What's new

What would have Jinnah thought of Ajmal Kasab and gang, wonders SC

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes, but yours are not because of us, and we cannot solve our problems like you solve yours.

Conspiracy theories of blaming others is not going to solve anything. If a foreign agency is supporting an insurgency in your or our country, there is a reason our citizens have decided to take up arms against us----What were the concerns of those people???Figure it out and solve it.
We didn't put a gun to their head and neither did agencies put a gun to Balochis heads in order to make them fight.
 
.
Till India remain secular your national identity will always be a state of confusion. Your existence as a nation is undefined without mentioning India.


That's the biggest misconception Indians have.

Our national identity has nothing to do with India.

We have our identity imbued in the thousands of years old history of the land that we own and call Pakistan. We are the scions of Indus valley civilization and hold its cradle. We are now Muslims.

Was India mentioned in any of of the above. nahin na.

You guys are a non-entity for us. Period.

All fine and dandy.

Why do you think its only Muslims who believed that they were "different" ?

Why not Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, Parsis, Jains, Buddhists?

Why only Muslims?

Whats so special about you guys man pray tell. I frankly cannot see anything.

I am agog with curiosity. Is there something really private and secret which you have not been letting on to the un-believer?

Something which forces you to convert those you marry so that the secret remains in-house.

Thoda hint do bhai .....


andhon ko din ki roshni mein bhi andhera hi dikhta hai
 
.
huh ... killing people in India by teaching our people the correct perspective of historical facts. Where do you come from. Your thinking is similar to what @contrarian posted a comment in a thread. Let me answer him and you as well - and then you can comment....


[/I]
One can understand the Indian resistance to Two Nation Theory. The two nation theory identified that Muslims and Hindus are two different sets of people with different religious beliefs, different cultural precepts, and different understanding of each other’s history etc etc. Therefore, when we talk of two nation theory, we have to include Hindus in it.

The involvement of India came in when Muslims demanded a separate homeland and one of the basis was the two nation theory. Therefore, when two nation theory is discussed it is not between India and Pakistan, it is between Hindus and Muslims.

Pakistan is also a diverse, multi-ethnic and multi-religious country and so is India. The two nation theory is between two sets of people and not two countries.

But we are discussing history here, not the definition of two nation theory. The history books show it like Hindus are our enemies, whereas there was enmity between Hindus and Muslims, just like Catholics and prostitants, but why should we describe them in a negative way, and you still haven't answered my question yesterday, why is the Hindu contribution in 1857 hidden? What is the purpose to hide anything good done by anyone apart from Muslims?
 
.
That's not how it works. You don't dream up suspects out of thin air and try to fit the evidence to fit your predetermined suspects. If India is serious about resolving this matter through proper legal process, then it should work WITH Pakistan to share all the evidence, including access to Kasab, and let the evidence lead where it may.



This is now getting to be a silly exercise. You seem to deliberately misconstrue my points. My argument is simple: a crime was committed in India by Pakistanis who planned, financed & executed it from within Pakistan. It is incumbent on Pakistan to track, find evidence & convict those responsible for the crime. India was the target; Pakistan was the base. The evidence obviously will have to be primarily found in Pakistan where the planning, training & initial execution of the operation took place. Any evidence from India, where the end operation took place would normally be limited when compared to where the planning took place. However, in this case, a wealthy of evidence especially phone taps & the capture of a player involved adds substantially to the evidence. Pakistan accepts that the attackers were Pakistani & the planning took place in Pakistan. If one's argument is that Hafiz Saeed was not involved, surely someone else is. Is Pakistan arguing that no one was involved? Obviously not, so someone must be charged if the case has to come to a conclusion. Pakistan has arrested a few, some of whom the Indian government has no idea why for. To then ask for proof by India against gentlemen charged by Pakistan is silly. If Pakistan was merely going about by Indian evidence, then Hafiz Saeed should also be prosecuted. If they are going by a different set of evidences as they must since they seem unable to charge Hafiz Saeed, then they must possess requisite evidence to prosecute.

Pakistan's refusal to consider Headley's testimony and their attempts to block Abu Jundal's extradition to India are hardly about to convince anyone of honourable intentions. More than Headley, Pakistan's desperate attempt to block Jundal's extradition by claiming him to be a Pakistani citizen & then completely reversing position & washing their hands off by claiming he was Indian citizen & therefore suggesting that India was responsible for his actions was quite clearly the last straw. It was the first time that the Indian government unequivocally said that Pakistani state actors were involved. There simply could be no doubt considering Pakistan's desperate attempts to block his arrest & later in light of his revelations, no one in India would buy any Pakistani claims of honest intentions. You are free to suggest that it is all India's fault & ignore the reality of what was said in India, the U.S. & Saudi Arabia but to suggest that the onus of providing evidence must lie with the victim while the perpetrators laugh their way out is hardly about to pass for justice, in anyone's books!
 
.
Actually Jinnah started all the violence in Kashmir....Jinnah wanted Kashmir to be part of Pakistan...In 1947-48 he sent Mujahideens(terrorists) from NWFP into Kashmir to disrupt peace and stability of Kashmir....Jinnah was the one who triggered Hindu-Muslim riots in India.....and Pakistanis call him Quaid-e-Azam.....Can anybody who is responsible for bloodshed be called a great Leader??....Shame on the mindset of Pakistanis


So simple isn't it. And you probably are from Mars - I am sure you are. Enjoy being here while you are.
 
.
That's the biggest misconception Indians have.

Our national identity has nothing to do with India.

We have our identity imbued in the thousands of years old history of the land that we own and call Pakistan. We are the scions of Indus valley civilization and hold its cradle. We are now Muslims.

But majority of your founding fathers never belonged to the land of Indus valley including Jinnah himself.
 
.
But majority of your founding fathers never belonged to the land of Indus valley including Jinnah himself.

You are arguing about History to the wrong lad..he prefers his version....let him stay in his lala land with history connecting him to Indus valley !1
 
.
But we are discussing history here, not the definition of two nation theory. The history books show it like Hindus are our enemies, whereas there was enmity between Hindus and Muslims, just like Catholics and prostitants, but why should we describe them in a negative way, and you still haven't answered my question yesterday, why is the Hindu contribution in 1857 hidden? What is the purpose to hide anything good done by anyone apart from Muslims?


We are not discussing religious history, we are not discussing world history, neither are we discussing Hindu history. We are discussing historical events related to Pakistan and its related Muslim history.

Why is it that we don't include Hindu contribution to 1857. We do, but not in as many details. Indians also do the same and do not highlight much of Muslim contributions in other spheres as well. I responded to your questions in the other thread - probably you didn't read it.
 
. .
But majority of your founding fathers never belonged to the land of Indus valley including Jinnah himself.

Majority of the people who are Pakistanis belong to the land of Indus Valley Civilization. Some leaders were not original peoples of this area, but their ancestors remained in this land for hundreds if not thousands of years. How much time and how many generations does anyone need to own the land they belong to.
 
.
We are not discussing religious history, we are not discussing world history, neither are we discussing Hindu history. We are discussing historical events related to Pakistan and its related Muslim history.

Why is it that we don't include Hindu contribution to 1857. We do, but not in as many details. Indians also do the same and do not highlight much of Muslim contributions in other spheres as well. I responded to your questions in the other thread - probably you didn't read it.

Hope you wouldn't have included Hindu bashing and words like "cunning Hindus" in your textbooks if you really want to define your history without Hindus.
 
.
You are arguing about History to the wrong lad..he prefers his version....let him stay in his lala land with history connecting him to Indus valley !1


If I stay with my version of history, whose historical version do you stay with. Please answer this simple question.

Hope you wouldn't have included Hindu bashing and words like "cunning Hindus" in your textbooks if you really want to define your history without Hindus.


I agree with you to the extent that Pakistan presents its own side of history as Pakistanis perceive it. Most nation states do the same and that includes India. You have no locus-standi to tell me that I should change my history as I see it because it does not highlight your history as you see it.

However, most of Indians here feel that India is fair in presenting its history. Let me quote from a mainstream Indian media outlet’s critique on India’s text books as Indians here have objected to my earlier reference.

These excerpts are from:

http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl1523/15230140.htm

Frontline
India's National Magazine
From the publishers of THE HINDU
Vol. 15 :: No. 23 :: Nov. 07 - 20, 1998

Doctoring textbooks by PARVATHI MENON and T.K. RAJALAKSHMI

In an interview with Frontline (August 22, 1997; Special Issue on the 50th Anniversary of Indepe-ndence), Professor Romila Thapar made the point that barring a few exceptions "Indian history is still generally taught in Indian schools as it was half a century ago."

Most history textbooks, for example, uncritically accepted the periodisation of history, popularised by imperialist historians, into the Hindu, Muslim and British periods. Hindu rulers were projected as having been tolerant and enlightened; Muslim rulers as bigoted and as the persecutors of Hindus.

A 1993 report prepared on the basis of a study conducted by the NCERT of Hindi, history and mathematics textbooks of Uttar Pradesh, the textbooks brought out by Saraswathi Shishu Mandir Prakashan and Markazi Maktaba Islami, and the history syllabi and textbooks of West Bengal, provides examples of the kind of rewriting that history has been subjected to.

The first clutch of biases mentioned in the report pertain to the identification of the outsider, or the foreigner, very early in Indian history, and the resistance to them shown by the people of India (obviously Hindus).

On the emphasis given in the textbooks to Indian culture and civilisation, "...as being the true Indian culture" the report notes that it is "meant to ignore and to denigrate the cultural development during the medieval period as something un- or anti-Indian, the entire medieval period, in any case, being a period of foreign rule and, hence of struggle for national independence." India's freedom struggle began 2,500 years ago, the textbooks assert, and this "national resistance" had been neglected in history textbooks because of a "Western conspiracy".

The NCERT report makes the point that the books that were being used before 1992 were also communally biased and factually incorrect. But the changes made in 1992 gave them a "blatantly communal orientation".

An example of material added in High School Itihas Bhag 1: "The Indian society during the Sultanate period was divided into two main classes - ruling or Muslim class and ruled or non-Muslims of whom Hindus were the majority" (page 281). Or: "Hindu was merely the payer of taxes. In spite of being conquered in the political field, Hindus did not lose courage. To regain their lost independence, they went on raising their voice from time to time. Because of this, historians have called this period as the 'period of resistance' "(page 283).

Delegates from U.P. to the fifth national conference of the All India Democratic Women's Association (AIDWA) in Bangalore in June drew attention to specific examples of bias in the new textbooks. The class VII general knowledge book of the Saraswathi Shishu Mandir had the following questions: "Why is Mulayam Singh Yadav called the Ravan of the modern age?"; "When did Babar destroy the Ram temple and construct the Babri Masjid?"; "How many Hindus were killed by Mulayam Singh Yadav's bullets during the attempt to demolish the Babri Masjid?"

THE NCERT report has also evaluated history textbooks of Classes VI to X of schools that come under the West Bengal Board of Secondary Education. The report does not spare the West Bengal Board, but the criticisms mainly concern lack of care in writing textbooks. On the Class X textbook, the report says: "Much of the description of the history of other countries is loose."

SUBSTANTIAL amendments and additions that suit the RSS ideology and seek to make BJP leaders and their allies popular have been made in grammar, history and political science books for Classes IX, X, XI and XII in Rajasthan.

After the May nuclear explosions at Pokhran, school textbooks have been revised to justify the blasts as well as serve the function of indoctrination on the benefits that have allegedly flowed from the event.

Ram Krishan Aggarwal, president of one progressive section of the Rajasthan Teachers Association, said that the books in which changes were made were prescribed by the Madhyamik Shiksha Board, Ajmer and were compulsory in almost all private schools and some government schools. Aggarwal, a schoolteacher himself, said that prayer meetings were made compulsorytwo yeats earlier; religious songs or slokas were read out even in schools which had a substantial number of Muslim children, he added In the name of moral education or Naitik Shiksha, religious education was being imparted.
 
.
Majority of the people who are Pakistanis belong to the land of Indus Valley Civilization. Some leaders were not original peoples of this area, but their ancestors remained in this land for hundreds if not thousands of years. How much time and how many generations does anyone need to own the land they belong to.

But this is against defining your identity and creation of your nation based on two nation theory and Pakistani Hindu being bashed in the textbook of the land they always lived for thousands of years.
 
. .
If I stay with my version of history, whose historical version do you stay with. Please answer this simple question.

I dont stay with any version , Rather i have come to realise that Every coin has two sides and history is always written by the victor.........therefore i tend to find both sides.... learn why they existed and exist .
Therefore i have no probelm in accepting Jinnah , Creation of Paksitan, Mass murdering of Ghazni muhammed,nadir Shah Tipu sultan...and then accepting Tipu was the tiger of mysore , Ghazni has been made into a hero in pakistan by naming a missile fter him...Or Mughal destroyed 1000's of temples but still love the taj mahal

The same is with the muslims,sikhs,Xians,Parsi,Jains,Buddhist,and Jews of India .....


hope you were able to find your version of what my version is supposed to be from all this soup i wrote above.........:victory:
 
.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom