Who is an Indian?

[Levina]

On further thought - how do you view your linguistic identity?

That's a double edged sword. Linguistic identities are not the monolithic entities which people often take them for, with the result that individuals get misinterpreted based on the way they speak, provoking prejudice and discrimination.

While filling many forms in UK I have to tick ethnic categories one of which is "British - Pakistani"

Did I claim anything against it?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

'civilization

Amorphous, vague, nebulous, without any shape or form. This can mean anything, Point being you use this to make la la la into your "civilization". It is catch all bucket for anything you feel like chucking in.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

There is no such thing - the history of South Asia incorporates multiple civilizations, empires and kingdoms.

Choosing to arbitrarily call it all an 'Indian Civilization' to appropriate all regional history as part of an expansionist Hindutva ideology doesn't make it so.

South Asian empires adopted the same cultural basis- hell they actually adoped the same epics- Ramayana and the same scriptures. If Tulsi Das wrote Ram Charit Manas in central India, Kamba Ramayanam was followed in Dravidian lands. Hindu philosophers like the Adi Shankaracharya encompassed their spread across all the areas of Hindu heartland. Sanskrit was the language of the scholars in every part of the land from North to South. 'indian civilization' was always bigger and more deep rooted.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Did I claim anything against it?

No. Point being is to the outside world "Punjabi, Pashtun, Sindhi" are not used. The national orgin becomes the "ethnic group" whereas we know in context it is NOT a ethnic group but a aggregate term.

Ps. The outside world will go along with whatever descriptor a group insists on. They are not about to get embroiled in local politics. If most Pakistani's in UK insisted on being called "Martiana" trust me UK government would go along. They want a tag for their statistical purposes.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Who is an "indian?" Anyone who is from india I guess.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The precise meaning of "ethnic" is very subjective. However most people would say Pakistan or India are a aggregates made up of ethnic units. Proof can be seen in how the differant Indian states or Pakistani provinces are loosely wound around a dominant ethnic group. You know Kerala is mostly Malayali speaking or Tamil Nadu is mostly Tamil speaking and in Pakistan Punjab is mostly Punjabi. This conforms the existance of ethnic groups as these provinces/states are woven around ethnic groups.

However in USA the states are NOT woven around ethnic groups. Florida is not home to a select ethnic group and neither is Nevada or Maryland. These are just administrative/historical units and are not built around a given ethnic group.

However in UK Wales, Scotland are ethnic groups as in Welsh or Scot.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Lol
You should tell that to Auckland university which ranks #87 in the world.
I'm sure ppl running the universiry have more knowledge than you and me.

Or they are just catering to a large student body of a particular national origin.

Pakistanis and Indians fall under the 'Asian' category in the US Census, for example.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Who is an "indian?

Yes, of course. as in citizen of Republic of India. Period. Problem begins when these guys want to dish out retrospective Indian citizenship to everybody who as ever lived in the entire South Asia since recorded history.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

The precise meaning of "ethnic" is very subjective. However most people would say Pakistan or India are a aggregates made up of ethnic units. Proof can be sen in how the differant Indian states or Pakistani provinces are loosely wound around a dominant ethnic group. You know Keral is mostly Malayali speaking or Tamil Nadu is mostly Tamil speaking and in Pakistan Punjab is mostly Punjabi. This conforms the existance of ethnic groups as these provinces/states are woven around ethnic groups.

However in USA the states are NOT woven around ethnic groups. Flordia is not home a select ethnic group and neither is Nevada or Maryland. This are just administrative/historical units and are not built around a given ethnic group.

However in UK Wales, Scotland are ethnic groups as in Welsh or Scot.

There is no racial aspect to how people are aggregated in India- it is primarily linguistic. And linguistic aggregation also does not have any racial insertions. Because of 'distance' the vernacular dialects evolved into full fledged languages of their own. Pretty soon people speaking a certain language continued to live together and their mobility to other areas became more restricted.

Yes, of course. as in citizen of Republic of India. Period. Problem begins when these guys want to dish out retrospective Indian citizenship to everybody who as ever lived in the entire South Asia since recorded history.

That's our policy, why are you so concerned?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

South Asian empires adopted the same cultural basis- hell they actually adoped the same epics- Ramayana and the same scriptures.

I disagree - the IVC for example has very little known about it to make the argument that it was in any way even remotely similar, religiously, to modern Hinduism. I'm not an "Arab or Persian or Afghan or Ottoman or Central Asian or part of any of the civilizations linked to those groups for following Islam and the Arab/Persian/Afghan/Ottoman/Central Asian practices that were brought into what today is Pakistan, over millenias.

You seem to think that cultural and civilizational evolution in South Asia followed some kind of linear and geographically delimited process, which then allows you to pigeon hole arbitrarily chosen peoples and lands into this expansionist Hindutva template of 'Indian Civilization and One India'.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

helluva lot of pot smoker

Oh yeh. son I come from the indus basin. May I ask which part of India you are from? Ganga or Dravidian. My guess is Dravidian. For you to delude youreself into floating all the way to Indus basin would require pharmaceutical grade hallucinogenic drugs with thrusters.

And don't tag me. Achoots tagging me is forbidden. If you self declare you are a Indian Punjabi, Brahmins and Kshatriya class fine. Other than that only by special dispensation. I am not Hindu but I find some of it's concepts fascinating.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

I disagree - the IVC for example has very little known about it to make the argument that it was in any way even remotely similar, religiously, to modern Hinduism. I'm not an "Arab or Persian or Afghan or Ottoman or Central Asian or part of any of the civilizations linked to those groups for following Islam and the Arab/Persian/Afghan/Ottoman/Central Asian practices that were brought into what today is Pakistan, over millenias.

You seem to think that cultural and civilizational evolution in South Asia followed some kind of linear and geographically delimited process, which then allows you to pigeon hole arbitrarily chosen peoples and lands into this expansionist Hindutva template of 'Indian Civilization and One India'.

It is a very clear fact that no matter what the kingdoms, the cultural basis of those were from India. Especially the adoption of the epics of Ramayana and Mahabharata. The second basis is the adoption of Budhism in countries. It is very similar to how you define Islamic civilization based on the Holy Quran and it's teachings. The basis for the civilizations that spread from India were the two epics of Hinduism and Budhism.

As far as IVC is concerned, yes very little is known about them. But clear evidence that later evolution of the sub continent (especially hindusim) did adopt figures that go all the way back to the IVC has been found. Especially 'Pashupati' or 'Proto Shiva' who eventually rose to become one of the greatest deities of Hinduism.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

That's our policy, why are you so concerned?

Go ahead but do not include us or anybody from the Indus basin. We do NOT want to be associated with the humoungous sea of achoots, Adavasis and the other distinguished peoples in your country.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Oh yeh. son I come from the indus basin. May I ask which part of India you are from? Ganga or Dravidian. My guess is Dravidian. For you to delude youreself into floating all the way to Indus basin would require pharmaceutical grade hallucinogenic drugs with thrusters.

And don't tag me. Achoots tagging me is forbidden. If you self declare you are a Indian Punjabi, Brahmins and Kshatriya class fine. Other than that only by special dispensation. I am not Hindu but I find some of it's concepts fascinating.

'Think Tank Analyst' my @$$

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Hitite Swastika, Anatolia, turkey

Swastika Crete

Swastika - Roman, in Spain.

Swastika - greek

inscription on the Værløse Fibula reading alugod followed by a swastika. Denmark

Now sonny are you going to tell me Ancient Greeks, Ancient Germans, Ancient Danes, Ancient Crete and Ancient Rome were all Hindu or Proto Hindu?

That seal from Harappa is seal and you can apply anything on it and make it proto Rastafarian if you delude yourself enough.

'Think Tank Analyst' my @$$

I was only applying precepts of "your civilization"? You should be enamoured not annoyed.