accused India on Sunday of arming and financing militants in Balochistan, charges that could push back a peace process between the two countries.

When asked whether India was backing armed Baloch militants, Musharraf told the CNN-IBNchannel in an interview aired on Sunday: “There are lot of indications, yes indeed.” There is a “lot of financial support, support in kind being given to those who are anti-government, anti-me and to those feudal people who are anti-national”, the president said.

The Pakistan Army launched a crackdown against militants in Balochistan after a December 14 rocket attack while Musharraf was visiting the region. Baloch nationalists say that 200 people have since been killed, but the government has not commented on casualties.

Musharraf said that he was “annoyed” and “disappointed” by Indian government statements and alleged actions in Balochistan. “It’s a direct interference in our internal affairs,” he told CNN-IBN.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\01\09\story_9-1-2006_pg1_1

Musharraf expressed hope that the exchange over Balochistan would not hurt the peace process between Pakistan and India. “It should not be a setback to the process of dialogue of resolution (of disputes),” he said.

A spat erupted this month after India expressed concerns about the situation in Balochistan. New Delhi had said last month that it noted with “concern” reports of the use of gunships and jet fighters in Balochistan, and hoped that Islamabad would show “restraint” in the matter.

Pakistan had responded by accusing India of “an unacceptable proclivity to interfere in the internal affairs of its neighbours”. “Such tendency is contrary to efforts aimed at building an environment of trust, peace and stability in South Asia,” Foreign Office spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam had said.

Musharraf had termed India’s comments “intriguing”, adding: “We know who is financing and supplying weapons.”

India on Saturday rejected earlier Pakistani charges of involvement in Balochistan. “As far as any allegations about India’s interference in Balochistan are concerned, I would like to categorically reject these allegations as utterly baseless and false,” Indian Foreign Ministry spokesman Navtej Sarna said.

Opposition parties in Balochistan have accused the government of using helicopter gunships and warplanes to rocket and bomb civilians in Kohlu and Dera Bugti.

On Friday, Federal Information Minister and the president’s chief spokesman Sheikh Rashid had said that good relations with neighbours have kept Pakistan from making public evidence of the involvement of foreign countries in the Balochistan insurgency.

“We have evidence that foreign countries are involved,” he told a news conference in Peshawar. “But we don’t want to spoil the good relations we have with our neighbours.” reuters

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

Hi,
The first sign of a person losing an argument is jumping to irrelevant topics.

I never said or claimed anything otherwise, what ever you mentioned in above post no matter how irrelevant it is to the authenticity of your post, I will say they were the more of a reactionary policies of US

And please quite embarrassing yourself as American when youre clearly not.

yes, as far as the post is limted to 26/11 and KArgil this is something that will be answered to An INDIAN, not to some Indian who feels ashamed of Indian culture

I see you getting perturbed.

How is proving your initial reaction as always saying "it is tabloid news" aka a lie- not relevant?
Why Is Kargil and 26/11 for Indians only when it was an international act of terror in one case, and war in another? According to your logic, you will never be able to cite 9/11 anytime because it happened on American soil

 

[Bratva]

In the wake of reading the Indian Defence Minister's statements being translated into a completely insane meaning by the media i.e. Lost in translation. Because the term 'You remove a thorn with a thorn' is not saying you take out a terrorist with a terrorist. Rather in the same vein as saying 'You don't bring a knife to a gun battle.' - It loosely means that you deal with equal tenacity and force.

I thought to add some bits from a conversation I had among some colleagues I've known in the intelligence community.

On India using separatist groups against Pakistan
India has only this year and for the first time made the decision to support balochistan separatist, and soon Gilgit. You may notice after almost every major attack in Kashmir from Pakistan funded terrorists. They will be a major retribution attack from Balochistan against the military. Things are about to be taken to the next level in the next 12- 16 months against those terror groups leaders that Pakistan supports.

On cross border firings
When I enquired about these border firings, they said " It is really simple to figure out who starts firing first. The first of cross border firings is near always started by Pakistan.".

I asked, "How do we know that?"

1. In 99% of cases India FIRST complains of a cross border firing took place, and in most all cases shows supporting evidence on their T.V (interviews, bullets holes, mortar rounds in local villages). Pakistan almost never is first to claim that India fired over the border. One would think if India was first to do so, Pakistan would love to have the international community know of this when it took place immediately.However, once India retaliates, then pakistan claims India started it.
2. Look at the " locations" that these cross border firings take place. It is almost always in those sectors where infiltration takes place. With one exception, the " international border". In those cases it's simply a harassment technique used by pakistan military forces.
3. Don't forget the often ambush on indian patrols, killing and beheading of their soldiers. One never hears of any done on Pakistan patrols as first action.

Indian forces has no proof of infiltrators crossing the border

Indian forces has no proof of infiltrators crossing the border

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

A classic case of shooting your mouth before doing some actual research. Seriously How many times you are going to embarrass yourself by parroting Indian propaganda ?

US exit: India steps up Afghan army training

The training includes counter-terrorism operations, military field-craft, signals, intelligence, counter-IED, information technology

US exit: India steps up Afghan army training - The Times of India\

Secret military intelligence unit ran 8 covert operations abroad?

Technical Support Division (TSD), the secretive military intelligence unit set up by former Army chief General V K Singh which is accused of trying to overthrow the Omar Abdullahgovernment, has claimed to have carried out at least eight successful covert operations in a foreign country.

But the claims are so sensitive and sensational that it would be a key reason why the government will not hand over the inquiry report into the functioning of TSD to an external investigation agency.

According to sources, among the most sensational claims in the report is that the TSD carried out eight specific covert operations in a foreign country. It has claimed to have spent a few crores on those operations

Secret military intelligence unit ran 8 covert operations abroad? - The Times of India

MI operatives moved into Tajikistan and later Afghanistan in support of the Ahmad Shah Massoud-led Northern Alliance that overthrew the Taliban in 2001.Besides furthering national strategic goals, MI officials say these 'third country operations' allowed the agency to peep into countries of their immediate interest.

How Indian Army's Military Intelligence Directorate works : Special Report - India Today

Ravi Datt Mehta (1955 – 7 July 2008) was a brigadier in the Indian army. He died in the suicide bombingof the Indian Embassy in Kabul while serving as India's Defence Attaché to Afghanistanon 7 July 2008. Brig. Mehta had earlier also served as the head of the Indian Army's Intelligence Corps in the state of Jammu and Kashmir


US grabs Pakistani Taliban commander (NO.2 of TTP ) from Afghan intel
By BILL ROGGIO October 11, 2013

US grabs Pakistani Taliban commander from Afghan intel | The Long War Journal


Monday, January 09, 2006

New Delhi fuelling Balochistan violence, says Musharraf

* President ‘annoyed’ and ‘disappointed’ by Indian involvement

NEW DELHI: President Pervez Musharraf accused India on Sunday of arming and financing militants in Balochistan, charges that could push back a peace process between the two countries.

When asked whether India was backing armed Baloch militants, Musharraf told the CNN-IBNchannel in an interview aired on Sunday: “There are lot of indications, yes indeed.” There is a “lot of financial support, support in kind being given to those who are anti-government, anti-me and to those feudal people who are anti-national”, the president said.

The Pakistan Army launched a crackdown against militants in Balochistan after a December 14 rocket attack while Musharraf was visiting the region. Baloch nationalists say that 200 people have since been killed, but the government has not commented on casualties.

Musharraf said that he was “annoyed” and “disappointed” by Indian government statements and alleged actions in Balochistan. “It’s a direct interference in our internal affairs,” he told CNN-IBN.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\01\09\story_9-1-2006_pg1_1

Musharraf expressed hope that the exchange over Balochistan would not hurt the peace process between Pakistan and India. “It should not be a setback to the process of dialogue of resolution (of disputes),” he said.

A spat erupted this month after India expressed concerns about the situation in Balochistan. New Delhi had said last month that it noted with “concern” reports of the use of gunships and jet fighters in Balochistan, and hoped that Islamabad would show “restraint” in the matter.

Pakistan had responded by accusing India of “an unacceptable proclivity to interfere in the internal affairs of its neighbours”. “Such tendency is contrary to efforts aimed at building an environment of trust, peace and stability in South Asia,” Foreign Office spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam had said.

Musharraf had termed India’s comments “intriguing”, adding: “We know who is financing and supplying weapons.”

India on Saturday rejected earlier Pakistani charges of involvement in Balochistan. “As far as any allegations about India’s interference in Balochistan are concerned, I would like to categorically reject these allegations as utterly baseless and false,” Indian Foreign Ministry spokesman Navtej Sarna said.

Opposition parties in Balochistan have accused the government of using helicopter gunships and warplanes to rocket and bomb civilians in Kohlu and Dera Bugti.

On Friday, Federal Information Minister and the president’s chief spokesman Sheikh Rashid had said that good relations with neighbours have kept Pakistan from making public evidence of the involvement of foreign countries in the Balochistan insurgency.

“We have evidence that foreign countries are involved,” he told a news conference in Peshawar. “But we don’t want to spoil the good relations we have with our neighbours.” reuters

And your point being? other than a remarkable talent of copy pasting some credible articles among mostly conspiratorial ones?

As an claimed analyst here- why don't you learn to give us your analysis

 

[salarsikander]

I see you getting perturbed.

How is proving your initial reaction as always saying "it is tabloid news" aka a lie- not relevant?
Why Is Kargil and 26/11 for Indians only when it was an international act of terror in one case, and war in another? According to your logic, you will never be able to cite 9/11 anytime because it happened on American soil

Hi,

My only objection was the fact that You being as Indian using American flag is just an embarrassment.

I would have agreed or disagreed to your post, if you had the guts to display your country of origin flags, since your hell bent on making an embarrassment to yourself what else can i say.

I have more respects for Indians who are proud of their culture and they defend it openly, unlike some old wannabe.

so you agree youre an Indian ? who is ashamed of his Indian origins ?

 

[Bratva]

And your point being? other than a remarkable talent of copy pasting some credible articles among mostly conspiratorial ones?

As an claimed analyst here- why don't you learn to give us your analysis

And ladies and gentleman, we have come to a point, where a supposed impersonator, who was engaging in verbal diarrhea from the beginning of his thread, when presented with proofs from Indian sources that India is spreading terror in pakistan for last 9-10 years. He began to act as blind and ignorant.

Let's this be a fair warning. Instead of engaging in circular or shifting argument with me. Remain to the point. I don't have patience to debate with demagogues.

I read that in Lt.Sambal's diary (8 northern light infantry regiment, kargil war). He had written that they tested their new guns by firing at their enemies (India).
And I agree to your point that neither Pakistan nor India is angelic. But its true that majority of the skirmishes were started by Pakistan, some say such firings facilitate the terrorists in crossing the border.

Who encroached on the Pakistani land of Siachen first ? Bengaalis ? This is what sparked Kargil conflict

For ur information the word reputation also existes outside borders of Pakistan. Pakistan is zero entity in international space.

And you perfectly proved why you belong to 90 percent group of idiots that exist in India

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

Hi,

My only objection was the fact that You being as Indian using American flag is just an embarrassment.

I would have agreed or disagreed to your post, if you had the guts to display your country of origin flags, since your hell bent on making an embarrassment to yourself what else can i say.

I have more respects for Indians who are proud of their culture and they defend it openly, unlike some old wannabe.

so you agree youre an Indian ? who is ashamed of his Indian origins ?

So we are back to not answering to the content, but rather obsessing with the need, for me, to be an Indian?
How many times have I said now, if it is therapeutic for you, then believe it all the way. I leave you to rock back and forth chanting away " He is an Indian, all will be good".

 

[salarsikander]

So we are back to not answering to the content, but rather obsessing with the need, for me, to be an Indian?
How many times have I said now, if it is therapeutic for you, then believe it all the way. I leave you to rock back and forth chanting away " He is an Indian, all will be good".

Hi,
i see you have developed quite a skills in dodging the real question.

Perhaps Modi was right. Indians were ashamed of being born in India, right?
Just like you're apparently

 

[Bratva]

The bold part is not true, India has been handling the terror coming from Pakistan for decades and we have been successful in that, failed in some occasions. India has no plans to do terrorism in Pakistan.

India has been responding by by other means like diplomacy, economy, sports etc..etc.

Srinivas, Be truthful for once. You sponsored terrorism in Pakistan and broke it. What if same exact thing were done with India? Would India remained peaceful with such country ? You rolled the ball in 71, we followed in your footsteps.

And Why TSD ran 8 deep covert Ops in Pakistan if it has no plans to do terrorism in Pakistan ?

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

And ladies and gentleman, we have come to a point, where a supposed impersonator, who was engaging in verbal diarrhea from the beginning of his thread, when presented with proofs from Indian sources that India is spreading terror in pakistan for last 9-10 years. He began to act as blind and ignorant.

Let's this be a fair warning. Instead of engaging in circular or shifting argument with me. Remain to the point. I don't have patience to debate with demagogues.



Who encroached on the Pakistani land of Siachen first ? Bengaalis ? This is what sparked Kargil conflict



And you perfectly proved why you belong to 90 percent group of idiots that exist in India

LOL analyst , my foot. More like some juvenile shriller. What proof have you shown to your claims? There is no proof, furthermore apart from it being same old pakistani delusional and conspiratorial claims. Nobody outside your circles believes in any of it. Not a single country outside you guys proscribe to any of your claims. What we have here is the same old wishful thinking from a pakistani. Do you get that? To have some credibility to your claims, you must surely have other countries, U.N someone who says " Hey India is supporting terrorism". You not got nothing , zip, zilch - nada, bro.

We train Afghans too, does that mean we are supporting terrorism in Pakistan?

Siachen was a free for all, no man's land. It was Pakistan that was buying up military equipment for that altitude that tipped off India. You got caught trying to take it first and outsmarted by the Indians.

 

[Imran Khan]

question - Who starts the Indo- Pak cross border firing first?
ANSWER - MEDIA

 

[Bratva]

I thought I would gather up all the angry and personal attacks said about me in one thread, and say I understand why you would be upset. Each and everyone of you had the same reaction of" these are are lies!", when Pakistan was then accused of housing Osama, helping Haqqanis against american soldiers, housing the Taliban, Kargil, 26/11, evidence of supporting terror groups against various countries etc. So I get this initial and similar reaction.

If Pakistan was accused of so and so things, Why america havent took Pakistan to ICJ then ? Your post holds merit if american accusations about Pakistan are proven in court of law. Until and unless it occurs, stop using the work proven. It makes you look imbecile who likes to repeat a lie hundred times until it becomes a truth.

And while you are at it. Do read history of Kargil, how it was a Pakistani land once and how india encroached it in 80's.

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

ROFL BRATVA now abusing his power and handing out negative ratings. @Horus

 

[Bratva]

LOL analyst , my foot. More like some juvenile shriller. What proof have you shown to your claims? There is no proof, furthermore apart from it being same old pakistani delusional and conspiratorial claims. Nobody outside your circles believes in any of it. Not a single country outside you guys proscribe to any of your claims. What we have here is the same old wishful thinking from a pakistani. Do you get that? To have some credibility to your claims, you must surely have other countries, U.N someone who says " Hey India is supporting terrorism". You not nothing , zip, zilch - nada.

We train Afghans too, does that mean we are supporting terrorism in Pakistan?

Siachen was a free for all, no man's land. It was Pakistan that was buying up military equipment for that altitude that tipped off India. You got caught in trying to take it first and outsmarted by the Indians.

Read my post again which says how Indian Military intelligence units are spreading terror in pakistan .

Unless you are going to debate rationally and factually, any nonsense that is going to comeout of your mouth would be rated negative

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

Whats really need of this?