What twin engine Jet Fighter Suits PAF Doctrine?

[tarrar]

I don't see PAF going for F/A18 as US will be reluctant in selling those air craft to Pakistan, the reason is quiet simple, US is not selling the good hardware to Pakistan.

As far as J31 is concerned the aircraft is not yet ready & I am looking at least 5-8 years before the aircraft is inducted in to PLAAF, also there is another question on the performance of J31, it is still unknown & it will take time before we come to know about it. Keep in mind that just because the aircraft looks similar to F22, so it does not mean J31 will perform like F22, the first & the major difference is already visible, the engine & amazing design of F22's engine.

So in my opinion PAF will have to go for SU35, the performance is amazing, so SU35 will serve really well in PAF & SU35 will give PAF to target even further as it is a long range air craft as compared to PAF's F16 & JF17.

 

[Manticore]

Need stealth and slightly longer range? You might be able to hit 2 birds with 1 stone with the under development j31. The question is how much range does it have and development time. If you can get a stealth with greater range than the f16 then it should be pursued. Instead of having 2sq of say su35 and 2sq of 5th gen why dont have 4sq of 5th gen with a common rd93?

In the future it will not only be a battle of fighters with longer loiter time but the generation gap caused by introduction of 5th gen in south east asia will be be a morale booster over the enemy. Does paf have the money to operate 4 different type of platforms? Jft, f16s, double engine, fifth gen?

I think paf should ditch a 4+ gen double engine fighter in favour of fifth gen fighter with longer range than the f16. If this target cant be met in the next decade, then we will be in a doldrum and will have to look for alternatives.

In that case it will be toss between typoon [saudia operates it] and su series [china operates it]. What would be ideal if fifth gen doesnt get inducted in the next decade would be a fighter which is operated by friendly countries from where we can get spares/training

Getting old f16s and upgrading them should be done in the meanwhile

 

[HAIDER]

This son of gun shot down Turkish F16D ...Magic 550 II.....Pak really need something superior then F16

Everyone forgot JH7B ?

@MastanKhan

Sent for burial ...white elephant...

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Super Hornet is the best....it knock down every single one leaves the ground


PAKISTAN/PORTUGAL - Pakistan interested in Portuguese F18 fighter jets for sale
Released on 2013-03-11 00:00 GMT

ets for sale


Pakistan interested in Portuguese F18 fighter jets for sale

Excerpt from report by Portuguese newspaper Publico website on 12 July

[Lusa report: "Pakistan Interested in Acquiring Country's F18 Fighter
Jets"]

Portugal is selling 10 F16 fighter jets and Pakistan's Air Force
"requested information" about these aircraft, says the Report on the
Implementation of the 2010 Military Planning Law.

Portugal made "contacts with several international entities that are
potentially interested," and Pakistan's Air Force "showed interest in
visiting" Portugal to assess the F16 fighter jets that are on sale,
according to the report to which Lusa had access.

The document also mentions that Pakistan "had requested information
about the structural configuration and the aircraft upgrades," and so
the Portuguese state sent "the information requested" and suggested
"possible dates for the visit to OGMA (Aeronautics Industry of
Portugal)."

As well as the 10 F16 fighter jets, Portugal is also aiming to sell
eight Puma helicopters and 10 C212 Aviocar planes, "which are about to
be or have already been withdrawn from service," according to the
report.

According to that same report, the rate of financial compliance with the
Military Planning Law (LPM) last year was 88.6 per cent, corresponding
to 288 million euros, according to the implementation report of 2010
that Lusa had access to.

The Navy spent the most, 103 million euros. It was followed by the
Central Support Services (74.1 million euros), the Army (60.4 million),
the Air Force (45.7 million), and the General Staff of the Armed Forces
(4.8 million). [Passage omitted: on compliance with military planning
law, covered by referent item]

Lack of Revenues Stops Modernization of C130

The modernization of six Air Force military transport aircraft has been
on hold for over two years "due to lack of funding," and it is dependent
on the sale of the PUMA helicopters, the report said. The request for
the modernization of the planes, which already suffer flight limitations
in European air space and which is expected to cost 45 million euros at
the most, was presented in April 2009 to then National Defence Minister
Nuno Severiano Teixeira.

The execution of this project "depends on the sale of the PUMA
helicopters" (SA-330 PUMA), which were taken out of service after the
purchase of the new helicopters, currently in service at the Air Force
EH-101.

Source: Publico website, Lisbon, in Portuguese 12 Jul 11

BBC Mon EU1 EuroPol SA1 SAsPol kk

you are quoting some over 3 year old news that never got anywhere

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

When facing an enemy the size of india----where the bottom 2/3rds won't even feel the pain of war---pakistan is in a losing preposition---it will actually be only 1/8th of india directly effected with a war with pakistan.

Now change the prepopsition of 60-80 % of india under strike range thru conventional means---we have a different ball game.

A deep strike force---will split up the indian air force---it will take away its concentration away from punjab and spread it put wider over a larger area----.

By releasing the pressure over western punjab---Paf will have more flexibility and ability to strike and dominate.

J31 needs a BVR truck to be the launch platform for the weapons----.

 

[HAIDER]

you are quoting some over 3 year old news that never got anywhere

Yes, it seems PAF is looking for US made long range multi role.

Hi,

When facing an enemy the size of india----where the bottom 2/3rds won't even feel the pain of war---pakistan is in a losing preposition---it will actually be only 1/8th of india directly effected with a war with pakistan.

Now change the prepopsition of 60-80 % of india under strike range thru conventional means---we have a different ball game.

A deep strike force---will split up the indian air force---it will take away its concentration away from punjab and spread it put wider over a larger area----.

By releasing the pressure over western punjab---Paf will have more flexibility and ability to strike and dominate.

J31 needs a BVR truck to be the launch platform for the weapons----.

J31 is ok plane, it will take little while to fully mature. This plane has smoky RD93 , and also has some weight related issues. So, J31 won't be in Pak inventory next 5 years. PAF is very picky. They do all modernization at Chinese factory.

 

[CHD]

what about j-20?

 

[Lightning Soul]

I think first we need to analyze why we need a twin-engine fighter? -Yes because it will have extended range and load but for which role?
IMO Pakistan requires long range fighter jets to defend our maritime borders and deal with a intimidating IN Air power.
JF-17 for that matter will only be good for coastal defence but for striking out the adversary jets and attacking the ships would be an uphill task.

So which twin-engine jets don't stand a chance (in our case):
F-18 - Great Aircraft for Naval role but too many strings attached
Typhoon -way expensive and still possibility of restrictions
Rafale -not a chance after Indian MMRCA deal
Mig-29K -same reason IAF already have them + not relatively gives much additional capabilities over others in discussion
J-11 -cannot be exported by China

So to cut it short the only possible option left seems to be of either Su-35 or JH-7B
Su-35 -Seems possible if the deal is handled out well from diplomatic point of view. An order in small numbers say 8 or complete squadron should be the start (not the whole requirement order placed all at once which i think would be about 2-3 Squadrons) then gradually increase the orders in upcoming years. Reason would be that Russia would have an excuse to Indian lobby that such small order would not change the balance of the region and our small budget can afford to have a squadron strength or smaller no of Su-35s
JH-7B -can be the next best option. No strings attached. Have a decent load and range. Can utilize existing Chinese weapons for naval role. Only problem would be is that would it have room to be upgraded according to PAF requirements and remain useful for next 15-20 years?

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Those talking about the J31-----have you kids ever heard the term INTEGRATION-----.

The J31 is 5---7 years away---. After you induct it---now you have to integrate it---LEARN TO OPERATE this aircraft----another 8---12 years time period. A totally new aircraft---a first time aircraft---a technology of a totally new dimension----and if you thought---switching from regular windows to windows 8 was difficult and time consuming and pi-ssed off customers---the 5th gen would have you come out with new terminologies.

I mean to say---you kids talk about getting a 5th gen---like it is going to the local paaan beeri shop on the corner and jerking off with your buddies---.

You kids have the example staring right at your faces---of that of the JF 17----pilots just barely starting showing confidence in it---and then the new version with aesa is going to come out and new missiles---irst and it will start all over---what---the learning curve---.

 

[Ultima Thule]

what about j-20?

It is ban for exports just like F-22

 

[MastanKhan]

I think first we need to analyze why we need a twin-engine fighter? -Yes because it will have extended range and load but for which role?
IMO Pakistan requires long range fighter jets to defend our maritime borders and deal with a intimidating IN Air power.
JF-17 for that matter will only be good for coastal defence but for striking out the adversary jets and attacking the ships would be an uphill task.

So which twin-engine jets don't stand a chance (in our case):
F-18 - Great Aircraft for Naval role but too many strings attached
Typhoon -way expensive and still possibility of restrictions
Rafale -not a chance after Indian MMRCA deal
Mig-29K -same reason IAF already have them + not relatively gives much additional capabilities over others in discussion
J-11 -cannot be exported by China

So to cut it short the only possible option left seems to be of either Su-35 or JH-7B
Su-35 -Seems possible if the deal is handled out well from diplomatic point of view. An order in small numbers say 8 or complete squadron should be the start (not the whole requirement order placed all at once which i think would be about 2-3 Squadrons) then gradually increase the orders in upcoming years. Reason would be that Russia would have an excuse to Indian lobby that such small order would not change the balance of the region and our small budget can afford to have a squadron strength or smaller no of Su-35s
JH-7B -can be the next best option. No strings attached. Have a decent load and range. Can utilize existing Chinese weapons for naval role. Only problem would be is that would it have room to be upgraded according to PAF requirements and remain useful for next 15-20 years?

Hi,

Thank you for your post---. They heavy aircraft must have no strings attached to it---. As it must have long legs---so it must also have buddy refuelling capabilities as well---which it can perform while doing its growler type duties for JF17's and F16's.

The tankers will be taken out very quick---or will have to fly the farthest to refuel---.

SU35 is an excellent aircraft---but with the total weapons package---the price would skyrocket----. So---in my book---the JH7B is the bets buy---.

With the upgraded BLK3 JF17----the JH7B with similar technology---both the aircraft get integrated at a formidable pace---with same weapons and electronics---both will compliment each other very well.

 

[CHD]

It is ban for exports just like F-22

but still PAF should discuss this with chinese as PAF options are very limited and Pakistans interest is china interest too

 

[wiseone2]

J-11 is out of question as its not allow to export. J-31 is not really a heavy load, long legged aircraft.

That left Su-35 as the best candidate for PAF. F/A-18 is not really long legged and since its sanction prone. That will put it out of question.

f/a-18 super hornet will not be available for pakistan

 

[MastanKhan]

f/a-18 super hornet will not be available for pakistan

So---you have found this thread---. @Irfan Baloch please take this kid under your wings----

 

[mingle]

f/a-18 super hornet will not be available for pakistan

Why not ?they sold us latest F16s then why not F18 ?i think ot would be best bet 25 to 35 for navy aviation with same engine F16s flexable payments good for Boeing too.Cheif test guy is canadian Ricardo Traven .i see a shot here or then chines option left .