Who lost the 1965 war - India or Pakistan?

[AsimJavaid]

Asslam o Alaikum All,

we grew up hearing stories about bravery and courage of pakisatn army in 65 war .. and how we defeated india and captured many sq.km of there land. but as i came to know from Wikipedia and other sources that we actually lost the war .... is it true? what are facts about 65 war?

this topic may be discussed earlier here so point me to that direction or answer me in this thread. i am really confused about it, i have red all "Annaytullah" books about 65 and i believe we won the war, or at least were on equal terms with india when war was over ... were we really defeated or is it propaganda.

i would really appreciate you help here.

Asim Javaid
Islamabad

 

[Patriot]

We neither won nor lost--- pretty much a stalemate.The reason being that both Pakistanis and Indians had pretty much the same capability.Neither side had enough weapons to conquer each other.

 

[MUHARIB]

This thread is gonna be fun!!

 

[untitled]

 

[Imran Khan]

first of all there is huge threads abut 65 here were debate go till end .regarding WIKI you can edit it as you like and indian users daily edit it as they like .


http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/26861-1965-indo-pak-war.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/321-memories-1965-indo-pak-war.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/65721-myth-1965-victory-indian-view.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/33273-1965-pak-indo-war-detailss.html


if you read all of them it will be enough for you dear .

please close the thread as troll war is expected here.

 

[IndianArmy]

Soviet Union would be abetter answer... Those who know the truth can very well inculcate...

 

[Imran Khan]

This thread is gonna be fun!!

i hope its closed before fun start lolz

 

[Nav]

Pakistan neither lost nor win, pakistan just push back huge indian armour and infantry.
I suggest u go through the thread Imran bhai listed above. U will knw every thing.

 

[REHAN NIAZI FALCON]

what is by gone is by gone............ all informations are biased

 

[aakash_2410]

We neither won nor lost--- pretty much a stalemate.The reason being that both Pakistanis and Indians had pretty much the same capability.Neither side had enough weapons to conquer each other.

'India's chief of army staff urged negotiations on the ground that they were running out ammunition and their number of tanks had become seriously depleted. In fact, the army had used less than 15% of its ammunition compared to Pakistan, which had consumed closer to 80 percent and India had double the number of serviceable tanks.'

According to - David Van

'India won the war. It gained 1,840 square kilometers of Pakistani territory: 640 square kilometers in Azad Kashmir, Pakistan's portion of the state; 460 square kilometers of the Sailkot sector; 380 square kilometers far to the south of Sindh; and most critical, 360 square kilometers on the Lahore front. Pakistan took 540 square kilometers of Indian territory: 490 square kilometers in the Chhamb sector and 50 square kilometers around Khem Karan.'

According to - Library of Congress [USA]

'The war was militarily inconclusive; each side held prisoners and some territory belonging to the other. Losses were relatively heavy—on the Pakistani side, twenty aircraft, 200 tanks, and 3,800 troops. Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but a continuation of the fighting would only have led to further losses and ultimate defeat for Pakistan. Most Pakistanis, schooled in the belief of their own martial prowess, refused to accept the possibility of their country's military defeat by "Hindu India" and were, instead, quick to blame their failure to attain their military aims on what they considered to be the ineptitude of Ayub Khan and his government.'

Accodring to - Devin Hagerty

'The invading Indian forces outfought their Pakistani counterparts and halted their attack on the outskirts of Lahore, Pakistan's second-largest city. By the time United Nations intervened on September 22, Pakistan had suffered a clear defeat.'

According to - Gertjan Djikin

'The superior Indian forces, however, won a decisive victory and the army could have even marched on into Pakistani territory had external pressure not forced both combatants to cease their war efforts.'



Hope that helped.

 

[yousaf goebbels]

we destroyed all the indian tanks in Chawinda...largest tank battle after ww2.....Indian Chief of militia wanted to have dinner in Lahore Gymkhana(his inferiority complex and slave mentality cause he wasnt offered good food in indian clubs) but couldnt cause we killed all those who came to border to enter Pakistan.
they attaked at night but defenders of Pakistan were awake.

 

[Mo12]

Most Pakistanis taught in Pakistan will obviously say Pakistan won every single war to be honest.

Truth of the matter is most neutral sources I read, is it was a stalemate with Pakistan backing off.

 

[Last Hope]

NO!

We didn't lose 1965!! But that's nothing to be proud of! We didn't win it either!! If there is something to be proud of in 1965, its MM Alam and other fellow PAF personnel's miraculous work!! Only air wars were in our favor!!

 

[Patriot]

'India's chief of army staff urged negotiations on the ground that they were running out ammunition and their number of tanks had become seriously depleted. In fact, the army had used less than 15% of its ammunition compared to Pakistan, which had consumed closer to 80 percent and India had double the number of serviceable tanks.'

According to - David Van

'India won the war. It gained 1,840 square kilometers of Pakistani territory: 640 square kilometers in Azad Kashmir, Pakistan's portion of the state; 460 square kilometers of the Sailkot sector; 380 square kilometers far to the south of Sindh; and most critical, 360 square kilometers on the Lahore front. Pakistan took 540 square kilometers of Indian territory: 490 square kilometers in the Chhamb sector and 50 square kilometers around Khem Karan.'

According to - Library of Congress [USA]

'The war was militarily inconclusive; each side held prisoners and some territory belonging to the other. Losses were relatively heavy—on the Pakistani side, twenty aircraft, 200 tanks, and 3,800 troops. Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but a continuation of the fighting would only have led to further losses and ultimate defeat for Pakistan. Most Pakistanis, schooled in the belief of their own martial prowess, refused to accept the possibility of their country's military defeat by "Hindu India" and were, instead, quick to blame their failure to attain their military aims on what they considered to be the ineptitude of Ayub Khan and his government.'

Accodring to - Devin Hagerty

'The invading Indian forces outfought their Pakistani counterparts and halted their attack on the outskirts of Lahore, Pakistan's second-largest city. By the time United Nations intervened on September 22, Pakistan had suffered a clear defeat.'

According to - Gertjan Djikin

'The superior Indian forces, however, won a decisive victory and the army could have even marched on into Pakistani territory had external pressure not forced both combatants to cease their war efforts.'



Hope that helped.

"By all accounts the courage displayed by the Pakistan Air Force
pilots is reminiscent of the bravery of the few young and dedicated
pilots who saved this country from Nazi invaders in the critical
Battle of Britain during the last war."

Patrick Seale,
The Observer, London,
September 12, 1965.


"Pakistan claims to have destroyed something like 1/3rd the Indian
Air Force, and foreign observers, who are in a position to know say
that Pakistani pilots have claimed even higher kills than this; but
the Pakistani Air Force are being scrupulously honest in evaluating
these claims. They are crediting Pakistan Air Force only those
killings that can be checked from other sources."

Roy Meloni,
American Broadcasting Corporation
September 15, 1965.


The London Daily Mirror reported: "There is a smell of death in the
burning Pakistan sun. For it was here that India's attacking forces
came to a dead stop.

"During the night they threw in every reinforcement they could find.
But wave after wave of attacks were repulsed by the Pakistanis"

"India", said the London Daily Times, "is being soundly beaten by a
nation which is outnumbered by four and a half to one in population
and three to one in size of armed forces."

In Times reporter Louis Karrar wrote: "Who can defeat a nation which
knows how to play hide and seek with death".



“For the PAF, the 1965 war was as climatic as the Israeli victory over the Arabs in 1967. A further similarity was that Indian air power had an approximately 5:1 numerical superiority at the start of the conflict. Unlike the Middle East conflict, the Pakistani air victory was achieved to a large degree by air-to-air combat rather than on ground. But it was as absolute as that attained by Israel.

USA - Aviation Week & Space Technology - December 1968 issue.

 

[American Pakistani]

>>>>>>>>>>>Pakistan.......India

Air War>>>>>> 2................0
Land War>>>>> 1................1
Sea War>>>>>> 2................1

Hope you got your answere.