What twin engine Jet Fighter Suits PAF Doctrine?

[Blue Marlin]

Thats makes my day....
During my service I met many air force guys and what I understand from them we can't afford or we don't need twin engine jets...reasons they stated Single engine half fuel, half maintenance cost and much cheaper to operate.

most importantly if we go for SU-35 we need to build whole support infrastructure, light maintenance facilities, crew training (in Russia) which would be a lot of burden on PAF and it may takes years to fully independently operates these Jets with our choice of weapons.

India is not digesting F-16 sale would they let Russians to sell latest Jets to Pakistan. I don't think so.

that all being true and all but what about twin engined jets that are not that thirsty jets like the eft, rafale and f18. compare that to the su30/35 its a winner as i recall you were on the prowl for some new birds in 2004 ish resulting in the f16 blk52+ and 36 being built but in 2005 there was the earthquake which limited funds for them and only resulted in only 18 being purchased. at the time it was the best option as you had comonality with the bird since the 80's so it made sense. now india is purchasing the rafale [ which would have been prefered over the blk 52] leaving your prime blk 52's in deep doo doo heck their mk2 and mig 29's [the upgraded ones] will give your f16s a run for its money.
i only see the j31 being inducted after 2020. i doubt you can afford to have an interm jet to fill the gap. the only bird there is is the typhoon but thats way more expensive than the rafale so it will continue to be a poster on the wall maybe a scale model too.

 

[Maj.Osmani]

that all being true and all but what about twin engined jets that are not that thirsty jets like the eft, rafale and f18. compare that to the su30/35 its a winner as i recall you were on the prowl for some new birds in 2004 ish resulting in the f16 blk52+ and 36 being built but in 2005 there was the earthquake which limited funds for them and only resulted in only 18 being purchased. at the time it was the best option as you had comonality with the bird since the 80's so it made sense. now india is purchasing the rafale [ which would have been prefered over the blk 52] leaving your prime blk 52's in deep doo doo heck their mk2 and mig 29's [the upgraded ones] will give your f16s a run for its money.
i only see the j31 being inducted after 2020. i doubt you can afford to have an interm jet to fill the gap. the only bird there is is the typhoon but thats way more expensive than the rafale so it will continue to be a poster on the wall maybe a scale model too.

Listen brother Rafale deal still not finalized and today our air force is in better position against IAF as compared to past, we are inducting JF-17 (now Block II) and we are not in a hurry, as our air chief stated in an interview we will go for 5th Gen fighter...so there is no need to induct 4.5 or 4 plus gen fighter on urgent basis...But we need long range fighters to safe guard our sea boundaries and Ports which may be covered by JF-17 with in-flight refueling capability.

For SU-35 we can't say anything how good it is...but as per previous experience and reports about SU-30 their fly by wire system requires huge maintenance after very few flight hours and for sure we don't need that.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Listen brother Rafale deal still not finalized and today our air force is in better position against IAF as compared to past, we are inducting JF-17 (now Block II) and we are not in a hurry, as our air chief stated in an interview we will go for 5th Gen fighter...so there is no need to induct 4.5 or 4 plus gen fighter on urgent basis...But we need long range fighters to safe guard our sea boundaries and Ports which may be covered by JF-17 with in-flight refueling capability.

For SU-35 we can't say anything how good it is...but as per previous experience and reports about SU-30 there fly by wore system requires huge maintenance after very few flight hours and for sure we don't need that.

i get the jf-17 is a good bird but its a lightweight fighter. as you mentioned you need a longrange fighter can you think of any jets avaliable that you can realistically buy that fits the role. i for one dont like the su35 but it would make a great plaftorm for pakistans air naval arm. i only see the j31 coming to pakistan beyond 2020 possibly the tfx.. who knows. any news on the block 3?
indian members are saying the rafale is being signed for this month even dp confirmed it.

 

[waz]

You know the reply to it right?

"We know how to get money and buy stuff whenever we want too"

It is all getting a bit too over board now and may need to be kept in check before more and more members are infected by this state of delusion. In fact, it is more then delusion, there are certain thing that we do not need, that do not even suite us or meet our requirements but since they look cool, we want to buy them.

Perhaps issue some warning, make some rules but let us try to keep things as close to reality as possible.

Sadly they don't seem to be looking at the economic prospects. Pakistan is growing, but at a slow and steady rate. The navy is mothballed and there are far greater priorities than buying swanky jets that Pakistan cannot simply afford, and that have no place in the PAF. The Russians are far too influenced by the Indians as well.
As for warnings, I can't warn opinion bro, no matter how out of touch it is.

 

[Maj.Osmani]

i get the jf-17 is a good bird but its a lightweight fighter. as you mentioned you need a longrange fighter can you think of any jets avaliable that you can realistically buy that fits the role. i for one dont like the su35 but it would make a great plaftorm for pakistans air naval arm. i only see the j31 coming to pakistan beyond 2020 possibly the tfx.. who knows. any news on the block 3?
indian members are saying the rafale is being signed for this month even dp confirmed it.

JF-17 with its good payload can play the naval role effectively. But as you ask if i have to make choice for twin engine the more realistic choice will be refurbished / upgraded F-18 from USA...Since we have long history of operating US jets they would be me more easily integrated in our fleet.

But it seems that PAF already decided to get F16 as many as possible till the 5th Gen fighter (J31) available.
.

 

[Zarvan]

You know the reply to it right?

"We know how to get money and buy stuff whenever we want too"

It is all getting a bit too over board now and may need to be kept in check before more and more members are infected by this state of delusion. In fact, it is more then delusion, there are certain thing that we do not need, that do not even suite us or meet our requirements but since they look cool, we want to buy them.

Perhaps issue some warning, make some rules but let us try to keep things as close to reality as possible.

The kind of weapons we are already acquiring we are not supposed to get them because we don't have money. But we are getting weapons so we are getting money from some where your denial won't change it. We are talking for SU-35 that I am more sure than ever before and you may hear about it in media in next few months @waz

 

[manojb]

One with American engine or Russian engine, nothing less... no chinese. They haven't mastered yet ,they still trying to steal and learn f16 engine..

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

I can't believe people are talking about the SU-35 when Pakistan couldn't afford to pay for the F-16's in full. The SU-35's are far more expensive and have no prior infrastructure in place. There has been nothing from the Russians either, aside from the rumours months ago.

The issue is not paying but look at the price of F-16's that were offered 8 for for almost 900 million. The Chinese deal of 24 SU-35 for 2 Billion is more than a bargain. That is almost 2 times the numbers that USA would have given for 2 billion.
Pakistan would initially go for a 3 billion deal if it does materialise.

Thats makes my day....
During my service I met many air force guys and what I understand from them we can't afford or we don't need twin engine jets...reasons they stated Single engine half fuel, half maintenance cost and much cheaper to operate.

most importantly if we go for SU-35 we need to build whole support infrastructure, light maintenance facilities, crew training (in Russia) which would be a lot of burden on PAF and it may takes years to fully independently operates these Jets with our choice of weapons.

India is not digesting F-16 sale would they let Russians to sell latest Jets to Pakistan. I don't think so.

The most important issue has not been stated...The Pilots flying the single engine aircraft log the actual flight time. Were as those who are flying multi engine have to divide it by the number of engines. This discourages them because they would have less flight time then those on single engined aircraft.

 

[Blue Marlin]

JF-17 with its good payload can play the naval role effectively. But as you ask if i have to make choice for twin engine the more realistic choice will be refurbished / upgraded F-18 from USA...Since we have long history of operating US jets they would be me more easily integrated in our fleet.

But it seems that PAF already decided to get F16 as many as possible till the 5th Gen fighter (J31) available.
.

indeed buying more f16'sand doing them up reminds me of your rose program nd upgrading the jf-17 will suffice untill the j-31 is ready

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

The kind of weapons we are already acquiring we are not supposed to get them because we don't have money. But we are getting weapons so we are getting money from some where your denial won't change it. We are talking for SU-35 that I am more sure than ever before and you may hear about it in media in next few months @waz

You also stated the Mig-35's are also being considered but PAf had rejected them earlier so is there any new evaluation...If there is then where was this done?

 

[Zarvan]

You also stated the Mig-35's are also being considered but PAf had rejected them earlier so is there any new evaluation...If there is then where was this done?

Latest reports suggest that Pakistan is looking at both and one can be selected

 

[waz]

The kind of weapons we are already acquiring we are not supposed to get them because we don't have money. But we are getting weapons so we are getting money from some where your denial won't change it. We are talking for SU-35 that I am more sure than ever before and you may hear about it in media in next few months @waz

Pakistan doesn't have the money. Look at the defence budget currently and Pakistan is having to seriously think of opportunity cost. There will be no SU-35.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Latest reports suggest that Pakistan is looking at both and one can be selected

Still this does not answer my question... Evaluation of Mig -35's is being based on old data or they have reevaluated it...

 

[waz]

The issue is not paying but look at the price of F-16's that were offered 8 for for almost 900 million. The Chinese deal of 24 SU-35 for 2 Billion is more than a bargain. That is almost 2 times the numbers that USA would have given for 2 billion.
Pakistan would initially go for a 3 billion deal if it does materialise.

The issue is funds according to the government. As for the SU-35 deal, that's Chinese and the Chinese already have significant infrastructure in place for the aircraft. There has not been any formal offer from Russia either to Pakistan.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

i get the jf-17 is a good bird but its a lightweight fighter. as you mentioned you need a longrange fighter can you think of any jets avaliable that you can realistically buy that fits the role. i for one dont like the su35 but it would make a great plaftorm for pakistans air naval arm. i only see the j31 coming to pakistan beyond 2020 possibly the tfx.. who knows. any news on the block 3?
indian members are saying the rafale is being signed for this month even dp confirmed it.

Can Rafale or EFT cost similar to the SU-35 ? 24 aircraft for 2 billion as offered to China.

I do not think this is possible hence it is very simple that Pakistan only has that option...Though I would have Personally liked EFT to be part of PAF.

The issue is funds according to the government. As for the SU-35 deal, that's Chinese and the Chinese already have significant infrastructure in place for the aircraft. There has not been any formal offer from Russia either to Pakistan.

There was a report earlier that China is planning to make an airport near China and Pakistan border which would be used by both PLAAF and PAF jointly.

If this is true then China would establish infrastructure PAF would only require to purchase some aircraft. There are pictures of PAF pilots and other personnel who have been flying the Flankers in China hence they are trained...

What could happen in future we can not be sure.