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What will be China's immigration policy?

No, just no. I would much prefer that kind of attitude is not brought into China.


What's wrong with his attitude? So you think China should kill its own offspring with one-Child policy and brag about how much population we have reduced, then import immigrants? How would you feel if a couple abort their own kids then adopt children from others? I just don't get it, are we living on the same planet?
 
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What's wrong with his attitude? So you think China should kill its own offspring with one-Child policy and brag about how much population we have reduced, then import immigrants? How would you feel if a couple abort their own kids then adopt children from others? I just don't get it, are we living on the same planet?

Look at South Korea, Japan, Thailand, and Vietnam's birthrate. None of them have one child policy and they are all below fertility replacement. They have adopted western lifestyles and South Korea and Japan are heavily urbanized.

You have still not responded to my post where I reminded you that the KMT's policies on affirmative action and minorities are the same as the CPC's
 
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@Okemos @szft517 @Sonyuke_Songpaisan @Speeder 2

Taiwan's Muslims struggle to survive

Taiwan Muslims' Struggle to Survive

Ma Chao-Yen

1. Introduction

With the ending of the cold war, under the banner of globalization and freedom, the West, led by the US and Europe, wishes to impose its culture, and social and economic systems on other countries, Muslim countries in particular. Modernization has become the excuse to overturn the tradition. The objective is for the West to control and monopolize the world resources. We need to understand that modernization is objective and relevant, and should not be defined purely based on scientific and economic achievements. Traditional value can be modified, and should not be denied and overturned. In the 21st century, with the advance in science and technology, and rapid changes in the social and economic development, a minority often faces the challenges of preserving its culture and tradition and at the same time copes with the rapid technology innovation and social economic development. History offers the best clue. From the study of the history, we can understand the situation of Muslim in Taiwan and assist them to overcome their difficulties.

2. Taiwan is a society of migration
Taiwan is an island located in the Pacific Rim. Spanish and Dutch briefly occupied the island. Dutch named Taiwan Formosa, a beautiful island. Later, Japan occupied the island for 51 years. However, for several hundred years since the Ming Dynasty, the development of Taiwan was mainly associated with the immigrants from Fukian Providence. In the 8th century during the Tong Dynasty, many Arabs and Persian merchants settled in Quanzhou, which was one of the four major seaports and a commercial center. As a result, Islam was spread to east coast cities in China as well as west cost cities in Taiwan such as Lukang, Beikaung, Danshui. At that time, most of the Muslims were fishermen and businessmen. Twice in Taiwan’s history, refugees from mainland China including Muslim escaped the collapse of the regimes by fleeing to the island of Formosa – a beautiful island. The first time occurred in 1661, led by Cheng Cheng-kung, after the fall of the Ming dynasty. The second migration took place in 1949, after Chiang Kaishek’s defeat by the Chinese Communists.In the 17th century, late Ming Dynasty and early Qin Dynasty, Muslim came to Taiwan with military. There were five major Muslim families (Pai, Ma, Kuo, King and Ding) settled on the island first. Due to the religion, their marriages were among themselves. Both Kuo and Ding families even traced back their family trees to Quanzhou, Fukien Province. Mosques were built in Taiwan at that time period.

3. The rise and fall of early Muslim in Taiwan
Due to lack of religious leaders and scholars, in the course of time, the descendants of those Muslim families drifted away from Islam. As one generation followed another, they became almost totally assimilated into Taiwanese society, adopting Taiwanese customs and the Taiwanese religion (an eclectic mixture of local spiritism, Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism). Cut off from effective contact with the large and vigorous Muslim community on the mainland, the Islamic faith on Taiwan simply atrophied. During half century’s (1895-1945) occupation by Japanese, the Taiwanese were discouraged from practicing "foreign" religions. The present-day descendants of the Muslim followers of Cheng Cheng-kung preserved some traces of Islamic practices. The Kuo family in Lukang, for example, does not include pork among its offering at the family shrine even though the family is not Muslim. Two families in Keelung place copies of the Holy Koran before the tablets of their ancestors. The present owners are not Muslims and do not read Arabic, but they honor a book held sacred by their forebears. Two or three families in Tainan observe funeral customs of Islamic origin including the ceremonial washing of the body and wrapping it carefully in white cloth—though in all other respects they are culturally Taiwanese. We regret that they are departed from the Islam.

4. The Contribution of the second wave of Muslim migrants from Mainland China
After W W II, Taiwan re-united with China and The Chinese Muslim Association was re-established in Taiwan. In 1947, Ahong Wang and Imam Chung together with some government officials, legislators and merchants moved to Taiwan with the KMT government. The first Mosque was established in LiShui Street of Taipei during that era. Several mosques funded by Muslim and donations from local and foreign friends were later built in Chungli, Taichung and KaohsiungIt. Cemeteries were constructed and regulated in a few major cities. As a result, Islam was recovering from the previous set back. With the support of the government, Muslim leaders and scholars, the idea of re-establishing ChenDar Muslim Former School was also discussed. However, due to various reasons, it was not implemented. The Chinese Muslim Association cultivates and maintains relations with Muslim leaders and groups throughout the world, particularly in the Middle East and in Southeast Asia. Working through its several local branches, departments and committees, the Association engages in many activities. It publishes a monthly magazine - “Islam in China” devoted to Muslim interests for more than 40 years. The Association, through its Overseas Affairs Commission, maintains lively contact with the World Muslim League and other international Islamic organizations. It also receives and entertains many foreign Muslim visitors to Taiwan. Occasionally, in cooperation with the government, the Association organizes goodwill missions to Muslim countries.Additionally, it provides assistance and support to the Muslims and youth by organizing annual Hajji pilgrim team, summer camp, Sunday school, scholarship, and other religious related activities. The Chinese Muslim Association contributes to the Muslim society and at the same time has important impact on the development of the Muslim community.

5. The Current Situation and the Difficulty of Muslims in Taiwan
Compared to 20,000 “the first generation” Muslims migrated to Taiwan in 1949, today about 50,000 - no more than 0.2 percent of Taiwanese populations are Muslims. Many of them are recent converts due to marring to Muslim. The reason for the low growth rate of Muslim is primarily due to a lacking of Muslim community. The major reason for Islam to exist in China over thousand years is owing to Muslim community and settlement around Mosques and family education and practice of Islam. In Taiwan, due to a lack of family religious education and biased education system, “freedom of belief” contributed to the deterioration of religion. The “second generation” of Muslims, around age 50’s, was isolated and unfamiliar with the Muslim community during their upbringing age caused their marriage to non-Muslims or converters. Therefore, the belief of the third and fourth generation of Muslims is even more difficult and controversial unless their great grand parents (first generation) were extremely religious. It is extremely painful for me to watch the family members of the deceased sitting in the audience seat during the funeral. Isn’t it one of the saddest things for Chinese to lose their decedent? According to the Holly Koran, each human being and race has its lifespan. Allah shall replace us once we disobey Allah. Life without belief and tradition is worse than dying since it is meaningless and worthless. It is scary to think about that the history of Lukang families may reoccur nowadays.

6. The Role and Mission of Muslim in Taiwan
It goes without saying that the first generation of Muslims built excellent facilities, but unable to establish religious and cultural infrastructure. The second generation while received excellent formal education, accomplished in their respective career and became members of middle income had earned very little about the religion. Some even denied themselves as Muslim. In discussions with Muslim scholars from Japan and South Korea, we realize that we have inherited wealth knowledge of religious scholarship waiting to be discovered.

Some people questioned why should we not to change during this changeable time? Some thought that we should have reached out to others. In fact, some people already abandoned their religious belief . Islam is not just a belief but also practice, a way of living, which was granted by Allah for us to live a peaceful and content life by disciplining our ethical behaviors in this complicated environment. As the natural rule, the second generation Muslims not only has the mission but also the responsibility to pass on the tradition to their young. We need to rejuvenate the aging organization and involve the younger generation to establish work plans for activities such as seminars, workshops, etc. to educate our brothers and sisters. Open Mosques to the society for better understanding and culture exchange. Other activities include sponsoring festivals, volunteering in community works, participating in local and international Muslim organizations, expanding the vision and horizon, and strengthening self-confidence. Most importantly, we need to enhance the education of young people, greater emphasis on religion, more discipline on personal life and let the Mosque become livelier. In the future, we may consider center for Islam, provide teacher trainings, and create a common market to promote the modernization of worldwide Muslim. As Muslim in Taiwan, we wish to become the bridge between Islam and Chinese culture. By working together of Confucius believe in world peace with Islam’s belief in social equality and justice, Islam will be the foundation for human civilization and peaceful society.

Where does it say that they think they are Arab or that their homeland is Arabia?

It is the non Muslim Hui like the Ding, Guo, Pu and other families who boast of their Arab or Persian ancestry and flaunt it. They are ancestor worshippers, Buddhists or Daoists, not Muslims.
 
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Isn't Mecca the most important place for a Muslim?

You know what homeland means?

It is the non Muslim Hui like the Ding, Guo, Pu and other families who boast of their Arab or Persian ancestry and flaunt it. They are ancestor worshippers, Buddhists or Daoists, not Muslims.

Those Buddhist and Daoist ancestor worshipping Hui in Quanzhou all get affirmative action and benefits from the CPC. They are not Muslim and refused to convert back to Islam but they like reminding everyone that their ancestors were Persians or Arabs.
 
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What does Mecca have to do with immigration in China?

He was just pointing out that Muslims consider Saudi Arabian cities more important than their own country. You can easily see this stated by many muslim posters on this forum.
 
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It will probably takes me a millions year to understand why a straight forward immigration issue got turned into religious between Arab, Christian, Muslim and Buddhist

Punch lines is, If China really do allow Immigrant later on in her history, they don't really care if they are Christian, Catholic , Jews, Islamic or Morman. If China want to stay unified ethnicity, then they will not accept any kind of Immigration.

It's simple as that, so people here simply suggest even if China do accept immigrant, it will be on religious basis but not ability basis?? That's quite stupid don't anyone think?

Enough of the religious talk, can we please get back on topic?
 
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He was just pointing out that Muslims consider Saudi Arabian cities more important than their own country. You can easily see this stated by many muslim posters on this forum.

No, they don't, except for extremists.

Muslims' reverence for Mecca is no different from Christians' feelings for Bethlehem, or Jews' for Jerusalem.
@Chinese-Dragon keeps going on and on about why he feels a special bond with India because of Buddhism. Should we conclude that he has more loyalty to India than to China?
 
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No, they don't, except for extremists.

Muslims' reverence for Mecca is no different from Christians' feelings for Bethlehem, or Jews' for Jerusalem.
@Chinese-Dragon keeps going on and on about why he feels a special bond with India because of Buddhism. Should we conclude that he has more loyalty to India than to China?

I do have a bond with Buddhism, but I am an Atheist. And Buddha was born in Nepal. :lol:

Hypothetically, if my country was to attack Bodh Gaya and the Bodhi Tree (like the Indian Muhajadeen did just a few days ago), there would be no question. I would always side with China, without any exception. It's not even close.

What about if they wanted to blow up Buddha statues, instead of building them? I would think it was stupid as hell (like the Taliban) but I would still side with my country 100%. Again, not even close.

Now what if again, hypothetically, my (or your) country were to attack the Kabaa in Mecca, which is the equivalent of the Bodhi tree to Buddhists. How many would still 100% side with their country over their religion?
 
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I do have a bond with Buddhism, but I am an Atheist. And Buddha was born in Nepal. :lol:

Doesn't matter whether your bond is due to culture or religion. The point is that it exists.

As for Nepal v/s India's role in Buddhism, we have all seen the debates here and they are irrelevant. Many important Buddhist sites are in India.

Hypothetically, if my country was to attack Bodh Gaya and the Bodhi Tree (like the Indian Muhajadeen did just a few days ago), there would be no question. I would always side with China, without any exception. It's not even close.

What about if they wanted to blow up Buddha statues, instead of building them? I would think it was stupid as hell (like the Taliban) but I would still side with my country 100%. Again, not even close.

Now what if again, hypothetically, my (or your) country were to attack the Kabaa in Mecca, which is the equivalent of the Bodhi tree to Buddhists. How many would still 100% side with their country over their religion?

Rather than debating hypotheticals, let's discuss actual statements.

You want China's foreign policy to be influenced by pro-Buddhist leanings instead of national interest or moral justification. You were defending the Buddhist monks' terror campaign against Muslims in Burma, and wanted China to side with the Buddhists, even though all neutral observers including the UN were condemning it.
 
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@Speeder 2 @Okemos @szft517

You are so proud of something the western man created. You go by the western man's standards. The only thing Chinese people need it not to believe in high IQ making you superior crap, but YOU have to be proud of YOUR background, ethnicity and national origin in itself. We do not need arguments about high IQ to justify banning immigration, and even right now I'm overlooking your hypocrisy on why you don't complain about Buddhism or Buddhist temples in China but you target another religion for being foreign.

We are proud of being Chinese and thats it. We do not give a damn about what other people think of us. We can ban immigration not because we have this stupid western made intelligence quotient but because we are proud of being Chines and NOT being Indians which is why we don't let Indians to flood into China. We wouldn't let Japanese in either even if they have a higher IQ.

Why do u educate the troll by spoon feeding him? Let him dig his own grave and we will have fun when he falls in it...so much for his high IQ and superiority complex.
 
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