What is your idea about the possibility of secularism in Iran?

[Ir.Tab.]

secularism is a word used by people when they want their country to become secular like west. We do not want westernised Iran.

So lets to talk this way: How about a free of ideology government but not a westernized one!

there are problems in Iran such a having something like a supreme leader in this day and age is just not right. I mean this is not 500 Bc, back them Persia had kings like Cyrus but now 2500 years later? come on, we re suppose to move on.

So, you agree

Also in Iran people are kind of forced to be muslim, for example Muslims cannot change their religion, non-Muslims are discriminated against and so on. Islam is forced on Iranians by the regime, I am not saying there are no muslims in Iran, of course there, but there are alot of non-Mulims like myself and ALL of my friends here at uni. My mother is however religious and my father (May he R.I.P) was a non believer.

So, you agree

I have been following this forum for a while now, and I have to say Irtab jan you're someone who is trying to force his own love for turkic culture on the rest of azeri people and paint them with the same brush.

I doubt if you have only followed me! We have had lots of banned "loved to be from tabriz" members up to date!

so You yourself are not exactly a secular person are you?

So, the supporters of secularism are in need of your approval!

People in Iran are proud of their ancient Iranic culture, if you like a non-Persian culture then why do you want to force it on people of Iran? Baradar, I am half azeri myself and half shirazi but not for a second do I doubt my Iranic culture. I mean Turkic culture itself is a mixture of Persian,Indian and arab culture anyway.

I am all Turkic with Iranian nationality. Although I respect persian history, I will never get emotional with that. The concept of nationality has limited relation with history. History is very uncertain and has it's limitations. What is your problem with Turkic Iranians?

So instead of creating a thread like this asking our ideas of a secular Iran, say why you want secular Iran. You want to split Iran into Persian, azeris,Turk, lurs and others? why are you trying to create division? baradare man, You do not represent azeris, our supreme leader and many other top officials are azeri or part azeri and they do not share you view.

Is there anybody in this forum who expects Iranian supreme leader to be a supporter of secularism? The reason that our political arena is so divided today is not a forum poster but selfish attitude of the one who follows monopoly!

It seems you have been brainwashed by pan-Turkism and not long ago you threatened to back pan-turks when you and another member (Kollang) were arguing.

To prove I am a racist you should provide your supports. In recent thread in Turkish section I was accused to be an anti-Turk although I never accept that one, too.

Apparently they failed to understand if a nation covers it's problem, the problem will still exist. The only difference is that the others will solve it for them. But the interest of whom the others will consider is questionable.

To all friend who are reading this thread, remember no one is forced to stay in Iran. If They have problems with Iran, and want to act like a Turk or a westerner, then they can pack up and get out of Iran because they do not deserve to be in Iran.

Unbelievable resemblance with this:
[تهران |کاخِ نیاوران | ۱۱ اسفند ۱۳۵۳] |شاهنشاه چنین* فرمودند:

«... کسی که وارد این تشکیلات سیاسی نشود و معتقد و مومن باین ۳ اصلی که من گفتم نباشد ۲ راه برایش وجود دارد یا یک فردی است متعلق* به یک تشکیلات غیر قانونی یعنی باصطلاح خودمان* توده*ای. یعنی باز باصطلاح خودمان و با قدرت* اثبات، بی*وطن. او جایش یا در زندان ایران* است، یا اگر بخواهد فردا با کمال میل بدون* اخذ حق عوارضی، گذرنامه را در دستش می*گذاریم* و به* هر*جائی که دلش می*خواهد برود چون ایرانی* که نیست، وطن که ندارد و عملیاتش هم که قانونی* نیست، غیر قانونی است و قانون هم مجازاتش را معین کرده است...»

Iran is home of the great kuroshe kabir (Cyrus the great), he made our country great and in his memory we will not allow our culture to be changed.

Cyrus the great was part of Iran's history as the leader of persians who currently live within the borders of Iran. Iran is much more than those respectful concepts. You should revise your understanding of nationality.

 

[Shahin Vatani]

Cyrus the great was part of Iran's history as the leader of persian who currently live within the borders of Iran. Iran is much more than those respectful concepts. You should revise your understanding of nationality.

Well this is going a bit off-topic but I have to clarify.

Cyrus the Great wasn't just leader of Persians. He was born to a Persian father and a Mede mother, and was the ruler of the second ever united Iran (after the Median empire). This is the largest the empire got under him:

 

[Iran land of Aryans]

When did I say I have something against Turks? If you want to be a Turk then why do act like You're Iranian?
Iranians are Iranic people, but people who are non Iranic cannot be called Iranian even IF they are born in Iran. If you really live in Iran then you should know this. My problem is the fact you have a ulterior motive by opening threads like this, you are trying to spread your pan-turkism my friend.
Iran has problems, but biggest one is allowing pan-turks to spread their ideology in Iran.

I find it Ironic that someone who is trying to force his Turkic identity on all azeris is talking about secularity.

 

[Ir.Tab.]

When did I say I have something against Turks? If you want to be a Turk then why do act like You're Iranian?

Because I am an Iranian Turk. This is my beloved country. They are my beloved brothers and sisters. I do not see any conflict between them. After Ataturk (the secularist!), this nation is our best neighbor up to date. You should not ignore 75 million brothers just because of rare race supporters.

Iranians are Iranic people, but people are non Iranic cannot be called Iranian even IF they are born in Iran. If you really live in Iran then you should know this.

No, I do not know. Where is the definition of "Iranic people" in our constitution? Where does it say people of Turkic race can not be Iranian?

My problem is that fact you have a ulterior motive by opening threads like this, you are trying to spread your pan-turkism my friend.

I am not responsible for your ulterior motive, I am responsible for the contents of my posts. Please provide my racist posts.

Iran has problems, but biggest one is allowing pan-turks to spread their ideology in Iran.

The biggest one are the people who do not tolerate others.

I find it Ironic that someone who is trying to force his Turkic identity on all azeris is talking about secularity.

I think, now, this is you to want derail this thread to an ethnic conflict!

 

[Iran land of Aryans]

Ir tab If you loved Iran then you would not be trying to change it's history. Turks were simply invaders in our history, now all of a sudden I am meant to believe they are the ancient people of Azerbaijan? You are of the 1% of azeris who claim to be Turks. The rest of azeri are very nationalistic towards Persian culture and history and never claim to be another race like you, same with Kurds and lurs. I was going to post a picture of 3 kurds saluting the tomb of cyrus the great but I am not allowed to post links yet.

My point to you is this, I have no hate for Turks or anyone else, but Iranians will not sit back whilst people like you try to sneakily change Iran great history. You "secularity plan" is none existence because your problems is with Iran's historical Persian identity, you want to change that. Over the dead body of the 99% of Iran who are Iranic will you pan Turks achieve that. If you have a problems with Iran's history, then why don't you move to Turkey? what aspect of Iran do you relate to? because you certainly don't relate to it's identity.

 

[Serpentine]

Ir tab If you loved Iran then you would not be trying to change it's history. Turks were simply invaders in our history, now all of a sudden I am meant to believe they are the ancient people of Azerbaijan? You are of the 1% of azeris who claim to be Turks. The rest of azeri are very nationalistic towards Persian culture and history and never claim to be another race like you, same with Kurds and lurs. I was going to post a picture of 3 kurds saluting the tomb of cyrus the great but I am not allowed to post links yet.

My point to you is this, I have no hate for Turks or anyone else, but Iranians will not sit back whilst people like you try to sneakily change Iran great history. You "secularity plan" is none existence because your problems is with Iran's historical Persian identity, you want to change that. Over the dead body of the 99% of Iran who are Iranic will you pan Turks achieve that. If you have a problems with Iran's history, then why don't you move to Turkey? what aspect of Iran do you relate to? because you certainly don't relate to it's identity.

What's the point of this argument?
Not you you don't live in Tabriz, but it seems you are not even in Iran.
How many Azeris have you had contact with nearly? Most of them call themselves Turks, and there is no problem in that.
Also, I don't get that 'Iranic' part.Can you define it? Everyone who lives in Iran and believes in its flag is Iranic to me. Show me a period of history that Iran has been totally Persian.We are a multi-ethnical country, like many other countries.But unlike Europeans who learned how to deal with it, we are still fighting like stone era people.That's why ME is a mess today.This arguments and ways of thinking, not only won't help Iran, but will destroy it.But Thank God, I'm sure this school of thought is absolute minority in Iran.
The era of ultra nationalism was buried in 20th century.Get over it.
I know many (literally many) Azeris as my friends and even in my family, and they are as patriotic and Iranian as rest of the country.
If we want to build this country and make it what it truly deserves, every 'Iranian' : Persians,Turks, Lurs, Kurds,Arabs and others should hold each other's hands and do it,it's not possible with these childish fights.We should get over races, and stick to nationality.Look at America for God's sake. American 'race' is a meaningless term, and it has no bright history, look where they are and where we (Middle East) are today.

 

[Ir.Tab.]

Ir tab If you loved Iran then you would not be trying to change it's history.

I just said a fact that current mother tongue of Azeries is a branch of Turkic language. When I tried to change history. To be honest, the history when the population of the world was less than 100 million never could represent current situation in Iran.

Turks were simply invaders in our history, now all of a sudden I am meant to believe they are the ancient people of Azerbaijan? You are of the 1% of azeris who claim to be Turks. The rest of azeri are very nationalistic towards Persian culture and history and never claim to be another race like you, same with Kurds and lurs.

Even if they are not ancient people of Azerbaijan, that wont change the fact that they are there now! and the modern human societies are based on current facts not history

I was going to post a picture of 3 kurds saluting the tomb of cyrus the great but I am not allowed to post links yet.

I have a huge respect to your history but I am not gonna worship it. I have my reasons for that.

My point to you is this, I have no hate for Turks or anyone else, but Iranians will not sit back whilst people like you try to sneakily change Iran great history.

History is your logic. I have nothing to do with history.

You "secularity plan" is none existence because your problems is with Iran's historical Persian identity, you want to change that. Over the dead body of the 99% of Iran who are Iranic will you pan Turks achieve that.

And in my opinion you are an extreme religious one who, in skin of a nationalist, tries to find some persian supporters.

If you have a problems with Iran's history, then why don't you move to Turkey? what aspect of Iran do you relate to? because you certainly don't relate to it's identity.

This is your idea, extremely matching with the speeches of pan-Turks.

 

[ihealugo]

i think the possibilty for iran is just about 20 % at it's best , and it's just because of my view from iranian people and their social structure .

nothing more, nothing less...

 

[Ir.Tab.]

my view from iranian people and their social structure.

It could be true and interesting but we can not judge it before you provide us additional information about red colored part.

 

[ihealugo]

i don't have enough energy now , i will tell it maybe in 10-12 hours later it may take a long time ...

 

[Serpentine]

What is your problems with Ir.Tab?why don't you leave him?He has his own opinions and respects others and ansewers them,but some others only bash him.Can't you just discuss the topic?

 

[Ir.Tab.]

I don't understand this whole Azeri hype anymore. The Turks on this forum brought this discussion up, and we only show insecurity when we react on it. Let them talk. We know better.

please in related topic only, this thread title is "What is your idea about the possibility of secularism in Iran?"
Any off topic post will be reported.

 

[ihealugo]

in fact a secular government is not related to the cultural - religious structure .
even in Iran there was always secular governments ( with old meaning) except ghajars and safavids . but in all of the cases both people and kings had beliefs in religion but the government was secular .
even there was something like secularism idea for revolution but when it came to the case of Velaiat Faghih , many things was changed by the will of the people.

also we have different secularism....
also it's not hard to establish a secular government with the meaning of a government without religion .even now the governments are approaching this idea , but this mostly hurt the religiouse people and the "Olama" + PEOPLE ! and when i see that these secular things of government hurt the people so the people won't accept it ...

 

[Shahin Vatani]

also it's not hard to establish a secular government with the meaning of a government without religion .even now the governments are approaching this idea , but this mostly hurt the religiouse people and the "Olama" + PEOPLE ! and when i see that these secular things of government hurt the people so the people won't accept it ...

Well, one hypothetical way to get around that would be to do a survey. See how many people in the country would actually favour a secular government over a religious one.

Right now we are all guessing as to what percentage of people favour what. The only way we know for sure is if there is a nationwide survey done.

 

[Surenas]

please in related topic only, this thread title is "What is your idea about the possibility of secularism in Iran?"
Any off topic post will be reported.

Its you who point out to your beloved brothers and sisters; not me.

Anyway. I can't understand why people still want religion to have a saying in politics. The influence of religion in a society has never led to anything positive.