What role could PAF have played in the Kargil war??

[Stephen Cohen]

The Indian army's reaction was far swifter and far stronger than Pakistan had calculated.

Not just the Army's response but ALL three services responded with Utmost willingness
and preparedness

Indian navy's swift deployment Outside Karachi Harbour simply stunned Pakistani navy

 

[313baberali]

PAF was actually involved in that war

hmm kargil, ? i have some self experiences to share ,two PAF jets(district Attock in a valley between mountains 10:00am ) heading east ,very low altitude flying ,speed and sound almost breaking everything.(next day news came Pakistan shoot down indian gets.) .That was a real face of war also shows PAF strength

i remember we drop one Pak Army to his home ,he just came for a night,yes Mujahideens are fully with PAK Army,mostly a officer teach them where to go and how ,also establishing posts in enemy area.

Musharaf plan was excellent to cut the supply line,but what happen next,remains a mestry ever

 

[ayesha.a]

Air Force was brought in to stop the supplies from reaching these positions. It was assumed that Pakistan Army was supplying them and hence some aircraft entered Pakistan Air Space. After this they were warned that they should not do this again but the very next day they did it again and they also fired on the Pakistani positions hence they were shot down. After this the Airforce did not violate Pakistani Airspace.

This is patently untrue, and a complete fabrication.

The destruction of Muntho Dhalo ammo dumps and supply lines inside Pakistan happened way later in the war, a long time AFTER India lost aircrafts to MANPADS. It was only when one chopper and one low flying Jaguar were shot down by stingers/anzas, that India realized how well equipped the intruders were. After that IAF immediately changed strategy, and used high flying Mirages and LGBs, with Mig-29s giving fighter cover. That ensured they could stay out of range of the MANPADs, and that PAF would not shoot down the strike aircrafts.

The sequence of events happened opposite of how you claimed.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@ayesha.a

The role of Indian Navy in delivering a Message during the Kargil war
is very significant -- which came to be known much later

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-indian-navy-celebrates-its-silent-kargil-victory-12113

"Thirty Indian Naval ships parked themselves outside Karachi. Just 13 nautical miles from the harbour, in the contiguous waters. It did the trick. It conveyed to Pakistan what the warfare in Himalayas and diplomatic channels could not spell out. They started pulling out of Kargil."

 

[ayesha.a]

Musharaf plan was excellent to cut the supply line,but what happen next,remains a mestry ever

Its quite simple, what happened after - India retaliated. Mushy did not expect the retaliation to be so swift and on such a large scale. Read the globalsecurity article I linked above.

Another factor was that they expected local support from Indian Kashmiris, but like 1965, that did not materialize.

Two miscalculations. That "excellent" in your sentence doesn't hold true.

India had to use Air Force and heavy artillary because they had no choice.

India used air force and artillery, because we had that choice.

You always use everything you have, in the way that maximizes your chances of victory. If Pak did not expect India to use either, that was seriously horrible planning.

 

[deckingraj]

Musharaf was seriously a dumb*** to go ahead with the plan, without informing the civilian govt. PAF chief , PN chief etc etc, in any other country he'd have got court martialed except for Pakistan where he became the President of the country soon after war (where he was solely responsible for putting the lives of Pak soldiers on the line for basically nothing)..


I think if Kargil was to happen, it should've been years ago prolly in the Zia era (when Siachin dispute was hot) with proper planning and tactics involving all units .

Negative...you were involved in AF then and there was no way you could have afford it...Russia would have loved it though...

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Actually both armies had that "habit", and that was a tacit understanding between the two, that Pakistan deliberately violated. You can read that on any neutral source, and even Pakistani ones.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/kargil-99.htm



The Indian army's reaction was far swifter and far stronger than Pakistan had calculated.

The problem is that deals between militarises of two countries do not apply to rogue outfits like both Pakistan and India have historically faced. Hence one must be more attentive to what they do in regards to protecting their respected countries.

If we take an example of two persons fighting then we have to appreciate the skills of both fighters and see how they try to over power and out smart the other. This is the norm over time and memorial. Blaming the other side without accepting that there were faults within would always lead to mistrust. This unfortunately becomes more critical when both the enemies are hell bent on eradicating the other combined with aggression and emotional sentiments.

 

[CHI RULES]

Sir,

Once you learn that remarks are remarks and there is nothing childish about any remark---then you will find new horizons opening up for you.

It is a surprise that in my 34 years in the U S---I have not heard that term from whites---blacks or Latinos.

Sir with due respect in your past post u used word moron for PAF officials which is quite offend able perhaps not in Us but in Pak some remarks are not remarks they mean much more.

The crux of above post was to rectify only one point that military purchases decision lies with Ministry of Defense in Pakistan off course after approval from PM and funds released by Ministry of Finance. Hope u get my point because there are many people on this forum who either have their closest ones in Military/defense sector or have served there.
So despite facing hardships they are ready to shed their own lives for this country same is case more or less with our Military personnel. So please use some soft language as morons are morons no matter where they are.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Musharaf plan was excellent to cut the supply line,but what happen next,remains a mestry ever

Theoretically it was a Brilliant plan -No doubt -- To Raise the Spectre of Nuclear war
and Get a Cease fire declared so that the LOC could be changed surreptitiously

But India foiled his plans by Fighting with MAXIMUM restraint

We proved that we were NOT escalating but just taking back our territory
Hence the Global fear of Nuclear war went away

We had to do this because USA was STILL Pakistan's Ally

But in the process we suffered more casualties

 

[313baberali]

Its quite simple, what happened after - India retaliated. Mushy did not expect the retaliation to be so swift and on such a large scale. Read the globalsecurity article I linked above.

Another factor was that they expected local support from Indian Kashmiris, but like 1965, that did not materialize.

Two miscalculations. That "excellent" in your sentence doesn't hold true.



India used air force and artillery, because we had that choice.

You always use everything you have, in the way that maximizes your chances of victory. If Pak did not expect India to use either, that was seriously horrible planning.

THANKS FOR NOT NOTICING about few scrap fallen in PAKISTAN TERRITORY

 

[deckingraj]

It would have gone Nuclear as soon as Actual line of Control was violated. Both India and Pakistan did not want that because it was too soon after the declaration of becoming Nuclear States.

Nopes...it would not have...Pakistan would have found itself under severe diplomatic pressure because everyone including china considered you guys as the aggressor...secondly both sides hardly had few bombs and there was no way they could have severely damaged the capacity of opposite side to retaliate...

The Indian lost more men because they did not want to open an all out war. The Indian Army was forced to send troops up knowing that they would encounter heavy resistance.

Are you sure about that? We know how many chaps we lost...do you even know how many from your side?? keep in mind once Bofors and IAF joined in your chaps were sitting ducks!!

Pakistan always said that they did not have hand in this operation and the Kashmiri Freedom fighters were the ones that had attacked and taken control of the Indian check posts. The moment the munition ended that was the time the Indian took these check posts back. If PAF and Pakistan Army would have been involved directly then this would have been not the case and the war would have persisted over a longer period. One that was unacceptable to both parties because it brought them closer to a Nuclear conflict day by day.

Fair enough...

 

[313baberali]

Nuclear war

NO NEED OF SPECTRE FOR THING which both countries having for not fertilizing plants

 

[ayesha.a]

The problem is that deals between militarises of two countries do not apply to rogue outfits like both Pakistan and India have historically faced. Hence one must be more attentive to what they do in regards to protecting their respected countries.

If we take an example of two persons fighting then we have to appreciate the skills of both fighters and see how they try to over power and out smart the other. This is the norm over time and memorial. Blaming the other side without accepting that there were faults within would always lead to mistrust. This unfortunately becomes more critical when both the enemies are hell bent on eradicating the other combined with aggression and emotional sentiments.

I'm not really blaming PA, at least that wasn't the point. I think that depends on your perspective - some people would say it was treacherous and perfidious of PA to violate an agreement, others would say it was a smart move to seize initiative and deceive the enemy. You could argue either side.

Similarly you could take two different positions about IA - that they were the victims of treachery, or that they should have kept that possibility in mind. Again, it would depend on whom you ask.

I was just pointing out that the statement I responded to, that the IA had a practice of abandoning posts, and "no other army does that", was untrue. Both PA and IA used to do that, and there was an understanding to that effect.

 

[Super Falcon]

Problem is with PAF they get over confidence even now we lack a first see first kill thing in.paf F 16 radars can't see and lock enemies in air before our enemies do

 

[deckingraj]

Theoretically it was a Brilliant plan -No doubt -- To Raise the Spectre of Nuclear war
and Get a Cease fire declared so that the LOC could be changed surreptitiously

But India foiled his plans by Fighting with MAXIMUM restraint

We proved that we were NOT escalating but just taking back our territory
Hence the Global fear of Nuclear war went away

We had to do this because USA was STILL Pakistan's Ally

But in the process we suffered more casualties

Don't you think both the bold lines are contradictory? Plan was the most horrible as it simply did not take geo-politics in account...If your all weather friend is not able to support you on some plan which is against one of your(read china) potential rival then that plan is ridiculous to start with...no?? I am not even talking about how PAF, PN had no clue...