Which country is China's best/true friend?

[Aepsilons]

Pakistan of course.


Yes, you are so daring.

Our countries could not be friends especially with your narrow minded and hypocratic politicians. If you check Abe was interviewed by Chinabroadcast agencies then you will find the clues.

We have same culture root and could be another brotherhood country if we keep fighting like UK and France for over 100 years.

So Japan will not be an option. We know you too much and deeper.

You know that China tradition and culture hate both 真小人 and 伪君子 and we hate 伪君子 more. We only worship loyalty and honesty.

But I have to admit that Japan is somehow better than some of our neighbors which land is bordering us.

BTW, your slogan smells that have more than 70 years old.

Bridges and Obstacles to Understanding , Path towards Sino - Japanese Cooperation




Perhaps the most obvious fact highlighted by the November meeting was the fragile state of Japan-China ties today and the constant vigilance that is still required to keep them on track. It is sobering to think that, more than four decades since the normalization of relations in 1972, our top leaders must forge a formal agreement calling not merely for political fence mending but for resumption of economic, cultural, and social relations. Moreover, the meeting between Abe and Xi has in no way resolved the fundamental historical and territorial issues that precipitated the recent chill in Japan-China ties. All it produced was an agreement by the two leaders to contain these intractable issues as best as they can. Needless to say, this will require self-restraint on both sides.

A basic source of friction between Japan and China is the latter’s ever-growing and increasingly assertive military presence in the East China and South China Seas, including the area around the Senkaku Islands. Unfortunately, this behavior is unlikely to change as a result of the summit. Nor is Japan likely to depart from its longstanding policy of patiently relying on the Coast Guard and Maritime Self-Defense Forces to deal with the situation. Given the unlikelihood of a fundamental solution or a compromise by China anytime soon, we must content ourselves for now (perhaps for another year, perhaps for another three decades) with measures to ensure that tensions do not escalate into a full-blown crisis.

An even more fundamental problem—one that government-level talks have little power to change—is public opinion and the perception gap between the Japanese and the Chinese people with respect to their countries’ policies and positions in the international order. A “mutually beneficial relationship based on common strategic interests” is all very well as a diplomatic slogan, but neither the Japanese nor the Chinese people have a clear idea of what such a relationship would look like or what role the other country would play in it. Largely as a consequence, mutual hostility between the Japanese and Chinese people has intensified over the past several years.

The results of the 2014 Japan-China Opinion Poll conducted by Genron NPO are revealing in this regard. [6] The following are some of the survey’s key findings.

1. In both Japan and China, the share of respondents with an “unfavorable” or “relatively unfavorable” impression of the other country stands at roughly 90%.

2. These negative images notwithstanding, about 70% in both countries agree that “the Japan-China relationship is important” and at least that many on each side see the worsening feeling between their two nations as a concern. (Specifically, 79.4% of Japanese respondents and 70.4% of Chinese respondents chose either “This is an undesirable situation; I have concerns,” or “The situation is a problem, and it needs to be resolved.”)

3. In Japan, the portion of those with an “unfavorable” or “relatively unfavorable” impression of China rose 2.9 points from the previous year to reach 93%, the highest level recorded since the survey began in 2005. In China, the corresponding figure was 86.8%, down 6 points from its peak in 2013.

4. The top reasons respondents identified for their negative impressions of the other country were as follows.

Top Japanese reasons for unfavorable impression of China:

• Behavior incompatible with international norms (55.1%)
• Selfish policies for securing resources, energy, food, etc. (52.8%)
• Criticism of Japan over historical issues, etc. (52.2%)

Top Chinese reasons for unfavorable impression of Japan:

• Kindling of territorial dispute through government purchase of Diaoyu Islands (64.0%)
• Failure to apologize adequately or show sufficient remorse for past aggression against China (59.6%)
• Policy of working with the United States to contain China militarily, economically, and ideologically (41.8%)

5. Meanwhile, the top five reasons Chinese respondents identified for positive feelings toward Japan were as follows.

• High quality of Japanese goods (57.2%)
• Earnest, hardworking character of the Japanese people (53.8%)
• Kindness, courtesy, and high cultural level of the Japanese people (52.6%)
• Japan’s advanced technology (41.0%)
• Japan’s physical cleanliness and hygiene (38.2%)

As I see it, there are three important insights to be drawn from these survey results.

First, while the level of negative feeling between our two nations is deplorable, it bears noting that a majority of people in both countries wish for better ties. This is not to paint an overly optimistic picture or to suggest that improving bilateral relations will be an easy task. But these findings do indicate that the will for rapprochement is there, and if our leaders can get things moving in that direction, I believe they have a good chance of succeeding.

Second, the survey highlights significant differences in the reasons for each side’s negative images of the other. For China, the keywords are “historical issues,” “Diaoyu Islands,” and “containment,” in that order. For Japan, they are “international norms,” “Chinese foreign policy,” and “reaction to historical issues.”

Third, given the top reasons for China’s unfavorable and favorable impressions of Japan (findings 4 and 5), we can surmise that a key to building friendship is to promote people-to-people exchange, even as we seek a political resolution to the historical and territorial issues. At the risk of sounding simplistic, I would venture to suggest that the best and fastest way to improve the Chinese people’s image of Japan is to have more of them visit the country, come into contact with Japanese society and people, buy Japanese products and souvenirs, and return home laden with fond memories.

Thanks in large part to the falling yen, a record number of international tourists visited Japan in the first 10 months of 2014. During that time, the number of Chinese tourists jumped 80.3% from the same period in 2013, passing the 2 million mark to set a new record.[7] This is an extremely welcome development not only from Japan’s economic vantage point but also from the standpoint of Japan-China relations.




Reference:

Post-Summit Prognosis for Japan-China Relations — The Tokyo Foundation

 

[jkroo]

Bridges and Obstacles to Understanding , Path towards Sino - Japanese Cooperation




Perhaps the most obvious fact highlighted by the November meeting was the fragile state of Japan-China ties today and the constant vigilance that is still required to keep them on track. It is sobering to think that, more than four decades since the normalization of relations in 1972, our top leaders must forge a formal agreement calling not merely for political fence mending but for resumption of economic, cultural, and social relations. Moreover, the meeting between Abe and Xi has in no way resolved the fundamental historical and territorial issues that precipitated the recent chill in Japan-China ties. All it produced was an agreement by the two leaders to contain these intractable issues as best as they can. Needless to say, this will require self-restraint on both sides.

A basic source of friction between Japan and China is the latter’s ever-growing and increasingly assertive military presence in the East China and South China Seas, including the area around the Senkaku Islands. Unfortunately, this behavior is unlikely to change as a result of the summit. Nor is Japan likely to depart from its longstanding policy of patiently relying on the Coast Guard and Maritime Self-Defense Forces to deal with the situation. Given the unlikelihood of a fundamental solution or a compromise by China anytime soon, we must content ourselves for now (perhaps for another year, perhaps for another three decades) with measures to ensure that tensions do not escalate into a full-blown crisis.

An even more fundamental problem—one that government-level talks have little power to change—is public opinion and the perception gap between the Japanese and the Chinese people with respect to their countries’ policies and positions in the international order. A “mutually beneficial relationship based on common strategic interests” is all very well as a diplomatic slogan, but neither the Japanese nor the Chinese people have a clear idea of what such a relationship would look like or what role the other country would play in it. Largely as a consequence, mutual hostility between the Japanese and Chinese people has intensified over the past several years.

The results of the 2014 Japan-China Opinion Poll conducted by Genron NPO are revealing in this regard. [6] The following are some of the survey’s key findings.

1. In both Japan and China, the share of respondents with an “unfavorable” or “relatively unfavorable” impression of the other country stands at roughly 90%.

2. These negative images notwithstanding, about 70% in both countries agree that “the Japan-China relationship is important” and at least that many on each side see the worsening feeling between their two nations as a concern. (Specifically, 79.4% of Japanese respondents and 70.4% of Chinese respondents chose either “This is an undesirable situation; I have concerns,” or “The situation is a problem, and it needs to be resolved.”)

3. In Japan, the portion of those with an “unfavorable” or “relatively unfavorable” impression of China rose 2.9 points from the previous year to reach 93%, the highest level recorded since the survey began in 2005. In China, the corresponding figure was 86.8%, down 6 points from its peak in 2013.

4. The top reasons respondents identified for their negative impressions of the other country were as follows.

Top Japanese reasons for unfavorable impression of China:

• Behavior incompatible with international norms (55.1%)
• Selfish policies for securing resources, energy, food, etc. (52.8%)
• Criticism of Japan over historical issues, etc. (52.2%)

Top Chinese reasons for unfavorable impression of Japan:

• Kindling of territorial dispute through government purchase of Diaoyu Islands (64.0%)
• Failure to apologize adequately or show sufficient remorse for past aggression against China (59.6%)
• Policy of working with the United States to contain China militarily, economically, and ideologically (41.8%)

5. Meanwhile, the top five reasons Chinese respondents identified for positive feelings toward Japan were as follows.

• High quality of Japanese goods (57.2%)
• Earnest, hardworking character of the Japanese people (53.8%)
• Kindness, courtesy, and high cultural level of the Japanese people (52.6%)
• Japan’s advanced technology (41.0%)
• Japan’s physical cleanliness and hygiene (38.2%)

As I see it, there are three important insights to be drawn from these survey results.

First, while the level of negative feeling between our two nations is deplorable, it bears noting that a majority of people in both countries wish for better ties. This is not to paint an overly optimistic picture or to suggest that improving bilateral relations will be an easy task. But these findings do indicate that the will for rapprochement is there, and if our leaders can get things moving in that direction, I believe they have a good chance of succeeding.

Second, the survey highlights significant differences in the reasons for each side’s negative images of the other. For China, the keywords are “historical issues,” “Diaoyu Islands,” and “containment,” in that order. For Japan, they are “international norms,” “Chinese foreign policy,” and “reaction to historical issues.”

Third, given the top reasons for China’s unfavorable and favorable impressions of Japan (findings 4 and 5), we can surmise that a key to building friendship is to promote people-to-people exchange, even as we seek a political resolution to the historical and territorial issues. At the risk of sounding simplistic, I would venture to suggest that the best and fastest way to improve the Chinese people’s image of Japan is to have more of them visit the country, come into contact with Japanese society and people, buy Japanese products and souvenirs, and return home laden with fond memories.

Thanks in large part to the falling yen, a record number of international tourists visited Japan in the first 10 months of 2014. During that time, the number of Chinese tourists jumped 80.3% from the same period in 2013, passing the 2 million mark to set a new record.[7] This is an extremely welcome development not only from Japan’s economic vantage point but also from the standpoint of Japan-China relations.




Reference:

Post-Summit Prognosis for Japan-China Relations — The Tokyo Foundation

You should open another thread.

Polls from your side is enough. 2CH? Newspaper? Those can't support your opinion.

To be frank, Japan will not be in the list if you are not totally independent from US.

 

[Aepsilons]

Yes, you are so daring.

Japan and China are civilization partners , as the two are the pillars of Greater East Asia. On this aspect coupled with racial and cultural similarities, the two are natural power partners. I refuse to believe that China and Japan will remain ambivalent towards each other indefinitely or will continue to view each other as 'rivals' when this was not the case for the majority of Japanese-Chinese historical relationship over a span of 26 centuries. Out of 26 centuries of diplomatic rapport, maybe Japan and China had 'conflict' for a total of 100 years. But what is 1 century compared to 26 centuries of unprecedented cultural, diplomatic and economic brotherhood? I believe it is nill and will be inconsequential in the future. Relations are improving, to unprecedented heights, and on this aspect, I am optimistic that in the future --- a Japanese - Chinese Alliance will not be impossible.

You should open another thread.

Polls from your side is enough. 2CH? Newspaper? Those can't support your opinion.

To be frank, Japan will not be in the list if you are totally independent from US.

I refuse to believe that, @jkroo . In my view, Japan and China's future will be intertwined. As for America, she will not remain supreme forever, even now, Japan is lifting the restraints that America has bounded Japan in these past 7 decades. This reality is merely gift wrapped in diplomatic pleasantries. But we Japanese know the reality.

Japan is a civilization state that is over 2700 centuries old. Even before there was even an America, there was already a Japan. And Japan will continue to exist another 2700 centuries, hopefully, linked with China, our civilizational peer.

 

[jkroo]

Japan and China are civilization partners , as the two are the pillars of Greater East Asia. On this aspect coupled with racial and cultural similarities, the two are natural power partners. I refuse to believe that China and Japan will remain ambivalent towards each other indefinitely or will continue to view each other as 'rivals' when this was not the case for the majority of Japanese-Chinese historical relationship over a span of 26 centuries. Out of 26 centuries of diplomatic rapport, maybe Japan and China had 'conflict' for a total of 100 years. But what is 1 century compared to 26 centuries of unprecedented cultural, diplomatic and economic brotherhood? I believe it is nill and will be inconsequential in the future. Relations are improving, to unprecedented heights, and on this aspect, I am optimistic that in the future --- a Japanese - Chinese Alliance will not be impossible.

Could be possible for I have said above.

Currently some problems, I will put it simple.

1. Politics. USA

2. Economy. Ok

3. Military. Abandon target China as your enemy and US base.

4. Civilians. See your 2CH polls and comments first.

5. collective Emotion and ambition. See 4 and you should study your foreign policy of the time frame from 1970s to 2010s

Now 1/5.

Do you think it is rational??? Maybe we should borrow some futuristic tongue from some people of another country.

Japan and China are civilization partners , as the two are the pillars of Greater East Asia. On this aspect coupled with racial and cultural similarities, the two are natural power partners. I refuse to believe that China and Japan will remain ambivalent towards each other indefinitely or will continue to view each other as 'rivals' when this was not the case for the majority of Japanese-Chinese historical relationship over a span of 26 centuries. Out of 26 centuries of diplomatic rapport, maybe Japan and China had 'conflict' for a total of 100 years. But what is 1 century compared to 26 centuries of unprecedented cultural, diplomatic and economic brotherhood? I believe it is nill and will be inconsequential in the future. Relations are improving, to unprecedented heights, and on this aspect, I am optimistic that in the future --- a Japanese - Chinese Alliance will not be impossible.




I refuse to believe that, @jkroo . In my view, Japan and China's future will be intertwined. As for America, she will not remain supreme forever, even now, Japan is lifting the restraints that America has bounded Japan in these past 7 decades. This reality is merely gift wrapped in diplomatic pleasantries. But we Japanese know the reality.

Japan is a civilization state that is over 2700 centuries old. Even before there was even an America, there was already a Japan. And Japan will continue to exist another 2700 centuries, hopefully, linked with China, our civilizational peer.

So you know the reality. We know you know it.

Take your chance. Time is limited.

What I want to reminder you is that dance on top of eggs is very dangerous.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Could be possible for I have said above.

Currently some problems, I will put it simple.

1. Politics. USA

2. Economy. Ok

3. Military. Abandon target China as your enemy and US base.

4. Civilians. See your 2CH polls and comments first.

5. collective Emotion and ambition. See 4 and you should study your foreign policy of the time frame from 1970s to 2010s

Now 1/5.

Do you think it is rational??? Maybe we should borrow some futuristic tongue from some people of another country.

Well if China continues to grow at the same pace then may be Japan has no other option but to call truce. It was reported earlier that the Japanese Air Force is really facing a big problem because of increased activity due to Chinese Air Force.

An other side of the story is that USA is no more interested in continuing with many overseas military bases due to the financial problem. There is also a lot of public anger that they are facing back home who think that the role of World Policeman is making the entire world an enemy of USA.

 

[Aepsilons]

Could be possible for I have said above.

Currently some problems, I will put it simple.

1. Politics. USA

2. Economy. Ok

3. Military. Abandon target China as your enemy and US base.

4. Civilians. See your 2CH polls and comments first.

5. collective Emotion and ambition. See 4 and you should study your foreign policy of the time frame from 1970s to 2010s

Now 1/5.

Do you think it is rational??? Maybe we should borrow some futuristic tongue from some people of another country.


So you know the reality. We know you know it.

Take your chance. Time is limited.

What I want to reminder you is that dance on top of eggs is very dangerous.

We are living in 2015. And most likely you and I will be dead by 2070. But Japan and China will not , what may have seemed an 'impossibility' to our generation and our parents' generations may not necessarily be the same for the generation of our grand children, great-grand children.

Again, I remain optimistic. A 100 years is nothing in the lifetime of an ancient civilization state such as Japan and China.

 

[jkroo]

We are living in 2015. And most likely you and I will be dead by 2070. But Japan and China will not , what may have seemed an 'impossibility' to our generation and our parents' generations may not necessarily be the same for the generation of our grand children, great-grand children.

Again, I remain optimistic. A 100 years is nothing in the lifetime of an ancient civilization state such as Japan and China.

Apparently sentimental and you got it.

China have been there for more than 5000 years. Ancient wisdom still guide us. We used to observe things with a long time frame and I got my opinion. True friends will always be true friends who can't be pretended and betrayed.

I think truth is there and I will end the discussion here. Thanx.

 

[name]

[QUOTE = "Edison Chen, post: 7077658, thành viên: 148833"] Vì vậy, đặt BoQ77 sang một bên, Việt Nam vẫn có thể không phải là một người bạn tốt của Trung Quốc trừ khi vấn đề được giải quyết một cách hòa bình Biển Đông, và đó là giám khảo không thể bởi tình hình hiện tại. Lãnh thổ là lợi ích cốt lõi của bất cứ nước nào, hai bên sẽ không thỏa hiệp với những người khác. Tôi vẫn không hiểu tại sao nếu Trung Quốc sụp đổ, họ sẽ cảm thấy buồn? Thực tế Trung Quốc và Việt Nam có nhiều điểm tương đồng, một số có cảm xúc và cảm xúc giống nhau, tôi biết một số người đàn ông trẻ tuổi của Việt Nam như văn hóa Trung Quốc, nhưng điều này là không đủ, Việt Nam không thể là một người bạn tốt của Trung Quốc, ít nhất là như Pakistan kiểu tình bạn. [/ QUOTE]
WOLF WARRIOR - hdonline.vn


Read comments

 

[hans]

Pakistan
Without any doubt...

We know that friendship is never a thing of eternal, so how about just focus on the current situation.
Pakistan maybe?

 

[BoQ77]

So put BoQ77 aside, Vietnam still can't be a good friend of China unless the SCS issue is solved peacefully, and that's impossible judging by current situation. Territory is the core interest of any country, both sides won't compromise with others. I still don't understand why if China collapse, they will feel sad? Indeed China and Vietnam share many similarities, some have the same emotion and feelings, I know some Vietnamese young man like Chinese culture, but this is not enough, Vietnam can't be a good friend of China, at least like Pakistan type friendship.

So you concluded that it must be a non-neighbor to be true friend of China? Like Cambodia, Thailand ...
Regarding to SCS, depend on the attitude of China, aggressive or not, China could find all is foe or in reverse.

So "if you want to have a friend, you act as friends, if you want to have enemies, you create reasons to turn them enemies"

You don't know them at all. @BoQ77 trolls calmly and respectfully, unlike Niceguy or others, he tries to avoid ban. Personally I'm tired of this guy's two-faced tactics, he talks like a good guy, but his aim is to troll. Understand?

LOL what's "troll calmly and respectfully" ? Maybe that's too dangerous, so you guys worried about that more than real trolling?

Btw, I was banned 2 times, total 3 weeks in a month, for NOTHING. That's Husongshan mistake. That prove I'm too dangerous. LOL

No. That means you guys fear the power of Truth. Always try your best to cover/censor the Truth

@edison : how you judge the relation with Vietnam. Do you have any direct contact to Vietnam?
I have. Of course, I'm not type of last year rioters, I'm a good partner of from small to big corp in China, like Chinalco in Zibo Shandong, Pingguo Guangxi or small producer in Shunde, Foshan, Guangzhou, Yunnan ... Han or other minorities.
We promoted and joined each other wedding, happy with each other good things, kid ...

We call each other friends in the meaning of good manner relationship.

My father appreciate the kindness of his Chinese teachers and nurses during his study in Guilin 1953-1957 alongside with Mr. Nong Duc Manh and many others ( still a kid at that moment ).
All is the children of high level officials

This article with audio talking about that school
Tình hữu nghị Việt – Trung núi sông liền một dải ngày càng bền chặtⅡ - Đài phát thanh quốc tế Trung Quốc

If China lost Vietnam as friend. That's a big and regretful loss.

those also study in Lushan, Guilin. The photo taken in a ceremony of 61 years since 1953.

 

[Edison Chen]

So you concluded that it must be a non-neighbor to be true friend of China? Like Cambodia, Thailand ...
Regarding to SCS, depend on the attitude of China, aggressive or not, China could find all is foe or in reverse.

So "if you want to have a friend, you act as friends, if you want to have enemies, you create reasons to turn them enemies"



LOL what's "troll calmly and respectfully" ? Maybe that's too dangerous, so you guys worried about that more than real trolling?

Btw, I was banned 2 times, total 3 weeks in a month, for NOTHING. That's Husongshan mistake. That prove I'm too dangerous. LOL

No. That means you guys fear the power of Truth. Always try your best to cover/censor the Truth

@edison : how you judge the relation with Vietnam. Do you have any direct contact to Vietnam?
I have. Of course, I'm not type of last year rioters, I'm a good partner of from small to big corp in China, like Chinalco in Zibo Shandong, Pingguo Guangxi or small producer in Shunde, Foshan, Guangzhou, Yunnan ... Han or other minorities.
We promoted and joined each other wedding, happy with each other good things, kid ...

We call each other friends in the meaning of good manner relationship.

My father appreciate the kindness of his Chinese teachers and nurses during his study in Guilin 1953-1957 alongside with Mr. Nong Duc Manh and many others ( still a kid at that moment ).

If China lost Vietnam as friend. That's a big and regretful loss.

those also study in Lushan, Guilin. The photo taken in a ceremony of 61 years since 1953.

Please, that's your personal experience, not a common thing. And we have business partner everywhere in the world, could be from any place including your enemies, again we're talking about the country as a whole, not only your own story.

 

[BoQ77]

Please, that's your personal experience, not a common thing. And we have business partner everywhere in the world, could be from any place including your enemies, again we're talking about the country as a whole, not only your own story.

You are pulling out your conclusion from your imagination? or by propaganda of hawks ?
Anything else different, about Pak - China friendship?

During 1945-1950: Vietnam asked USA and Soviet Union for help teaching our young. No response. China did. So Vietnam appreciate that so much.

Vietnam communists fight side by side with China communists against KMT in China until 1949.

China losing all long after that when their acts show Vietnam that there's no difference between Chinese communism or non-communism, both shared the same.

So being a neighbor sharing the sea boundary at the same time being a friend. Is it impossible with China? Vietnam never has big issue about this with any other, MY, ID, TH, PH ...

 

[William Hung]

So put BoQ77 aside, Vietnam still can't be a good friend of China unless the SCS issue is solved peacefully, and that's impossible judging by current situation. Territory is the core interest of any country, both sides won't compromise with others. I still don't understand why if China collapse, they will feel sad? Indeed China and Vietnam share many similarities, some have the same emotion and feelings, I know some Vietnamese young man like Chinese culture, but this is not enough, Vietnam can't be a good friend of China, at least like Pakistan type friendship.

I was just saying that a military/geo-political forum like PDF should be a place to learn and discuss about truth. We all can't really make a genuine friendship here since most of us will never meet in real life anyway. So if we are to discuss about the truth, then it's better to have people like BoQ77 who speak calmly and respectfully. Or do you prefer members here to twist the truth and speak nice but false things about you to make you feel happy? That's what we do in real life (or facebook), but a geo-political forum should be a place for everyone to discuss about things truthfully. In real life, we don't usually have much chance to do that, people will always avoid political chit chat or twist the truth/hide their true views in order to avoid personal hostility.

So we should appreciate people speaking about the truth here, even if the truth won't be good to hear. As long as they are not giving disinformation, we should appreciate it. We Vietnamese are just naturally curious about the truth and like to discuss them. But most Chinese members here consider it as hostile or trolling. The reality is, we just want to discuss it and learn from it. I've previously made plenty of threads on some undesirable truth about VietNam. @BoQ77 even created a special thread dedicated to ugly truths about Vietnam.

And naturally, we are also curious about truths from other countries and would like to discuss it and learn from other members here. A lot of us Vietnamese have Chinese friends in real life, but they will never talk about their true political views in order not to harm our personal friendships. So for us, forums like PDF, should be the place to discuss geo-politics calmly and truthfully, then we can all learn from each other.

I'll give you an example, I once talked about China's non-interventionism and question whether that policy will be sustainable. I then supported that question by providing an academic source in which an Arab scholar talks about the current affairs in the M.E., how they view China as an interventionist power, and their negative perspective on China. Then a whole bunch of Chinese members jumped in to call me a China basher, an Indian promoting anti-China western propaganda, etc. And do you know what the funny thing is?? Some of those Chinese members are now here in this thread asking the question, "why does Jordan and Egypt hate us? This is beyond my comprehension."

That's why, I appreciate members like BoQ77, Lux de Veritas, NiceGuy, etc. They may sometime talk about unconvienient and undesirable truths, but they are still truths that we can discuss and learn from.

As for the China VietNam friendship, I was referring to true friendship as opposed to "friendship of convenience" or "fair-weather friends." I raised the "China collapse" scenario to use as an example because it is often in times of difficulties that we find out who are our true friends and who are merely our "fair-weather friends." So how can Vietnamese feel sad when China collapse? Well, I once wrote that Vietnamese anti-China sentiment is primarily political, it is a response to political events, specifically the SCS skirmishes. So if China collapses, do you think those political sentiments will still linger? No, because China will no longer have the time and resource to focus on the SCS dispute in such scenario, this means that the Vietnamese anti-China sentiment which originated from the SCS skirmishes will also disappear. You can check for yourself the surveys before 2008 and see that Vietnamese rated China highly back then.

But I agree with you, at the rate and direction of how things are going, the SCS dispute will escalate and I'm not feeling optimistic about this political issues getting solved anytime soon. We just have to accept the truth. In fact, someone just created a thread on how a Chinese Coast Guard has just blasted a Filipino fishing boat with water cannon. So for the foreseeable future, I see the political sentiments in each dispute country will linger on. But I retain my belief that in times of trouble, for example if China collapses, VietNam will turn out to be a true friend of China. I'm not saying VietNam can save China, but that VietNam will truely feel sad about what China will go through...while some other countries will just think who they should do business with next.

But honestly, reading the comments in this thread from the Chinese members, it sounds like China is one of those people that is extremely hard to make friends with. It's like a person sitting in one corner and no matter how hard other people tries to approach him, he still think they cannot be true friends and give 101 reasons why. See, a Japanese member gave rational reasons why China-Japan can be good friends but some Chinese member said, nope I don't believe you, not good enough! I give my own explanation how VN-CN is true friends based on sentimental and emotional values, but still, that's not good enough. So now, I really have no idea.

 

[BoQ77]

China could have several so so friends, but a true friend as Vietnam, it's not easy for China to find somewhere.

 

[Muzits]

Please, that's your personal experience, not a common thing. And we have business partner everywhere in the world, could be from any place including your enemies, again we're talking about the country as a whole, not only your own story.

like i said...u don't even have to reply to those uncilvilized vietnamese at all...just ignore them!
everytime seeing their names on this forum remind me of bunch of circus freak
so why wasting ur time on bunch of greedy and ungrateful illiterates like them?! = =