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When did the number of Jews murdered by the Nazis become well known at 6 million?

For those like @Hassan Al-Somal claim that they have no opinion whether the Holocaust occured, while at the same time show extremism hatred against Jews.

When did the number of Jews murdered by the Nazis become well known at 6 million?



Contrary to popular belief this has nothing to do with Nazi records. There is this “half-myth” that floats around that the Nazis were great record keepers and thanks to these records we can accurately identify the number of Jews who were murdered in the Holocaust. This is inaccurate.

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To be clear the Nazis were great record keepers when they wanted to be. When it came to government administration, military accounting, and economic output the Nazis kept fantastic records. Moreover, many Nazi Generals survived the war and wrote extensively about their experiences before and during the war.

When it comes to the Holocaust we do have source documents that prove a lot and these documents are beyond valuable. They are exceedingly rare though and there isn’t a master list or anything like that. There is a good reason for this though.

As WW2 got going Hitler personally ordered the extermination of disabled persons in the infamous “Aktion T4”. This included a signed order from Hitler to identify, round up, and exterminate all disabled persons. There was an immediate response from the German people and the international community. So Hitler publically backtraced and canceled the order while continuing the extermination in secret. Protesting families were told that their loved ones were being transported to hospitals when really they were killed in the very vans that were supposed to take them there (the Nazis used gas vans as well as gas chambers).

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Hitler was thus never going to sign an order to kill all the Jews nor would anyone else. The entire SS high command was very hush-hush about the whole thing. They used code words, destroyed documents, bug up mass graves to burn the bodies, and very secretly went about their evil work.

There was never a list of all the Jews the Nazis killed. There were not even lists for individual concentration camps. In rare instances, we have records that show how many death certificates were sent out by the Nazis or how many inmates in a camp had died but these records are incomplete. At Auschwitz for instance there is a book that records some 70,000 who had died in the camp but this list excludes the 900,000 who were killed in the gas chambers upon arrival and the other 120,000 that died in the death marches or from various acts of brutality.


So where do we get “6 million” from and when did we identify that number?

So to answer the question the first estimate of “6 million” came about in 1945. A top SS official named Dr. Wilhelm Hoettl stated under oath that Adolf Eichmann had reported 6 million Jews killed. This was the first estimate we really had and it was based just upon a single confession.

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Past that we have to turn to data to find the answer. Prior to WW2 various nations and groups collected census data as we do today. A few examples include

  1. The Jewish Almanac in 1938
  2. The German Minority Census of 1939
  3. The Polish census of 1939
  4. Census data from the USSR from 1933–1940
Thanks to this data we have some idea of how many Jewish were alive in 1939 both globally and in Europe. Roughly speaking there were about 9 to 9.5 million Jewish in Europe and 15.5 to 15.8 million globally.

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We then know that by the time the war ended there were only about 3.5 million Jews left in Europe and somewhere around 9 million left globally.


So we have a disparity here of about 6 million. The question is how many of these people died in the Holocaust and how many died from other causes? You have to factor in death rates, birth rates, and the effect WW2 had on those statistics.

This is why figures vary because it depends on how you factor in death rates, birth rates, and what census data you use. Some historians peg the number at 5.2 million others say it could be as high as 6.2 million. Sadly we won’t ever know.

When it comes to totaling up how many were killed at the various camps we are also having to infer a bit.

Take Treblinka, an extermination camp I studied extensively. Thanks to a report from Chief SS Statistician Richard Korherr and another Telegram from top SS Offical Herman Hofle we know 713,000 Jews had perished at Treblinka by the end of 1942. The two documents had identical statistics showing that there was data being collected and kept ultra-classified. This data was related to “Operation Reinhard” which was the operation of the extermination camps and the liquidation of many Ghettos in Eastern Europe.

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The problem is that Treblinka operated into 1943 too and no records exist from this year. This is where train station controller Franciszek Ząbecki comes into the picture. This guy ran a train station right by Treblinka and noticed that trains arrived full of Jews and departed empty. He figured out what was going on, joined the Polish Resistance, and started painstakingly recording every train arrival for posterity. He also smuggled out many “way bills” that show how many were on each train. Thanks to him we can estimate how many trains arrived in 1942 and 1943. We can then do some basic math to find out how many Jews on average were on each train and come to a total estimate of 800,000ish.

Why “ish”? Well because we cannot verify exactly how many people were on each train. In 1943 Treblinka slowed considerably and while we have some “way-bills” that confirm numbers it’s hard to take these at face value. So the best estimate is 850,000 give or take. We are 100% more than 712,000 were killed there but we cannot give an exact number. Franciszek Ząbecki for his part did his own calculations based on what he saw and recorded and estimated the total at over 1 million- and he could be right.

So obviously it’s all rather complex and it took lots of serious study and research to accurately identify the number of victims. However, the numbers we do have are 100% accurate and based on mountains of evidence.

  • We have confession from top SS officials, top Nazi officials, camp commandants, camp guards, Gestapo members, Einsatzgruppen (mobile killing squad) members, and even just low ranking SS guys
  • We have eye witness testimony from hundreds of thousands of people. Many were Sonderkommandos, which were Jews forced to work in the gas chambers. Others are Polish, Soviet, Greek, German, French, and Romani camp survivors. Some witnesses were even people who managed to escape the death camps during the revolts there.
  • Census data is beyond reproach considering we have multiple sources that are all relatively close in their estimates. There is variance but we are talking about a few percentage points. Both the Nazis and Jews showed there were 9 million Jews in Europe and after the war every census ever done (and there have been hundreds) all showed that the global Jewish population shrank around 6 million
  • We have some scattered documents that fill in the blanks. For instance the mobile killing squads neatly recorded every single massacre and sent these reports into Berlin for SS leaders to see. We have hundreds of these reports.
So the crux of the estimates is the census data. That gives us a ballpark. To back up the census data we have a few confessions but very little here because if there was a “master list” for all the Jews killed, it was destroyed. So with a ball park number in mind we turn to various witnesses, confessions, and a few crucial source documents to fill in the blanks.

Based on my studies here is where the poor souls who were murdered in the Holocaust died. These are just my estimates based on my studies and certainly this is not the end all be all of estimates- but it paints a picture.

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No one made the argument 6 million Jews got incinerated. 6 Jews million were murdered in general.

Some by bullets, some by gas, some by starvation, some by exhaustion, some by disease.

Many indeed were killed of starvation, they were put concentration camps with no food or medicine, is that not a way to murder them?
And they also forget the 200,000-500,000 Serbs killed by Ustashe Croats in WWII.
 
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So if someone infected me with a cold I was the victim of biowarfare? Lol
What a dumb answer.. do u know not know what the European did??...yes your ancestors did in the Americas? Your innocent victim card doesn't work.
 
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because your disgusting and dont wash and also eat bacon, Europeans would never wash and carried all sorts of infected diseases

err .... i doubt native americans had any better practices
 
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What a dumb answer.. do u know not know what the European did??...yes your ancestors did in the Americas? Your innocent victim card doesn't work.
Okay, I guess the Chinese killed millions across the world with COVID then because it started there.
 
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Hi,

Do you have the ballz to talk about 2.5 million afghans killed by the US occupation---3 million plus Iraqis killed by US invasion / occupation---2.5 million syrians killed---close to a million Libyans killed---close to 100 million muslims made homeless by US invasions---.

As for Jews killed by gas and then incinerated---technically it was not possible to have those many jews killed by gas and then burnt in ovens---.

One imagines that they were industrial grade mega size fire pits / oven---where 100's of dead bodies be thrown in a one time and turned to ash---but as a mater of fact such was not the case----.

An average oven could take one body at a time---took hours to burn it---then the bones need to be taken out and then smashed by a hammers to turn to powder---.

But before that---dead people to be picked up from the supposed rooms where they were gassed---took to the room with the ovens---.

The american never were able to prove that---. No massive number of gas protection dresses at locations that may have been worn by the guards for self protection when they were moving dead bodies---. No large number of trollies found to move the dead from the gas chamber to the oven chamber---.

So many inconsistencies here---. There is no doubt that the atrocities did occur on a high scale---but not on the stage that has been claimed---.

Most jews would have died due to starvation---as they were the labor force---and under extreme food shortage in germany during war---became the biggest victims of food scarcity---.
I prefer die in a gas chamber than from starvation.

Who the hell can give a sht about the killing method?

Innocent Jewish civilians were killed in nazi germany because they were Jewish, you accept that they were more than one. Well, that's enough, that's unacceptable. I dont care the exact number or the killing method.

And the same with any other ethnicity and/or religion. Starting by the last Afghanistan war, based in American lies and nonsenses (911 terrrorist self attacks).


I'm with Chavez in that.
 
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You have just confirmed what I have been saying. Please look at the later part of your post.
It confirms that Israelites were not the original people of this land. They over took the land of Philistine people.


Well ! .... I am prepared to give @Beny Karachun the respect that he will not tell a lie about his history and religion.

He has not replied so far ;)

May be he has gone to fight Palestinian children sitting in armoured vehicle.
No, this is proof that the Philistine people invaded after the Jews entered Caanan - for the second time. They were also most likely European and they were definitely not Arab.

Hi,

Do you have the ballz to talk about 2.5 million afghans killed by the US occupation---3 million plus Iraqis killed by US invasion / occupation---2.5 million syrians killed---close to a million Libyans killed---close to 100 million muslims made homeless by US invasions---.

As for Jews killed by gas and then incinerated---technically it was not possible to have those many jews killed by gas and then burnt in ovens---.

One imagines that they were industrial grade mega size fire pits / oven---where 100's of dead bodies be thrown in a one time and turned to ash---but as a mater of fact such was not the case----.

An average oven could take one body at a time---took hours to burn it---then the bones need to be taken out and then smashed by a hammers to turn to powder---.

But before that---dead people to be picked up from the supposed rooms where they were gassed---took to the room with the ovens---.

The american never were able to prove that---. No massive number of gas protection dresses at locations that may have been worn by the guards for self protection when they were moving dead bodies---. No large number of trollies found to move the dead from the gas chamber to the oven chamber---.

So many inconsistencies here---. There is no doubt that the atrocities did occur on a high scale---but not on the stage that has been claimed---.

Most jews would have died due to starvation---as they were the labor force---and under extreme food shortage in germany during war---became the biggest victims of food scarcity---.
What about the 100s of millions of Afghanis killed by Martians?
Now, when we have entered fantasyland…
 
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What a dumb answer.. do u know not know what the European did??...yes your ancestors did in the Americas? Your innocent victim card doesn't work.
Asians used biowarfare way before that.
The difference is that it was ordered from the top instead of used by a few rogue elements.
Your ancestors are thus worse - according to your logic.
 
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Okay, I guess the Chinese killed millions across the world with COVID then because it started there.
except there is no proof of that. Where it started could be anywhere in the world and China with its massive economy simply were the first ones effected. Covid could have started in the Atlantic Ocean and then China buys the infected animals because it is the largest trading nation for example. Secondly no one can rule out biological warfare on China from the West due to wanting to stop China's growth. Simple fact is no one knows where Covid started from or where it came from and attributing blame to people who had nothing to do with it is wrong. Maybe that is why the muslim world/far-right hates jews because they are always lying and stirring up sh1t.
 
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except there is no proof of that. Where it started could be anywhere in the world and China with its massive economy simply were the first ones effected. Covid could have started in the Atlantic Ocean and then China buys the infected animals because it is the largest trading nation for example. Secondly no one can rule out biological warfare on China from the West due to wanting to stop China's growth. Simple fact is no one knows where Covid started from or where it came from and attributing blame to people who had nothing to do with it is wrong.
Okay well there is no proof the disease the Native Americans died from started in Europe, maybe it's some genocidal guy from Uganda that started it, what a mass murderer, he must be as bad as Hitler and Stalin.
 
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Okay well there is no proof the disease the Native Americans died from started in Europe, maybe it's some genocidal guy from Uganda that started it, what a mass murderer, he must be as bad as Hitler and Stalin.
I don't care about native americans. Disease doesn't even matter and i think ur responding to someone else. The genocide, stealing their land, relocating them constantly and tearing up all the contracts year after year is why people complain about colonialism.
 
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There's a great scene that's the best reply to this hippie talk:

From 0:40 onwards


ok thats fine

Europeans have been killing each other since many moons before Asians arrived here (mainly after 1945)

so now EU belongs to Asians and Muslims

white man caused too much death and destruction time to pay back now

Okay well there is no proof the disease the Native Americans died from started in Europe, maybe it's some genocidal guy from Uganda that started it, what a mass murderer, he must be as bad as Hitler and Stalin.

two biggest killers Stalin and Hitler were white and European

so that just reinforces my point

just because native Americans killed each others doesnt mean you have the moral right to kill them
 
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And yet,you went to the country of the white man,to live and prosper.

had you not known

UK had a colonial past, so Pakistanis were invited here after WWII to rebuild the nation, Ayub Khan and Queen Elizabeth had the deal done back in the 1960s where 1 million Pakistani could come to UK no Visa no immigration, turn up swap Pakistani passport for British enter the country , no other country in the World had such a agreement between 2 nations

between 1960 and 1980 exactly 1 million arrived to UK, after this immigration for Pakistani started then you needed Visa

now we are 3 million strong, UK belongs to us even the Prime Minister is brown, the London Mayor the Transport minister and rest of the country soon Inshallah
 
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wo biggest killers Stalin and Hitler were white and European

so that just reinforces my point

just because native Americans killed each others doesnt mean you have the moral right to kill them
No. The modern leftists narrative presents them as some kind of peace-loving people,who never bothered anyone and they lived peacefully among each other with all their tribal ways and wisdom etc. And then the bad white people came and killed them all.

That's stuff only hippies,staunch anti-Western and kids believe.

There were tribes that were allied with the British and tribes allied with the French. Later with the Americans against other Indians. Just like when the Spanish and Portuguese first arrived in the New World. They had local allies,who were fighting against others who oppressed them.

You talk about Stalin and Hitler being European.

Ok,what about Genghis Khan and Mao? What about Pol Pot? Tamerlane? Attila?

Screenshot_2022-12-31 List of massacres in India - Wikipedia.png


The point is...you have to stop this racist blaming.

now we are 3 million strong, UK belongs to us even the Prime Minister is brown, the London Mayor the Transport minister and rest of the country soon Inshallah
This statement is extremely disturbing.

And if you hate the white man so much,why don't you live and go back to "peaceful" Asia?
 
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