Where to go from here?

[VCheng]

Those panchayats and jirgas are disgusting----they are a sickening reality of our lives---. I am talking about groups like free masons, Templars---secret societies----.

You wish for too much, Sir. All those societies, or at least those who have the potential to form them, are all already part of the system that you wish to destroy. What is left are the panchayats and the jirgas, and that is all.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

A ruler of a nation like Pakistan---needs to be strong of heart---and not a coward like Mushharaf or Nawaz---. Mussharraf did not have the ballz to enforce the punishment and Nawaz is clueless what to do.

Sums them two jokers nicely ....

As regards Pakistan's problems I think it is more nuanced then what you say. While yes corruption ( money ) is an issue as some goes into terrorism but for me the bigger problem which defines Pakistan and puts comatose in Intensive Care Ward is the primitive mindset. Even Italy has terrible problems with corruption but certainly is not a hell hole like Pakistan.

The real class act in Pakistan is the primitive mindset that is manufactered at industrial scale in the madaris, in the TV mullah's like Dr Amir Liaqat, in the general propensity to go around judging everybody. Pakistani's at the drop of hat pull out of their backsides their own measuring tape for religion and then jump on the pedestal lecturing.

The same mindset that lynches people on the streets because of "blasphemy". The mindset that can be heard coming out of all those mosque loudspeakers. The mindset that allows Lal Masjid back in action spewing hate. The mindset that kills and castigates Ahmedi as if they are vermin. The mindset has half the country animated about opened can of coke in a American airline but ignores the mass genocide of Hazara Shia inside Pakistan.

It is this mindset that has come to occupy the national psyche since 1980s that is the real problem but as Mastan said we have no leader with the "balz" to do anything about it. Every day the madaris are pumping out more infected Pakistani's adding to the millions already infected.

 

[VCheng]

............

It is this mindset that has come to occupy the national psyche since 1980s that is the real problem but as Mastan said we have no leader with the "balz" to do anything about it. Every day the madaris are pumping out more infected Pakistani's adding to the millions already infected.

What can a leader do when the entire nation is as you describe?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

What can a leader do when the entire nation is as you describe?

Agreed. But it was a long, long road to purgatory. No leader along that long road did anything to remedy the situation and now it will take some cataclysmic event bring change.

It is no point in looking to US or the West. The entire West is already in so far as Pakistan is concerned has been consigned to the bin. In fact if the West offers any advice our lot will run in the opposite direction even if it involves falling off the cliff.

The only hope is China. I am hoping that all that massive 'love' our lot have for China can be used to use the Chinese to inspire change. Frankly let us accept that the Chinese are ticking to the same clock as the West and the only differance is epicanthic fold.

However because our lot cannot find any fault with Chinese maybe they might be amenable to learning some sense from the Chinese. Although earlier I was on a thread and one of our lot was preaching to the Chinese so maybe that is expecting too much as well. Still you can hope ...

Chinese academic defends beer festival in Muslim region | Page 4

 

[VCheng]

Agreed. But it was a long, long road to purgatory. No leader along that long road did anything and now it will take some cataclysmic event bring change.

It is no point in looking to US or the West. The entire West is already in so far as Pakistan consigned to the bin. In fact if the West offers any advice our lot will run in the opposite direction even if it involves falling of the cliff.

The only hope is China. I am hoping that all that massive 'love' our lot have for China can be used to use the Chinese to inspire change. Frankly let us accept that the Chinese are ticking to the same clock as the West and the only differance is epicanthic fold.

However because our lot cannot find any fault with Chinese maybe they might be amenable to learning some sense from the Chinese. Although earlier I was on a thread and one of our lot was preaching to the Chinese so maybe that is expecting too much as well. Still you can hope ...

Chinese academic defends beer festival in Muslim region | Page 4

I can guarantee you that thinking of China as the savior will fail just like all the previous mirages. China will always do what is right for China. And there will no cataclysm either, just a painfully slow descent into hell, just as we can observe already happening.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I can guarantee you that thinking of China as the savior will fail just like all the previous mirages. China will always do what is right for China. And there will no cataclysm either, just a painfully slow descent into hell, just as we can observe already happening.

No of course the Chinese are even more Machiavellian then the West. They will not take a step without looking for what's in it for themselves - Just as to clear this there is nothing wrong about this policy of realpolitic. I wish we followed it more robustly then paining over the entire Muslim world and leaving our Pakistan as a orphan.

What I meant is our lot might get inspired by how the Chinese go about doing things and that might rub off on our lot. Sort of like a mentor who has postive influence in their wake ....

Ps. The Chinese are even more secular then the most heathen Westerner ...

 

[VCheng]

............
What I meant is our lot might get inspired by how the Chinese go about doing things and that might rub off on our lot. Sort of like a mentor who has postive influence in their wake ..................

Hang on a minute Sir. You are hoping for this lot to be inspired by the "heathen Chinese" that you said the following words about? Surely you jest!

The real class act in Pakistan is the primitive mindset that is manufactered at industrial scale in the madaris, in the TV mullah's like Dr Amir Liaqat, in the general propensity to go around judging everybody. Pakistani's at the drop of hat pull out of their backsides their own measuring tape for religion and then jump on the pedestal lecturing.

The same mindset that lynches people on the streets because of "blasphemy". The mindset that can be heard coming out of all those mosque loudspeakers. The mindset that allows Lal Masjid back in action spewing hate. The mindset that kills and castigates Ahmedi as if they are vermin. The mindset has half the country animated about opened can of coke in a American airline but ignores the mass genocide of Hazara Shia inside Pakistan.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Hang on a minute Sir. You are hoping for this lot to be inspired by the "heathen Chinese" that you said the following words about? Surely you jest!

We are all allowed sometimes to have flights of fancy .....

 

[VCheng]

We are all allowed sometimes to have flights of fancy .....

Of course. Just know that fights of fancy are just that: "an idea which shows a lot of imagination but which is not practical or useful in real situations".

 

[Solomon2]

Hi,

Solomon2---if the west really really wants Pakistan to succeed and Pakistanis to be a productive partners of this world----they would need to support the cleansing from the top down.

In my last 30 years here in the U S---I have been back home in 2007---2014---2015.

In 2014 my brother in law tells me that a real honest Commissioner equivalent of the city gets close to 1 billion rupees in bribe a year minimum----. This person does not ask for bribes---he wants to work honest---contractors just show up with bags of money---and this guy does a good and honest job for the city---it is for a city like the size of Multan. He does such a good job that people are in praise of his services even after he has been gone for a 4 years----they cared less about the bribe----they saw the city change for good in front of their eyes.

Now this excludes the bribes and payola that federal and local ministers are getting.

When I posted this amount here last year---many a posters ridiculed me----but now that they heard what is going on in Karachi---is simply mind blowing---and my figure is miniscule to that.

The plunder in Karachi is in the tune of 250 billion rupees and may be close to 500 billion rupees a year.

There are two major problems we have----a lack of justice and a blind eye to corruption. In order for these two to be enforced----heads need to roll---a rather a large number of heads----.

Now you may know that all this money that is being plundered---some of it is also being used for funding terrorism as well---.

And all this talk of talibanization and shariah infusion---all the people are looking for is quick justice and equality---because when they look back 1400 years ago---shariah gave then quick justice and there was equality and no corruption----.

A ruler of a nation like Pakistan---needs to be strong of heart---and not a coward like Mushharaf or Nawaz---. Mussharraf did not have the ballz to enforce the punishment and Nawaz is clueless what to do.

The only thing that can be started at grass roots is private courts amongst citizens---that can pass judgements on judges and politicians and sentence them to death in absentia and carry out the punishment in real.

Wow. This really makes me think....you might want to study South Korea's history here, they've reduced corruption considerably in less than two generations. Here's one paper on it, which argues that for democracies "strong institutions" make the difference: Political Corruption in New Democracies: A Comparative Study of Indonesia and South Korea.

 

[anant_s]

How about investing in real education. Kids attending madrasah have no future period.

Sir, i have a question here (i must mention beforehand that i know little about teaching methodology of madrasah).
Leaving aside the skill development of student, does the system help anyone politically in the society, when the students come out of the school being taught to think in a particular manner?

 

[VCheng]

Have you considered immigrating to Pakistan and entering politics there yourself?

I couldn't even win an election here on PDF let alone the dirty world of manipulated politics in Pakistan.

 

[VCheng]

Part 2 of this series here:

Eight Good People