Whats PAF thinking ?

[el nino]

We shouldn't forget that the IAF has to split its forces on two fronts. So everything they have gets divided by 2. Now if we factor in the general rule of strategy where the aggressor must have a numerical superiority of more than 2.2:1, and the fact that all of their planes have very poor serviceability rates, it looks like the IAF is much weaker than what their numbers on paper suggest. Now if we look at the battlefields, we only need to travel a few hundred KMs to reach them and the PAF will be always fighting under their own AWACS cover, so having huge fighter jets such as the SU-30 seems pointless where their massive radars and long endurance become redundant. The JF-17 can fire the same SD-10 BVRAAM that the Chinese SU-30s fire and so at these short ranges, the JF-17 is as potent as the SU-30 if it is sufficiently upgraded.

Overall, it looks like the PAF is an extremely strong position to defend us against the IAF.

More inaccurate assessment I see

Like Pakistan service rates being better than India.thst is utter nonsense no air force in the world has near 100% service rate not even our world class raf here in UK .
Pakistan IE reliant in USA to keep f16 air worthy the mirages are so old you are cannalblising spares


As for the thunders equal to flankers that'the.joke of the century ask your Chinease friends how many flankers they fly and how many thunders

Answer four hundred flankers nil thunders

Why because one flanker equals two thunders

 

[Dr Shaheryar]

Have you flown a thunder. Sorry to bust your bubble but j10 is specific for China and jf17 is for Pakistan. Other customers are bonuses for both countries. China uses Pakistan expertise in western tech and also war expertise. This in turn leads to a better product for both. Using each other help is necessary to accomplish better and best products. China is becoming master of this. Pakistan is benefitting from it. China has vouched in case of war and that is only in case of war. We are gradually replacing our old and depleting assets to be in a better position. Time will definitely tell. Who know what the political situation in 10 years time will be. But Pakistan is preparing and we should stand with our forces.

 

[DarX]

More inaccurate assessment I see

Like Pakistan service rates being better than India.thst is utter nonsense no air force in the world has near 100% service rate not even our world class raf here in UK .
Pakistan IE reliant in USA to keep f16 air worthy the mirages are so old you are cannalblising spares


As for the thunders equal to flankers that'the.joke of the century ask your Chinease friends how many flankers they fly and how many thunders

Answer four hundred flankers nil thunders

Why because one flanker equals two thunders

More laughable nonsensical propaganda. What are you talking about? Four hundred flankers nil Thunders? One Flanker equals two thunders? In any case, I mentioned the core requirements of short ranges in the Indo-Pak battle theaters which means that the plane doesn't have to be very large as it doesn't have to travel long distances and doesn't have to carry a huge radar because it will always be supported by our ground radar and AWACS network. The flip side of having SU-30s are horrendous operating costs and a radar cross section the size of a 737! Even common sense can explain why a light fighter like the JF-17 will be much better than the SU-30 in this situation, and why China needs the SU-30s to cover its huge borders.

With reference to the serviceability rates, yes no air force has perfect serviceability and the PAF is no exception. But the Flankers and Fulcrums have such horrendous maintenance records that they are literally falling out of the skies (7 Flankers lost in the last 10 years) or parts are dropping off while they are in flights, and this is when they are less than ten years old. You mention our Mirages but you forget that they are now 50 years old, and while the IAF continues with its 50 year old Mig-21s because of its blundering LCA Tejas program, we are well set to replace the Mirages with the JF-17 in the next 5 years. We can always maintain the F-16 because we get support from Turkey.

By the way, I see that you have changed your loyalties (not even our world class raf here in UK) to your new country Great Britain. Very nice.

 

[wiseone2]

Chinese were near to invade from north of india but Soviet Union send troops to the Xinjiang border to stop Chinese from invading india,and record of history shows that Nixon was committed to help Pakistan. But he was not able to avoid u.s senate who was against Pakistan. Even they did not permit Jordan to give Pakistan their F-104 fighters.so till 16 dec we were waiting both allies for their help but no one came to rescue us.

There is no way China can attack in December when snow fills the mountain passes. It would be suicidal.
Kissenger/Nixon were not going to save East Pakistan. They were ultimate realists. The 7th fleet was to save West Pakistan.

Have you flown a thunder. Sorry to bust your bubble but j10 is specific for China and jf17 is for Pakistan. Other customers are bonuses for both countries. China uses Pakistan expertise in western tech and also war expertise. This in turn leads to a better product for both. Using each other help is necessary to accomplish better and best products. China is becoming master of this. Pakistan is benefitting from it. China has vouched in case of war and that is only in case of war. We are gradually replacing our old and depleting assets to be in a better position. Time will definitely tell. Who know what the political situation in 10 years time will be. But Pakistan is preparing and we should stand with our forces.

I have been through this argument before

The PLAAF has no problems operating hundreds of antiquated J-7s but some how a superior JF-17 does not meet their specifications.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander ?

 

[el nino]

The Chinease built the thunder for export to those air forces who

Do not need hi end expensive twin engines fighter
Those sir forces seeking a budget fighter with some aspects of a hi end fourth generation fighter lime the gripen or falcon .

It was never designed for Plaaf or indeed to be a replacement for their legacy fighters lime J7/J8..thst has gone to fc20.

We should not compare su30mki or rafale with the thunder the features and performance are too apart

 

[wiseone2]

The Chinease built the thunder for export to those air forces who

Do not need hi end expensive twin engines fighter
Those sir forces seeking a budget fighter with some aspects of a hi end fourth generation fighter lime the gripen or falcon .

It was never designed for Plaaf or indeed to be a replacement for their legacy fighters lime J7/J8..thst has gone to fc20.

We should not compare su30mki or rafale with the thunder the features and performance are too apart

Isn't the J-10 a single engine fighter ?

 

[MastanKhan]

Kissenger/Nixon were not going to save East Pakistan. They were ultimate realists. The 7th fleet was to save West Pakistan.

Hi,

The pakistanis have a problem understanding the fact that the americans understood the 71 debacle as fight between two brothers---one of them did not want to live together.

So---tactically---there was no reason to interfere.

I have been through this argument before

The PLAAF has no problems operating hundreds of antiquated J-7s but some how a superior JF-17 does not meet their specifications.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander ?

Hi,

As for this issue---you have intentionally brought it up---. I had clarified it a few time to you---but maybe out of habbit you come back to it---.

Why J7's in the past and not now---because the minimum THRESHOLD level of the utility has CHANGED in their GEOGRAPHIC arena.

In its day and age---the J7 was a potent aircraft. China did not have a realistic threat of war with Inida or the U S in the past---but it is a reality now.

In your own backyard---you batsmen playing cricket---don't use the same bat that was popular some 30 years ago.

Their bat of choice is about TWICE the size of the older version---why---because the need and utility has changed. So---where is the problem if china opts for an aircraft twice the size or almost twice the sized---.

Secondly---china is filling in the hole in an un-conventional manner---it has started from top down---. It has put most of its resource in its tier 1 and tier 2 programs---the 5th gen and the 4.5 gen aircraft---due to the level of threat that it perceives---.

Thirdly---INTEGRATION---why waste time on integration of JF17 when another partner is busy integrating the aircraft---why waste 10 + years and millions in resource and manpower for integration when a partner is already doing it.

So---your point of china not inducting the JF17 is moot---.

 

[ravinderpalrulez]

Austria is retiring their eurofighters. It will be good for PAF to take a look on them.

 

[PurJosh]

f

 

[wiseone2]

Hi,

The pakistanis have a problem understanding the fact that the americans understood the 71 debacle as fight between two brothers---one of them did not want to live together.

So---tactically---there was no reason to interfere.



Hi,

As for this issue---you have intentionally brought it up---. I had clarified it a few time to you---but maybe out of habbit you come back to it---.

Why J7's in the past and not now---because the minimum THRESHOLD level of the utility has CHANGED in their GEOGRAPHIC arena.

In its day and age---the J7 was a potent aircraft. China did not have a realistic threat of war with Inida or the U S in the past---but it is a reality now.

In your own backyard---you batsmen playing cricket---don't use the same bat that was popular some 30 years ago.

Their bat of choice is about TWICE the size of the older version---why---because the need and utility has changed. So---where is the problem if china opts for an aircraft twice the size or almost twice the sized---.

Secondly---china is filling in the hole in an un-conventional manner---it has started from top down---. It has put most of its resource in its tier 1 and tier 2 programs---the 5th gen and the 4.5 gen aircraft---due to the level of threat that it perceives---.

Thirdly---INTEGRATION---why waste time on integration of JF17 when another partner is busy integrating the aircraft---why waste 10 + years and millions in resource and manpower for integration when a partner is already doing it.

So---your point of china not inducting the JF17 is moot---.

The J-7 was a potent aircraft in the 1980s. I do not disagree there. Right now the J-7 is useless as an offensive weapon. PLAAF is operating 500-1000 J-7 aircraft. What is the trouble in replacing them with JF-17 ? On paper the JF-17 does everything the J-7 does plus more. The PAF is replacing its J-7 with JF-17. China has already wasted resources building the JF-17 for Pakistan. It is that expensive ? The PAF is paying $20-30 million. $5 billion for 200 aircraft is nothing for the PLAAF budget.

there are two logical conclusions. Both of its will irritate Pakistanis to the nth degree.

One is that they do not trust Pakistan with their military secrets. That is the true reason they have not sold the J-10 and not planning to sell the J-20. Spare me the BS about J-10 being offered to the PAF. At the end of the day the PAF is not operating the J-10.

Two is that they do not want to reveal to USA how good or bad their technology is

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The J-7 was a potent aircraft in the 1980s. I do not disagree there. Right now the J-7 is useless as an offensive weapon. PLAAF is operating 500-1000 J-7 aircraft. What is the trouble in replacing them with JF-17 ? On paper the JF-17 does everything the J-7 does plus more. The PAF is replacing its J-7 with JF-17. China has already wasted resources building the JF-17 for Pakistan. It is that expensive ? The PAF is paying $20-30 million. $5 billion for 200 aircraft is nothing for the PLAAF budget.

there are two logical conclusions. Both of its will irritate Pakistanis to the nth degree.

One is that they do not trust Pakistan with their military secrets. That is the true reason they have not sold the J-10 and not planning to sell the J-20. Spare me the BS about J-10 being offered to the PAF. At the end of the day the PAF is not operating the J-10.

Two is that they do not want to reveal to USA how good or bad their technology is

FYI ... AVIC offers the J-10A for export as the FC-20 and that has been on offer to the PAF from the day it was put on AVIC's listing. The J-10B on the other hand is a different story, besides people claiming one or the other, it is not on AVIC's export portfolio.

 

[el nino]

Round in circles you people go..
For a full decade now PDF posters asking why no true modern fourth generation fighter not been inducted in paf

This question arose in 2007 when India received the first fifty mki .
Now ten years later with India having 240.,mki the Pakistanis are still asking where is the world class fighter.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Round in circles you people go..
For a full decade now PDF posters asking why no true modern fourth generation fighter not been inducted in paf

This question arose in 2007 when India received the first fifty mki .
Now ten years later with India having 240.,mki the Pakistanis are still asking where is the world class fighter.

Not to be rude, but if you're fed up, then why keep posting?

 

[Thorough Pro]

You people are wasting time with people who understand everything but don't want to understand or admit.

FYI ... AVIC offers the J-10A for export as the FC-20 and that has been on offer to the PAF from the day it was put on AVIC's listing. The J-10B on the other hand is a different story, besides people claiming one or the other, it is not on AVIC's export portfolio.

 

[CriticalThought]

Here is what PAF seems to be thinking. Indians are too cowardly to start a war any time soon so we have the luxury to start investing in basic scientific and technological infrastructure. Just like 10 years passed and all of a sudden Indians have all those MKIs, 10 more will pass and all of a sudden PAF will be a world class airforce and a true force to be reckoned with. We have to start somewhere and now is as good a time as any to make this start.

May Allah Guide our leadership in making the best decisions for Pakistan and Islam and Muslims in general. Aameen.