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When Islamic atheism thrived

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hi
oopsey my bad! but no one is targeting you rather the reality is other way around! anyways fun
 
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hi^^
How true you are not targeting one rather all of us
 
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some people here have been doubting the validity & knowledge of Al-Razi where as a little bit of research will tell them that he was in no way an ordinary thinker, he has contributions in many fields....

- Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi


quoting the relevant part here:

Razi wrote three books dealing with religion; they were: The Prophets' Fraudulent Tricks (مخارق الانبياء), The Stratagems of Those Who Claim to Be Prophets (حيل المتنبيين), and On the Refutation of Revealed Religions (نقض الادیان). He offered harsh criticism concerning religions, in particular those religions that claim to have been revealed by prophetic experiences. Razi asserted that "[God] should not set some individuals over others, and there should be between them neither rivalry nor disagreement which would bring them to perdition." He argued,

"On what ground do you deem it necessary that God should single out certain individuals [by giving them prophecy], that he should set them up above other people, that he should appoint them to be the people's guides, and make people dependent upon them?"​

Concerning the link between violence and religion, Razi expressed that God must have known, considering the many disagreements between different religions, that "there would be a universal disaster and they would perish in the mutual hostilities and fighting. Indeed, many people have perished in this way, as we can see."

He was also critical of the lack of interest among religious adherents in the rational analysis of their beliefs, and the violent reaction which takes its place:

"If the people of this religion are asked about the proof for the soundness of their religion, they flare up, get angry and spill the blood of whoever confronts them with this question. They forbid rational speculation, and strive to kill their adversaries. This is why truth became thoroughly silenced and concealed."

Al-Razi believed that common people had originally been duped into belief by religious authority figures and by the status quo. He believed that these authority figures were able to continually deceive the common people "as a result of [religious people] being long accustomed to their religious denomination, as days passed and it became a habit. Because they were deluded by the beards of the goats, who sit in ranks in their councils, straining their throats in recounting lies, senseless myths and "so-and-so told us in the name of so-and-so..."

He believed that the existence of a large variety of religions was, in itself, evidence that they were all man made, saying, "Jesus claimed that he is the son of God, while Moses claimed that He had no son, and Muhammad claimed that he [Jesus] was created like the rest of humanity." and "Mani and Zoroaster contradicted Moses, Jesus and Muhammad regarding the Eternal One, the coming into being of the world, and the reasons for the [existence] of good and evil." In relation to the Hebrew's God asking of sacrifices, he said that "This sounds like the words of the needy rather than of the Laudable Self-sufficient One."

On the Qur'an, Razi said:

"You claim that the evidentiary miracle is present and available, namely, the Koran. You say: "Whoever denies it, let him produce a similar one." Indeed, we shall produce a thousand similar, from the works of rhetoricians, eloquent speakers and valiant poets, which are more appropriately phrased and state the issues more succinctly. They convey the meaning better and their rhymed prose is in better meter. ... By God what you say astonishes us! You are talking about a work which recounts ancient myths, and which at the same time is full of contradictions and does not contain any useful information or explanation. Then you say: "Produce something like it"?!"​
 
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Razis had his own views on religion and philosophy, but there were others who followed a more orthodox narrative, and hence critisized razis:

Criticism
Al-Razi's religious and philosophical views were later criticized by Persian Islamic philosophers such as Abu Rayhan Biruni and Avicenna in the early 11th century. Biruni in particular wrote a short Risala treatise dealing with al-Razi, criticizing him for his sympathy with Manichaeism,[23] his Hermetical writings, his religious and philosophical views,[24] for refusing to mathematize physics, and his active opposition to mathematics.[25] Avicenna, who was himself a physician and philosopher, also criticized al-Razi.[26] During a debate with Biruni, Avicenna stated:

"Or from Muhammad ibn Zakariyyab al-Razi, who meddles in metaphysics and exceeds his competence. He should have remained confined to surgery and to urine and stool testing—indeed he exposed himself and showed his ignorance in these matters."
 
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In my humble opinion, the name of the article itself is wrong. One cannot use the words Islam and Atheism together. They are on opposite sides of the spectrum. A muslim cannot be an atheist, hence, "Islamic atheism" is a wrong terminology.,

What is Islamic atheism?......is a bit like democratic dictatorship,makes no sense.

Islamic Atheism...?:blink::blink:

"Islamic atheism" is a fallacious word and self-negating but by using "Islamic atheism" the author is trying to refer to more liberal views about theistic philosophy, the metaphysics of existence and the existence of a deity among philosophers rather than atheism itself.
 
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the matter of fact is that every one is here to question the validity & no one wants to even think about it

there is not even a single which is maligning Islam in any way, its only asking questions & wants the human mind to think but unfortunately people have kinda a monstrous view of God in their minds & they think that even thinking about it will take them to hell though i also think that 'Islamic Atheism' is a bit harsh term, but anyways writer used it

the works of AL-Razi etc were created after extensive research & study of religion, there were not some hookers who went on a rampage to rant & that too in days when there was literally no concept of atheism & questioning the validity of Religion can lead to execution but they were not declared apostates or infidels, this also proves the locks Muslims have decided to put on their minds on modern era(something what writer is trying to say but no one talked about it)


but whats the need for writing this all, they don't want to read it, anything which is contradicting & challenging their views is a 'fool's house' :disagree:


1. as for so called 'extensive research', works of Imam Maliki, Hanfi, Shaafi and many others was extensive research as well, did you ever bother reading em?

2. there is no islamic astheism, if you are a muslim, you have to believe in Allah, his prophets, the books, existence of angles and day of judgement... if one doesnt believe or has doubts about these, he can be anything else but a muslim

3. you are wrong atheism is as old as the concept of religion itself, say when someone would have thought there is a God, there must be someone saying that No it got done itself

4. your questions have been answered, plus these things are available on net it took me 15 secs to find an answer, so please bother yourself to a lil googling.

5. basic of every religion is 'faith', its just like being in the army, you are a private or corporal, and you get orders, you dont go up to the commander and demand an explanation as you dont agree with the orders... you have to obey em!!! some can be understood easily some requires time to be cleared upon you... even i can come up with questions, why is the world round? why did God create gravity? why cant i fly? etc etc its not about questioning but understand the others!!!

6. does the writer believe in God? yes but not the Prophet (pbuh) as according to him (Naozobillah) Prophets can make mistakes.. right? who told him about the God, the Prophet, but if Prophet can make mistakes he can make a mistake in telling you about God as well, cant he? so you only are left with two choices either believe in God and his Prophet (pbuh) or dont believe in God at all!!
 
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the most hilarious thing is hindus who believe in rats god and monkey gods like hanuman are thanking the post..

Concentrate on arguing with emo girl factually rather than trolling bringing in Hinduism into it..it is our personal faith... not for u to decide whom to worship or not.
 
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Concentrate on arguing with emo girl factually rather than trolling bringing in Hinduism into it..it is our personal faith... not for u to decide whom to worship or not.
hi
you are right its your personal faith. but the belief in existence of God is also the personal faith of billions of Muslims, Christians & Jews. who have to face the so called factual knowledge of miss Emo Girl
 
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hi
you are right its your personal faith. but the belief in existence of God is also the personal faith of billions of Muslims, Christians & Jews. who have to face the so called factual knowledge of miss Emo Girl
shhe is raising the same old points that pure atheists have been raising for ages, they have been answered over n over again but if you are not willing to understand it cant be pushed into your mind!!!
 
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Emo has started a very interesting thread. I congratulate you for daring to post such messages in face of expected and harsh criticism. I wish you continue exercising your right of freedom of expression.
Unfortunately, most of the respondents missed the point and instead focused on the title. The basic thing in your posts is the concept of free thinking but unfortunately you can rarely find it these days.
I appreciate your effort...
Regards
 
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"Islamic atheism" is a fallacious word and self-negating but by using "Islamic atheism" the author is trying to refer to more liberal views about theistic philosophy, the metaphysics of existence and the existence of a deity among philosophers rather than atheism itself.

If that were the case, then the author should have written "islamic Liberalism" or free-thinking in islam or whatever. The point being that the title of the article is mis-leading for all and unjustified for a few.

But we are discussing a minor point. The truth is that the author has raised a valid point, free-thinking is discouraged in our society and anyone who questions anything is either labelled a "munafiq" or worse, a "Kaafir".

This attitude we must change, and we should not be afraid of asking questions, and not be afraid of other people asking them too. It is basic human nature and Islam encourages it.

regards,
 
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