When coterminous Pakistan fought Alexander the Great and almost brought him down to his knees.

[kalakaar]

I am atheist but it sounds cool, vulcan and shit.

There is provision for athiest also in Vedas.

"Milk consumed by snakes increases their poison. Similarly, advice given to fools make them even more furious instead of pacifying them.'' Rig veda

implies on you

have a nice day

 

[Hold up]

There is provision for athiest also in Vedas.

"Milk consumed by snakes increases their poison. Similarly, advice given to fools make them even more furious instead of pacifying them.'' Rig veda

implies on you

have a nice day

Okay .

 

[Dalai Lama]

All this recent hoopla about the Indus Valley stems from the fact that Pakistan is currently ranked 20th on the Fragile States index. They have no recent accomplishments be proud of. The word Pakistan is pretty much synonymous with the word terrorism in today's World so it's only natural for them to resort to revisionist history in order to feel some false sense of pride.

20 years ago, the Pakistanis couldn't have cared less about the IVC.

 

[Hamza913]

20 years ago, the Pakistanis couldn't have cared less about the IVC.

Don't want to talk about IVC? Okay.

We can bring up the Islamic conquests of Hindustan instead, where hundreds of millions of you were slaughtered and made our slaves for a thousand years.

 

[Dalai Lama]

Don't want to talk about IVC? Okay.

We can bring up the Islamic conquests of Hindustan instead, where hundreds of millions of you were slaughtered and made our slaves for a thousand years.

Same thing again. You are the direct result of Islamic expansion in the Indian subcontinent, not the cause, no matter how much you'd like to be. It's not something to be ashamed of. Likewise, both India and Pakistan were ruled by the British colonialists for 2 centuries and as humiliating it might be to your fragile ego, this is a fact which must be accepted and reconciled with in order to progress.

Like I said before:

The word Pakistan is pretty much synonymous with the word terrorism in today's World so it's only natural for them to resort to revisionist history in order to feel some false sense of pride.

---

Btw, the state I hail from (Karnataka) celebrates the victories of Tipu Sultan against the colonialists. It doesn't matter to us that he was Muslim because he was a son of the lands he fought for.

 

[Hamza913]

Same thing again. You are the direct result of Islamic expansion in the Indian subcontinent, not the cause, no matter how much you'd like to be.

Btw, the state I hail from (Karnataka) celebrates the victories of Tipu Sultan against the colonialists. It doesn't matter to us that he was Muslim because he was a son of the lands he fought for.

Wrong, we are descended from the Islamic conquerors (but most of our ancestry is from other sources):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3163234

"The study showed that the Muslim Gujjars differ significantly from their counterpart, the Hindu Gujjars"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20067368

"we observed a certain degree of genetic contribution from Iran to both Muslim populations"

Many local Muslim converts were also directly involved in the Islamic conquests:

Khilijis, Durranis, Suri's and Ghurids - Pashtuns (2nd largest ethnic group in Pakistan, Ahmed Shah Durrani and Sher Shah Suri were also born in Pakistani Punjab, they conquered large portions of Hindustan)

http://www.pashtunforums.com/pashtun-history-/38336-ghuri-pashtun-persian.html
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Khalji-dynasty
http://pakteahouse.net/2009/11/25/ahmad-shah-durrani-a-king-of-high-rank/
http://historypak.com/sher-shah-suri/

Mysoreans - Tipu Sultan's grandfather was Punjabi (they defeated the Maratha's and fought bravely against the British)

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...nd-tumakuru-district/articleshow/61574823.cms

Rind dynasty - Baluchis (at one point they sacked Delhi)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_Chakar_Rind
https://real-politique.blogspot.com/2009/12/mir-chakar-khan-rind-warrior-hero-of.html

Shah Mir dynasty - Gujjars from Swat (they almost completely wiped out Hinduism/Buddhism from Kashmir, with one ruler even earning the title of iconoclast for the number of idols he destroyed)

http://lostkashmirihistory.com/sultan-sikandar-man-myth/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shah_Mir_dynasty
https://jktribals.page.tl/History-of-Gujjars.htm

Lodi dynasty - Half Pashtun half Punjabi dynasty (ruled over eastern Pakistan and northern Hindustan)

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Lodi-dynasty
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikandar_Lodi

Aurangzeb Alamgir - Was born in the Indus Valley

http://lostislamichistory.com/aurangzeb-and-islamic-rule-in-india/

Shah Jahan - Came from Lahore

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Shah-Jahan

Muhammad Bin Qasim utilised Gujjar and Baluchi mercenaries:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_bin_Qasim#The_campaign

Mahmud Ghaznavi had large numbers of Indo-Aryans fight in his army:

http://www.barmazid.com/2016/11/ghaznavids-had-large-number-of-hindus.html

Babur employed Punjabis into his military:

http://firdosh101.blogspot.com/2009/05/history-of-gakhars.html

Shahbaz Khan was a Punjabi and one of the Mughal Empire's greatest generals during Akbar's reign:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahbaz_Khan_Kamboh

It should matter, back then Muslims considered themselves closer to Muslims of other ethnic groups than Kafirs of their own ethnic group (many still feel the same way today). It's one of the primary reasons why the Muslim Empire's were so ethnically diverse, and why Muslims to this day take pride in the achievements of Muslims of other ethnic groups. This concept is simply non-existent among most communities of other faiths or exists at a significantly weaker degree, the only faith with a comparable type of brotherhood is the Jews.

It's better to think of Islam as a country rather than a religion, and being a practising Muslim as a nationality rather than a reflection someone's personal religion.

Likewise, both India and Pakistan were ruled by the British colonialists for 2 centuries and as humiliating it might be to your fragile ego, this is a fact which must be accepted and reconciled with in order to progress.

Wrong, the majority of Hindustan was ruled by the British for 150 hundred years whilst the majority of the region of Pakistan was ruled by the British for 100 years.

 

[HariPrasad]

And Alexander got a lesson that what would happened if any one tries to mess with Islamic country.

 

[Dalai Lama]

Muhammad Bin Qasim predates all of the rulers you mentioned and he was an Umayyad general who conquered parts of present day Pakistan, namely Sindh and Multan. Before that, the ruler of Sindh was Raja Dahir; the last Hindu ruler of Sindh. The inescapable fact is that you are not an Arab, your ancestors were Hindus who converted to Islam.

The people of the IVC were not Muslim as it predates the advent of Islam.

You guys spend a lot of time thinking about the past instead of building your country, that's why your economy is the state that it's in. You would do well to start thinking about the future of your country. The need for dwelling on the past will diminish as you will have current day achievements which you can feel proud of.

 

[UnitedPak]

And Alexander got a lesson that what would happened if any one tries to mess with Islamic country.

Muhammad Bin Qasim predates all of the rulers you mentioned and he was an Umayyad general who conquered parts of present day Pakistan, namely Sindh and Multan. Before that, the ruler of Sindh was Raja Dahir; the last Hindu ruler of Sindh. The inescapable fact is that you are not an Arab, your ancestors were Hindus who converted to Islam.

The people of the IVC were not Muslim as it predates the advent of Islam.

You guys spend a lot of time thinking about the past instead of building your country, that's why your economy is the state that it's in. You would do well to start thinking about the future of your country. The need for dwelling on the past will diminish as you will have current day achievements which you can feel proud of.

Two more Gangas rise up from their swamp bleating on about religion and obsession with Islam.

We are discussing Pakistani history and Pakistani ancestors here. Keep derailing this thread with your obsession with religion and you will end up with bans.

Btw, the state I hail from (Karnataka) celebrates the victories of Tipu Sultan against the colonialists. It doesn't matter to us that he was Muslim because he was a son of the lands he fought for

By the same token, Indus Valley is our history and heritage. No amount of gangetic tears will change this.

 

[Hamza913]

Muhammad Bin Qasim predates all of the rulers you mentioned and he was an Umayyad general who conquered parts of present day Pakistan, namely Sindh and Multan. Before that, the ruler of Sindh was Raja Dahir; the last Hindu ruler of Sindh. The inescapable fact is that you are not an Arab, your ancestors were Hindus who converted to Islam.

The people of the IVC were not Muslim as it predates the advent of Islam.

You guys spend a lot of time thinking about the past instead of building your country, that's why your economy is the state that it's in. You would do well to start thinking about the future of your country. The need for dwelling on the past will diminish as you will have current day achievements which you can feel proud of.

Did you read my post? I clearly showed that yes we are descended from people who migrated here during the Islamic conquests, that many Pakistanis fought under Qasim's leadership, and that as Muslims our religion comes before our ethnicity, so we will take heroes based on whether or not they fought for Islam first and foremost (it's literally haram to do otherwise, some even consider it kufr). This is your first and final warning, read what I write or don't bother responding. Pakistan literally exists because of these Islamic conquests and we are Muslim just like these conquerors, why would we not consider conquerors like Qasim as one of our own?

Large portions of Pakistan was Buddhist at the time. In fact, it's one of the principle reasons Qasim had such success, they didn't like their Hindu ruler and defected to the Caliphate.

Funny, don't you lot say Pakistan didn't exist prior to 1947? Stay consistent with your rhetoric.

They weren't Hindu either since they predate the advent of Hinduism.

Post 1947, for most of our history our economy and country as a whole was doing far better than yours. Even now, the gap in GDP per capita (PPP) isn't that large, and with our economy growing rapidly the gap will decrease and we will go back to having a higher GDP per capita (PPP) than you (as is our natural position).

Even now, you are still inferior to us in many aspects:

https://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2010/07/20/india-could-use-pakistans-infrastructure/

https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-05...emains-huge-problem-worst-all-women-and-girls

https://iq-research.info/en/average-iq-by-country

https://www.businesstoday.in/curren...low-poverty-line-world-bank/story/238085.html

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1576953/2-pakistan-set-outdo-india-introducing-5g-internet-pta/

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ears-of-21st-century/articleshow/56296213.cms

 

[El Sidd]

We mostly forget a big factor when discussing history.

Weather.

Porus had weather on his side. Alex could come as far as he could but needed a defeat to realise how far he was away from Home.

Alexander had by then took Afghan light infantry as well.

I personally believe that stalemate theory is a Western Propaganda

 

[Joe Shearer]

Baba is what we call little boys.

Cultural thing.

The IVC thing was a discussion I had with Joe recently.

Personally, I believe that the IVC was more bronze age Iranic than Indic. The bull. The priest. The open air burial pits. Joe disagreed (partially) and pulled some back for his own team. I respect Joe and his grasp of history, so ...

@Joe Shearer

Cheers, Doc

You were right in a way, in locating their origins (one set of them) in geographical Iran. As for the cultural attributes, I'm not sure who got what from whom. Did you know that the wheel on the lion capitol was a borrowing from Persia? It gets as fundamental as that, on all sides. There was no dominating cultural printing block.

 

[jetray]

Two more Gangas rise up from their swamp bleating on about religion and obsession with Islam.

We are discussing Pakistani history and Pakistani ancestors here. Keep derailing this thread with your obsession with religion and you will end up with bans.



By the same token, Indus Valley is our history and heritage. No amount of gangetic tears will change this.

only on PDF, where facts are unicorn.

 

[El Sidd]

only on PDF, where facts are unicorn.

What is your Obsession with this thread

 

[jetray]

What is your Obsession with this thread

obsession ? where ? how?
As I said facts are unicorn. Next time post facts.