Where is Islam in Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

Tariq Mullahs opposed Pakistan , they never rallied behind Quaid infact they called him a traitor etc for eg JI's moudodi !!

assalam alaikum

See u ppl call for democracy and freedom of specah etc but when ppl demonstrate their will u can't digest it. Why dont u appreciate the collective wisdom of the masses when they rallied behind Qaid instead of mullahs for the creation of pakistan and now when they rallied behind the mullahs on the issue of toheen e risalat law etc.?
U call them bigoted supporterst, jahils etc

TARIQ

 

[Myth_buster_1]

NON Pakistanis please refrain from participating in this thread. I have requested Indians and they have stayed away from this thread.
Only for Pakistanis.
Thank you.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

No. He was the ultimate antithesis of the mullah. His message was one that stressed man's direct relationship with God. He did not allow or condone firqawariat. And he did not pressurize people to convert, much less use force against them to further "religion".

But here you generalize that all "Mullahs" are somehow promoting sectarianism or pressurizing people to convert? Cmon now Tech... This is going overboard now...

As for furthering "religion"... I wont say "religion" but he did initiate Jihad to expand the Islamic State... The Muslim Army simultaneously struck Persia and Rome (destroyed the parsi army and government in the process)... What do you have to say to that?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

so which one is the true Islam wahabi , salafi , sufi ,shia ,sunni , takfiri , agha khani , bohri ,ismaili ...... or the remaining 63 .... ??

Thats your nice excuse of not practicing Islam.
sunni

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Pakistan Christian Post

20 million Pakistani Christians say “NO” to Election 2008 under Joint Electorate and demand Dual Voting right with Separate Electorate. Nazir S Bhatti

Under the Caliphate you will have your own representatives... I agree with your stance...

 

[Jigs]

Islam is not just about a practice that should be done at home only.

I hope this helps.

Sure. That is why there are places to facilitate ones religious beliefs. They are churches, Mosques etc. Many countries have them (Numbers depending on how many Christians or Muslims are in the specific country)

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Under the Caliphate you will have your own representatives... I agree with your stance...

So the representatives will be 'elected', and will in turn 'elect' the Caliph?

Is that what you are saying?

How is this different from 'democracy'?

And no, I have not seen your video since too many have been posted. I would prefer that posters outline the arguments made in a video in a post, so if you would do that I would be glad to respond to them.

---------- Post added at 09:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 AM ----------

Thats your nice excuse of not practicing Islam.
sunni

Sunni what?

 

[T-Faz]

Lets analyze this support found for the creation of an Islamic state in a nation where many such Islamic makeovers have brought nothing but mere man made laws that have invalidated the teaching of Islam.

Being engaged in building a modern society where Islamic ideals are meant to persist. How can the fusion or effectiveness of this state be of any real benefit? if at all?

The differences between theory and practice, between ideal and historical development, between religion and state is not so straightforward as implied.

By stating that 'we' want an Islamic state, what measures are to be taken and what will be the immediate effects of this transition are never answered.

By virtue of being 'Islamic', we negate the actual teachings of Islam and here after religion has become a mere tool for worldly gains.

The work done by a Muslim becomes Islamic not by virtue of attaining a certain Muslim goal i.e. Islamic State, but by the virtue of aiming at it.

Whan and where has a Musalman aimed at the virtue of aiming at a tolerant, peaceful and equal state.

 

[hammyy2k]

Sure. That is why there are places to facilitate ones religious beliefs. They are churches, Mosques etc. Many countries have them (Numbers depending on how many Christians or Muslims are in the specific country)

turkish guy by home he means closed spaces and by this he means our religion is to be practiced in the open..

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Depends on the Muslim ....

Not just how they view their faith, but whether they interpret their faith to mean that religions should be kept out of government, and should be a private matter.

Muslims possess diverse views on the role of religion in public life - some want it to govern everyday life through government, whereas others do not, and some want a combination i.e laws in consonance with Islamic teachings, but at the same time a State that is democratic an allows equal rights and freedom to people of all faiths and races.

Pakistan was never claimed to be 'made in the name of Islam', it was 'made in the name of Muslims', and there is a huge difference between the two.

Sir now you are repeating same stuff over again which has been already answered.

Islam is not a personal practice. And neither it should be forced upon someone.

“Help your brother, be he a wrong-doer or wronged”. Thereupon a man exclaimed, “O Messenger of Allah! I may help if he is wronged, but how could I help a wrongdoer?” The Prophet answered, “You must prevent him from doing wrong: that will be your help to him”.
a. In this hadith, who is being referred to as ‘your brother’?
'Your brother' is one's fellow Muslim, a brother by virtue of one's faith.


b. When can you consider someone to be wronged and how can you help your brother who is wronged?
When a fellow Muslim becomes a victim of injustice, he is wronged and he needs the help and support from his fellow Muslims. One can help him by raising one’s voice and bringing justice to his case.


c. What does the Prophet mean by ‘Helping a wrongdoer’? Why did the Prophet say this?
Helping a wrongdoer is to prevent him/her from doing wrong. When you stop someone from doing wrong, you in fact prevent crimes being committed in the society. You help the society in the larger interest.


The Holy Quran:
"Let there arise out of you a group of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining Al-Ma'ruf (the good) and forbidding Al-Munkar (the evil). And it is they who are successful." (3:104)

Prophet [sallallahu alayhe wa sallam (SAWS)] said: "If people see Munkar (something forbidden) without attempting to stop it, all of them are liable to an immediate punishment from Allah." (Bukhari)

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

There will obviously be more applicants than positions in such a ministry, so what will the criteria for selecting people be? Whoever has the best academic qualifications? And who makes that selection, and who selects those making the selection?

Sir jee, it will be similar to the selection of armed forces. A board that makes the selection. They board will itself be a part of Ministry.

In addition, are you arguing that people merely be given positions in government because of their 'education'? Education does not mean someone is a good administrator or free of flaws and corruption.

If you have some machine to judge if someone is holy or evil then tell me. Sir, there is no way to tell that someone is a good admin or not. Then why do you always presume that educated people are evil. We need educated people who run the government

A government is theoretically (In my book) designed to govern the people in a nation in the most equitable manner possible and create conditions for economic prosperity and growth. The best judge of a government's performance are therefore those that government is designed to serve - the people of a nation, since they are the ones most affected by the actions of government.

The people selected in the Ministry will obviously not fall from sky Sir. They will be from the public. If you think democracy gives everyone a chance then look at Pakistan. When father dies after being PM, his daughter comes. When that daughter dies, his husband comes. . and now his son is waiting for becoming PM. .

So the need is for educating people of their rights and responsibilities with respect to electing their representatives, so they can make informed decisions, and not to take away their right to elect their government, and merely have it imposed upon them by a council or coterie that might very well be power hungry and corrupt, and has no checks or balances on it.

That is why you need to pay attention to Hazrat Ali (R.A)'s example. In this system even the Khalifa can be dragged to the court by a common person.

Before the Khalifa's selection all his assets are made known to everyone and after his tenure if his assets are greater, he is held accountable. . .

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

assalam alaikum

Which islam will be wahabi , takfiri etc these r new terms we didnot have these terms good or bad muslims were under khilafah till early 1900's and nobody said which islam.

TARIQ

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Wrong.
Islamic system is flawless if fallowed properly i.e implementing the teachings of Islam in our life.
Any system not originated from Islam is not flawless.

The Islamic system (which you have yet to provide details about, and so at this point is a myth) will function optimally (IIRC according to you) when an overwhelming majority of Muslims are 'true Muslims'.

My point was that if an overwhelming majority of people practice 'true Islam', then society will be largely free of corruption, greed, crime etc. and it won't really matter what system of government we have, since the majority of those running government will also be 'free of corruption, crime, greed etc.'.

Unnecessary comment sir.

Why? How do you intend on removing sin and flaws from mankind? You cannot force someone to have faith.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Hello,

With all the respect the ambiguity is in the mind of few secularists or some haters of islam otherwise the ummah is united on many issues since the times of sahabah

Regards

TARIQ

This is basically an excuse for not following Islam... its as simple as that...

because if you look at it... There are more than TWO HUNDRED differences in the Fiqh of different schools about how to pray Nimaz... but never has anyone dared state that Nimaz is not Fard... By the secularists logic, we should not even pray now??

Let us not get dragged into this meaningless discussion of differences (all of which are valid as long as they have reference in the Quran and Hadith)... As for those self concocted ideas that have no basis in the text, we obviously reject it... Its as simple as that and if someone does not want to understand this why bother trying?

These secularists have destroyed Pakistan and the Islamist who sit with them in the Parliament are equally bad...

Time for a new system and new leaders!!!

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

So the representatives will be 'elected', and will in turn 'elect' the Caliph?

Is that what you are saying?

How is this different from 'democracy'?

And no, I have not seen your video since too many have been posted. I would prefer that posters outline the arguments made in a video in a post, so if you would do that I would be glad to respond to them.

---------- Post added at 09:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 AM ----------



Sunni what?

Sir you are asking for a very detailed description of how the Islamic State is setup and functions... It would be beyond the scope of the thread... Can you understand my frustration here that although I have put up material about it in more than one step, no one really bothers looking at it with patience... Is it my fault then that I feel people are not serious to look at my presentation?

I think hardly ten people have seen this video and I have posted it at least five times on the forum... Khair... in private then...

I would owe you one if you watch it... JazakAllah Khair