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Where is head money paid to you for Aafia? - Caller Asks Musharraf

There is something really wrong with this forum...

Either it is run by children who have yet to get mature...

Or it is run by the likes of those who are named Jannat Begum but start calling themselves Janet when they come to a western country... i.e the likes of Busharaf and co

.......

If someone is guilty of terrorism, they should NOT be tortured... rather taken to court and tried and punished... This is how civilized people behave...

Dont get me wrong here Mr Tech... but I am posting here only to draw your attention to this... One does not become an animal when dealing with an animal... Rise above your enemies... We are not Americans who consider Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo fair games... We are not Commies who would roll over their tanks over Afghans and believed themselves to be just a more evolved apes... For God sake have a bit of decency and consider the possiblity that torturing someone and raping someone is wrong no matter what they might have done...

man these guys will ban u if he dont like ur opinion on something, so its better not to get confronted, this forum has reputation for banning people who say america should mind its own business and people get promoted for saying i love america[mod edit]
 
man these guys will ban u if he dont like ur opinion on something, so its better not to get confronted, this forum has reputation for banning people who say america should mind its own business and people get promoted for saying i love american arse and want to lick them..
Lol ......Promotion is on post base....

No one get banned on USA bashing.....Most of us do it.....People get banned on this Arse, Lick, Testical kind of talk....

Have good point and can defend it with reasonable statements and arguments No one will ban you. But if it all comes to if a car stops in the middle of the road and you start cursing USA Infidels then surely.....You are going to Ban-istan.
 
Again, Dr. Aafia's husband goes into great details about the radical views and activities of Dr. Aafia. Please look that up.
And, no, 'torture' cannot be justified on anyone--least of all on a woman. And yet we have seen that Burka-clad women do blow themselves up trying to kill innocent people. So they too can be the 'mobile missiles' Musharraf referred to.

I also find it interesting that many Jihadi media try to show a smiling Aafia with her graduation-gown in Boston, juxtaposed with her photo after the 'torture' (her former husband's account explains that photo too). The propaganda line is obvious: A young, bright, innocent, educated Pakistani woman tortured by the Kafir Americans for no reasons. That is appealing to the nationalists of Pakistan.

BUT...I still don't claim to know the truth. It is possible that some CIA agents screwed up. But, if her husband's narrative even has 10% truth about her radicalization, then she is very likely another jihadi-psycho.
 
man these guys will ban u if he dont like ur opinion on something, so its better not to get confronted, this forum has reputation for banning people who say america should mind its own business and people get promoted for saying i love america[mod edit]

nobody will ban you.
 
The case of Dr Aafia is unique in a sense that it can be exploited by the religious right to fullest extent.

Her being a women with kids and equipped with impressive academic credentials, doubt can always be created in regards to her link with terrorists and her radical mindset. The mystery surrounding her case from the get go made way for theories and conspiracies to emerge. If information about her was available from the beginning, the religious right would not have been able to exploit her case as they have and continue to do so.

Now to Aafia herself and what I have gathered. Her paternal family is educated and well to do, they had links with Islamic parties and seem to be a very cunning and clever lot. Aafia herself was a known extremist from the views gathered on her, the charity company she created which was used by terrorist groups is proof enough of her hand in terrorism.

What happened to her and her children should not have happened in retrospect but much information on her is still clouded in mystery. Her links with intelligence agencies is something that is highly possible and thus the secrecy on the part of various governments. She fled US in a hurry, the reasoning of which remains unclear. Her ex-husband portrayed her to be a religious zealot, which from the looks of her family she definitely is.

Because of certain aspects remaining secret, the case would linger on in this manner where the religious groups would exploit it for support. Our populace is easily manipulated and with such terms as 'daughter of Pakistan', many can be riled up.

As pointed earlier, extraditions like this begin when Aimal Kansi was captured by a trap set up for him. His father was an informant for CIA and he was later killed because of this reason. If Musharaffs opponents can raise this issue, he can certainly raise the issue of Kansi, but he has more class and Kansi was not the 'daughter of Pakistan'.
 
Why that much focus on only one woman? is it because America is involed? do these right wing media and guys(as some people say it here) care about the many many other women who are raped, honour killing, domestic abuse, inequality etc on daily basis in pakistan and other muslim countries?
 
Afia supported Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda believes in no courts or justice or anything remotely civilized, for that matter. They believe in strapping explosives to kids and blowing them up in crowded places. It is strange that arrested terrorists expect so much humanity, justice and fair treatment. I understand that this is what distinguishes civilization from the likes of the Salafi/Wahabist lot (Al Qaeda, Sipahe Sahaba and all the other degenerates) but it is amusing to witness, nonetheless.

As for Afia being "daughter of the east", my #@# foot. She is a crazed, terrorist sympathizer (if not a terrorist herself, or an intelligence double agent inimical to Pakistan at best) who has caused Pakistan much anguish and many problems. The issue of her arrest was picked up by certain vested interests as a way to attack Musharraf, whereas ironically, her mother is on record as having written a letter praising Musharraf and expressing full support for him when he was in power.

In the past 5 pages of comments there have been some fairly broad mischaracterizations of people who believe Afia is not worth 1/10000th the attention she is getting. One "worthy" even suggested that the Afia nonissue is more important than the plight of the flood affectees. The presence of such mindless idiocy (a charitable characterization) tells us there is still much work to be done.

We have to build a society in which these radical types cannot exist any more. The deceiving mullahs need to be chucked into the Arabian sea, from Zakir Naik all the way to the village idiot in Jhang in the employ of the SSP. All this self-styled holier-than-thou salafist muck needs to be cleaned out completely. I am looking forward to the return of Musharraf or a like minded man of courage who will do to all the right wing Madrassahs what was done to the Lal Masjid (albeit too late) and who will do to all the danda carrying, "sons" & "daughters" that worship at the altar of violence and mayhem, what has been their due for a long time.

The only thing unfortunate about the Afia episode is that it was kept under wraps initially. They should have come out and exposed her for what she was day one and prevented the jacka$$ right wing urdu press in our country from hijacking the issue. I believe part of this is due to the "she is a woman" syndrome that is being exploited by Taliban, Al Qaeda and other terorrists fully. Why else would that ba$tard red mosque mullah try to save his a$$ in a burqa?

And while we're on that subject, the only thing unfortunate about the Lal Masjid was that the operation was delayed and the lives of our brave and courageous SSGs were wasted to give these satanic hellraisers another chance. The Burqa clad mullah should have been shot on sight. As should the militant wife of that other freak (Rashid) who has now been shipped straight to hell courtesy Zarrar Company. She is still barking like the hatred spewing terrorist animal that she is. And the government pursues a hands-off policy because, "she is a woman". Bloody nonsense. She can be a woman and brainwash thousands of girls into carrying dandas, burning shops, abducting people and threatening violence against the Armed Forces and citizens of Pakistan? She can stick the danda you know where.


You have been granted power and you misuse your powers TechLahore, to suit your purposes,your motives, your agendas.
Your country and this world is not made up of people all like you. Why do you wish for all to conform to your world view.

Vide the powers vested on you, you have deleted my posts and many a posts of others and you say you feel insulted -reread your post and see what others may feel. And you preach violence and hate in a society that is already torn apart. And you cant accept that an injustice has been done to one of your own - is it that only you make sense and others don't?
Are these the standards that a Moderator of an International Forum should aspire to?

Ban me now if you must - because I shall keep getting in your way - a way that I see as far removed from the ideal.
 
You have been granted power and you misuse your powers TechLahore, to suit your purposes,your motives, your agendas.
Your country and this world is not made up of people all like you. Why do you wish for all to conform to your world view.

Vide the powers vested on you, you have deleted my posts and many a posts of others and you say you feel insulted -reread your post and see what others may feel. And you preach violence and hate in a society that is already torn apart. And you cant accept that an injustice has been done to one of your own - is it that only you make sense and others don't?
Are these the standards that a Moderator of an International Forum should aspire to?

Ban me now if you must - because I shall keep getting in your way - a way that I see as far removed from the ideal.

Everyone is given the opportunity in this forum to present their views on the topic being discussed. Certainly you will find that opposing point of views exist and in a civil debate, one is intended to present their point rather than personally attack the opposing person. You indulged in the latter from your very first few posts in this thread. Your post contained personal insults aimed at someone who you did not agree with. Rather than being rational, you continue to emotionally attack a respected moderator of this website.

The points TechLahore mentioned are valid and are being repeated by a number of people in our country. Like you said that it is torn apart, it is this way only because of the religious right which has deliberately caused differences between communities to occur and spread profoundly.

He is entitled to his view as you are yours, but you are not allowed to take swipes at other members just because you disagree with them.

There is every reason to ban you but it has not happened only because we allow all and one to present their point of view. If you go about attacking others rather than debate in civil manner, you will be banned.
 
^^^ I hate to think you're blind as a bat not to see where the personal swipes have started.
Its right there in front of you, in his post, the bolded part on the top.


But silly me, I expect you to do justice where you do not extend the same to your own people, Dr Aafia.
 
^^^ I hate to think you're blind as a bat not to see where the personal swipes have started.
Its right there in front of you, in his post, the bolded part on the top.

But silly me, I expect you to do justice where you do not extend the same to your own people, Dr Aafia.

The bolder parts are not personal swipes against any particular members of this forum. Blind as a bat indeed.

It's silly to presume that we can extend help to someone who resided in another country and was a naturalised citizen of that state. It's better for us to extend help to innocents citizens or our nation who so greatly require our help then pay millions for a women who left her nation long ago only to harm the country that she went to live in.

If one is so inclined to consider a few words against terrorist mullahs who challenge the state as personal swipes, then it surely speaks a lot.
 
^^^ I hate to think you're blind as a bat not to see where the personal swipes have started.
Its right there in front of you, in his post, the bolded part on the top.


But silly me, I expect you to do justice where you do not extend the same to your own people, Dr Aafia.

Dispense with the drama. You want to "get in my way", you go on right ahead. With each response we will develop clarity regarding what end of the spectrum you support. Thus far, I see you as a terrorist sympathizer. Plain and simple.

As for the "personal swipes", what you bolded were fairly honest and conservatively worded descriptions of terrorists. If you have a problem with that then please be prepared to suffer further as you continue your participation here. I hope these $@#%@#ing terrorists who have killed thousands of innocent Pakistanis, and all the ba$tards who support them, speak up for them and defend them, meet a fate far worse than their victims have met. There is no room in the modern world, and certainly not in Pakistan, for terrorism or its defence.

As for Afia being "my own people", for the last time, she is an American citizen captured in Afghanistan. Furthermore, she is a terrorist sympathizer. So the fact that she was born in Pakistan means nothing. A terrorist is a terrorist. Justice, in the case of terror supporters, would be throwing them in a dungeon until they expire. So yes, I hope they all get their due times two.
 
The bolder parts are not personal swipes against any particular members of this forum. Blind as a bat indeed.

It's silly to presume that we can extend help to someone who resided in another country and was a naturalised citizen of that state. It's better for us to extend help to innocents citizens or our nation who so greatly require our help then pay millions for a women who left her nation long ago only to harm the country that she went to live in.

If one is so inclined to consider a few words against terrorist mullahs who challenge the state as personal swipes, then it surely speaks a lot.
One "worthy" even suggested that the Afia nonissue is more important than the plight of the flood affectees. The presence of such mindless idiocy (a charitable characterization)

This unworthy is me T-Faz.
This has gone on too long - I am not into explaining my position anymore.

Link:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...afia-caller-asks-musharraf-3.html#post1135579
 
And you feel no shame in suggesting that Afia is more important than 20 million flood affectees? You are actually defending yourself for *THIS*???
 
One "worthy" even suggested that the Afia nonissue is more important than the plight of the flood affectees. The presence of such mindless idiocy (a charitable characterization)

This unworthy is me T-Faz.
This has gone on too long - I am not into explaining my position anymore.

Link:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...afia-caller-asks-musharraf-3.html#post1135579

How can the plight of millions of innocent sufferers be equivalent to one women who got into the mess that she herself had initiated.

Similarly why should Musharraf address the issue of an American citizen being captured in another country as if he had personally captured or tortured her.

You have to expect such a reaction when such statements are made. This case has been unnecessarily given coverage that takes the focus away from real topics and we are sick and tired of extremists destroying our country.
 
Condemned By Their Silence

By Yvonne Ridley

September 21, 2010 ..There are literally millions of people across the world who are now involved in the intriguing case of Dr Aafia Siddiqui and they fall in to several categories.

The first is a huge army of ordinary people of faith and no faith who represent many different nationalities and their aim is to see justice and fair play delivered to Aafia.

The second is a small, but on the surface of it, more powerful group of individuals who are ruthlessly ambitious; prepared to manipulate the truth and openly lie to elevate their own position to the detriment of others and Aafia in particular.

These are numerous in the Pakistan government, past and present, as well as the last two US administrations and includes the dark forces at play which support them as well as the coterie of smooth-talking diplomats and ambassadors who tread the corridors of power.

Then there are the others – perhaps the most despicable group of all who are what I call fence sitters and spectators. The great Irish philosopher Edmund Burke once said that evil would only triumph if good people sat back and did nothing and he was right.

With few exceptions the larger Muslim organizations have remained uncharacteristically quiet about Aafia’s case.

Why have they been muzzled? Correction. Why have they allowed themselves to be muzzled? To their eternal shame they have remained silent about the plight of Dr Aafia Siddiqui because they have been duped by an officially-sanctioned unofficial whispering campaign.

The rule is simple brothers (and sisters), comrades, friends and campaigners. If something is wrong it is wrong, entirely wrong and in Aafia’s case there is something wrong about the kidnap, torture and rendition of a brilliant academic and her three children.

The fence sitters in the US are a disgrace. Men without courage or backbone are more to be pitied, I suppose as cowardice is a dreadful affliction in the battlefield that is life.

A yellow streak down the spine makes people look the other way, blinkers their vision and forces them to adopt an Ostrich position. This makes it all the more easy for hate preachers like Pastor Jones in Florida to emerge and threaten to burn the Holy Qur’an.

But Edmund Clarke was right when he said evil will triumph if good people sit back and do nothing. The leaders of the organizations I’ve mentioned are good people but they are frightened and I pray that one day they will get the courage they so desperately need to stand up and be counted.

And in these troubled times it does take courage to stand up against an arrogant, bullying, intimidating political machine which brought words like kidnap, torture, rendition, water-boarding and extra-judicial killings in to daily use.


Just a few hours remain before the resumption of a trial in a New York court which is being presided over by Judge Richard Berman. To his eternal shame he is one who has remained silent about the manner and style with which Dr Aafia Siddiqui was presented in his court.

How the hell can a Pakistani citizen who allegedly committed a crime in Afghanistan be tried in his court without an official extradition procedure at the very least?

Why did he not demand that the paperwork was at least in order? He has presided over a mis-trial from the outset.

While he deemed the defendant mentally fit to stand trial but not mentally capable of determining her own legal team. Whenever Dr Aafia Siddiqui – a brilliant neuro scientist bordering on genius by the way – attempted to sack her lawyers he refused her request saying she wasn’t mentally fit to make the decision. You can’t have it both ways, Your Honour.



Judge Berman has alas, so far, remained silent about the private – behind closed door meetings – he has had with the Pakistan Ambassador Hossein Haqqani. Another good reason for a mistrial if only the legal team had the backbone to challenge the judge in his court.

The trouble is so-called ‘Dream Team’ lawyers Charlie Swift and Linda Moreno’s very lucrative two million dollar trial was being paid for by the Pakistan Government, making Mr Haqqani the overall client. Hmm, how does that one work when the Pakistan government colluded in the first place with the US intelligence agencies to kidnap Dr Aafia Siddiqui and her three children from the streets of Karachi in March 2003? Another reason to declare a mis-trial.

And what of the ubiquitous Mr Haqqani a CIA asset? He’s not a career diplomat. In fact he holds US citizenship or has aspirations to making him a very peculiar choice as Pakistan’s man in Washington. Once his foray into the world of diplomacy comes to an end he’ll resume his career as a lecturer in America, something his US controllers remind him on a regular basis.

His Excellency has certainly been a busy little bee with regards Dr Aafia’s case … briefing some of my colleagues in the western media telling them ‘off-the-record’ what a bad woman she is!

Just recently his cover was blown when he refused the very excellent female politician Cynthia McKinney a visa to Pakistan. Cynthia was part of an international delegation due to travel to Islamabad to raise concerns about the case with the government there.

Mr Haqqani, who thinks nothing of giving visas to Blackwater guns-for-hire and mercenaries heading to the fresh killing fields of Pakistan saw fit to stop the former US Congress woman from travelling there.


He squirmed and wriggled after being hoisted by his own petard, but like a worm impaled firmly on a fishhook of his own making, he could not escape the humiliating exposure of his duplicitous behaviour.

If he has been briefing against Dr Aafia Siddiqui all this time, one can only imagine what nonsense he filled in Judge Richard Berman’s head during their private meetings. In any other country this sort of revelation would be a career wrecker for both men, but justice is the US is a strange beast.

(Yes, this is a serious allegation to make and I would have asked the judge personally, but he has banned me from using his fax and phone! Hilarious really, when you consider he has no legal jurisdiction in London, where I live. Obviously he thinks if he can hold a trial on a crime allegedly committed in Afghanistan, he can have me renditioned and charged with contempt of court.)

But let’s get back to Dr Aafia’s case which has nothing to do with justice and everything to do with protecting the names and reputations of a collective of men and women in the US and Pakistan – from presidents past and present to lesser politicians and their craven diplomats.

And if it means sacrificing one Dr Aafia Siddiqui on the fire of their burning ambitions then these ruthless people have shown they are more than capable of doing it.

What you have to decide now is if you are a fence sitter or a fighter for justice.

Doing the right thing isn’t always easy but there is a growing army of ordinary people out there who will continue to campaign for justice for Aafia.

We will not be silent – nor will we throw in the towel after Thursday.

That is when our campaigning will really begin.

In the interests of justice, commonsense and decency let all concerned bring an end to this farce now and reunite this innocent mother with her family.
 
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