Where to go from here?

[VCheng]

This and others like him are the reason why extremists get more support these dumbos have hardly any idea about Islam but want to talk about it there fore ending up talking bullshit and proving support to TTP

Actually, the terrorists have support because of extremists like you.

 

[Solomon2]

...It is time to reverse these trends and ensuring that Pakistan is put before all else, including religion -

Any Pakistanis detect signs of movement on this issue over the past six months?

 

[VCheng]

Any Pakistanis detect signs of movement on this issue over the past six months?

The three short term goals identified (controlling madrassah financing, propaganda and hideouts) are all well underway across the country and yielding results. The three longer term goals (re-aligning political, educational and military thinking) will take much longer to achieve and it remains to be seen whether there will be similar progress in these aspects in the longer term.

 

[Solomon2]

...The three longer term goals (re-aligning political, educational and military thinking) will take much longer to achieve and it remains to be seen whether there will be similar progress in these aspects in the longer term.

What are you doing about this?

 

[VCheng]

What are you doing about this?

What would you suggest that needs to be done to encourage these long term goals?

 

[Solomon2]

What would you suggest that needs to be done to encourage these long term goals?

You might want to develop your ideas in as much detail as you can, then consider tactics.

 

[VCheng]

You might want to develop your ideas in as much detail as you can, then consider tactics.

Better yet, why don't we leave it to the Pakistanis to figure this out for themselves?

 

[Donatello]

Better yet, why don't we leave it to the Pakistanis to figure this out for themselves?

Were you hibernating?

 

[GURU DUTT]

dear sir @Syed.Ali.Haider

things will never change until and unless feudalism is uprooted and writt of state is evident in daily life and all the state institutions start working and dilivering in pakistani society

problem is utter poverty and ignorence in pakistani masses children dontjust go to madarsaas for education but food , shelter and safety am i wrong ?

they go to madarsas cause in deu course of time pakistani state machinerry had misraballi failed them on almost all the counts then be it providing saftey,health or education each pakistani low or middle income family has 6-8 kids of which girls stay at home while boys are sent to madarsaas where after spending there childhood come owt radicalised but untrained to get any jobs so most end up working as cheap labours in local houseolds, workshops or eateries where they are abused and exploited on daily basis making them more angry and frutrated (and most start considering that death for allah is much better than there present lifes)thus making them easy pray & cannon fodder to local criminals and tabliqui jamats

rest you can yourself figure owt sir a sto what would be logical end result

 

[Spring Onion]

There can at least be a start to this process of vetting madressas.

Start with Islamabad and the localities. There are many madressas mushrooming in the greenbelts of Islamabad. They start of as a canteen or a 'khokha' and then a little prayer place for the locals and voila, you have a wahabbi mosque sprung up.

No permits, no building approval, no nothing. And this is all in the open. Jamia Dar-ul-Uloomia al Hussainia and such names are sprining up all over Islamabad.

Then comes Bahrakahu...I am venturing as far as saying that after Waziristan and Karachi, Bahrakahu is the next biggest hub of terrorism. I am sure @Icarus would agree with me on this.

There's a mosque down the street from where I live and the imam there regularly used to badmouth the Armed forces and such, even during eid prayers. Stopped praying there afterwards.

At least take a start.

BTW, send this article to DAWN or some other newspaper maybe...

Just close them all. Simple as that. if we cant do then there must be a SARKARI head and Imam in every madrassa and every Mosque.

And also personally I feel the Government should put it in Law that every colony should have just two or One Mosque. You should NOT allow a mosque in every Street.

What is the purpose of prayer even if one can not go to offer prayer at a mosque present at a bit distance. Why these so-called faithful want mosques near their houses so that should not take pain to reach there.

 

[VCheng]

dear sir @Syed.Ali.Haider

things will never change until and unless feudalism is uprooted and writt of state is evident in daily life and all the state institutions start working and dilivering in pakistani society

problem is utter poverty and ignorence in pakistani masses children dontjust go to madarsaas for education but food , shelter and safety am i wrong ?

The root causes and how Pakistan landed itself in the present mess are far easier to understand than trying to suggest and implement effective methods for getting it out of the mess. It is for good reasons rescue personnel are taught to be wary of trying to save a drowning person lest they themselves are pulled down by the desperate flailing, if I can use an analogy. This hold doubly true if the drowning person does not want to be saved, and therein lies the greatest problem.

Just close them all. Simple as that. if we cant do then there must be a SARKARI head and Imam in every madrassa and every Mosque.

And also personally I feel the Government should put it in Law that every colony should have just two or One Mosque. You should NOT allow a mosque in every Street.

What is the purpose of prayer even if one can not go to offer prayer at a mosque present at a bit distance. Why these so-called faithful want mosques near their houses so that should not take pain to reach there.

That is easier said than done, because the religious fanatics know that they have widespread support within the population, and the government itself has long abrogated its own authority by persistent failures to deliver social development. The only agency that can do such drastic actions is the Army, and even that is hobbled by its own reliance of using religion for motivation, and therefore unlikely to do anything.

 

[Solomon2]

...the religious fanatics know that they have widespread support within the population, and the government itself has long abrogated its own authority by persistent failures to deliver social development.

I would argue that the government insists upon authority being higher than law. Officials can call for extra-legal or discriminatory measures upon citizens or groups of citizens. Sometimes I read of them doing this openly (as in the Model U.N. affair, or that Pakistanis, guaranteed freedom of religion, can't change their I.D. cards from Muslim for "administrative reasons") but I see no obstacle to them doing this secretly as well. This reduces the rights of citizens to mere indulgences that can be withdrawn if anyone threatens the status quo. This makes reforming the system to serve citizens very difficult and encourages the employment and training of lawless fanatics to serve the will of officials or powerful private citizens.

 

[VCheng]

This makes reforming the system to serve citizens very difficult and encourages the employment and training of lawless fanatics to serve the will of officials or powerful private citizens.

That is Pakistan in a nutshell. Only the Army is above the law, and rights of everyone else are only what the Army allows or says what they are or not.

At least we agree that the chances of any meaningful reform in this carefully crafted and tended system of choice are slim to none, if one is being charitable.

 

[Solomon2]

That is Pakistan in a nutshell. Only the Army is above the law, and rights of everyone else are only what the Army allows or says what they are or not.

At least we agree that the chances of any meaningful reform in this carefully crafted and tended system of choice are slim to none, if one is being charitable.

I don't agree that chances to reform the system are non-existent. The British reformed their corrupt royal-parliamentary system starting in the late eighteenth century with John Wilkes successful campaign against general warrants. It was made possible by peaceful civil disobedience and stubbornness by his Middlesex constituency.

 

[VCheng]

I don't agree that chances to reform the system are non-existent. The British reformed their corrupt royal-parliamentary system starting in the late eighteenth century with John Wilkes successful campaign against general warrants. It was made possible by peaceful civil disobedience and stubbornness by his Middlesex constituency.

Perhaps I know Pakistan better than you give me credit for? For certain, it is no Britain.