What is the Terminal velocity of a Ballistic Missile Warhead? Mach 17 here.

[Mrc]

@Mrc
Now too much hot air has been let out,kindly do the justice to prove it based on credible test firing of df-21 where it actually hit a moving target out at sea and by moving target I mean target moving at 52kmph. Please Now dont waste my time with your jibberish and un-educated remarks--based on gossips,internet forums--go and first get a degree in aerospace.

Shaheen 3 ... fake

Babur 3 .... fake

Ababeel....fake

Df 31 d .... fake...

Imad *iran * probably fake...

Whoke world is full if fakes...

Some fakes are one generation ahead of others...

 

[ghazi768]

@ghazi768
Hi,I gave out "scientific reasons" as to why one is superior to another.In case you want "proof" I would be much more happy to post plethora of literature here.But alas,I know research papers and patents are of no use to majority of pakistanis(barring a few exceptions) here. Now if you wish to refute it--as one gentleman above did with his "layman analysis",then kindly furnish "proofs".I hope you get what I am saying.

What 'scientific reasons' you presented? other than making plain 'statements' without any proof.
Also stop trying to pull this 'scholarly' trick each time but either presenting some math or again and again mentioning the research paper/patent argument. Have you run out of better arguments to keep parroting this one same thing again and again, it is now not only getting boring but also irritating.
PS: if you want to do research on wireless/IOT, why waste 100 $ on a galileo board and 20+ $ on an intel wireless card. That is lame and bloody boring..
Get a mini pro or nano with NRF chip or a nodemcu that will do the trick in 4-5 $ and will be more interesting.

 

[amardeep mishra]

PS: if you want to do research on wireless/IOT, why waste 100 $ on a galileo board and 20+ $ on an intel wireless card. That is lame and bloody boring..
Get a mini pro or nano with NRF chip or a nodemcu that will do the trick in 4-5 $ and will be more interesting

Hi! @ghazi768
I'm not doing my research in IoT. I do that in my free time. Hobby electronics. One piece of suggestion-- before advising others make sure you've done that. Now, officially Intel do not support NRF,I mean they only support Intel certified wifi cards. So if you can write your own driver and get it to work with Intel Galileo(I mean intel Galileo working as micro computer with Linux yocto image) then its alright.Also Intel Galileo brings with itself all the functionalities of arduino as a micro computer. Since me, being me, I'm a huge fan of Linux and bash scripting. Believe me, my bashrc file(you can get it at my github account) would just blow your minds off! I needed a board that could run Linux and was much more real time than raspberry pi. And that's when i embraced Intel Galileo almost 1.5yrs back.it has got YOCTO image that is much more real time than normal debian that one gets with raspi.
PS- I stopped using plain arduino 4 years back!
Now coming back to the "proof" part, tell me frankly, what would you do if i provided you with proofs of whatever "statement" I've written above in my comments?
Would you do me a favor and provide equivalent proofs for Pakistani missile? I mean credible proofs.

Shaheen 3 ... fake

Babur 3 .... fake

Ababeel....fake

Df 31 d .... fake...

Imad *iran * probably fake...

Whoke world is full if fakes...

Some fakes are one generation ahead of others...

Don't waste time, provide "proof" in the form of official declaration from Chinese that they did indeed hit a target moving at 30knots with df 21. How difficult could it possibly be?

 

[kṣamā]

Hi @The Accountant
I'm amazed to see your "layman analysis". Wow!what an argument! Keep posting such "layman analysis". And scientific community will never run out of entertainment.
On a serious note though, I can only hope you "understand" atleast 50% of what you've written above.
Do not worry I am not gonna "refute" your "layman analysis" because it'll be brutal wastage of my time. Happy analysis!


These folks make MaRV look like piece of cake!sure they know aerospace!
That underlined "inside" part is very important and I guess that's where these folks go nuts. Till now neither indian or Pakistani RV has the capability to maneuver "inside" atmosphere.I don't know why these folks have difficulty understanding it.I'm afraid they watch too much of Mr Samar mubarakmand or maybe they follow a lot of blogs. Either way, one must never loose grips of reality

Bro these are way better claims than what I have come across. People on this thread have suggested (in other threads) increase range of Ballistic Missiles by adding a gas generator behind the warhead like a BB shell...! Using RCS motors to boost the reentry speeds, maneuver by RCS thrusters, RAM coated warheads, Using Sun in background to blind ABM etc. No amount of common sense can help them. And there you are posting technical stuff and asking them to solve 4th order differential equation! Balls you have.

Please study projectile motion, for the love of God

Bhai I am no Aerospace researcher. I like reading up on these stuff and learn. And even at being literally a "Noob" at this subject I get your frustration dude. And by no means I say that only Pakistanis come up with such posts. Indians and Chinese are at par and sometimes even excel at posting such nonsense.

I would be honored if you could correct me if I do the same. Anyways I have always appreciated your posts and analysis.

Er....... What?
No idea what you wrote here .
Word of advice. We don't come to a public internet forum to write some PHD thesis on aerodynamics or systems engineering. We only come here in our leisure time as hobby.
So if you want to continue with differential equations, you are better suited in some MIT students forum.
You are wasting your time in writing long comments so complicated that nobody will understand them.
Making your comments simple for average joe , will help .

From the little I could understand. Pakistan uses Ring laser gyroscopes as mentioned by Dr. A.Q.Khan back in the early 2000. Myself I am.from the era of Mechanical gyroscope and listening to the whining of 11000 rpm disk , when Sperry was still a company.

I think the tread did not go the way you expected it to go. These 2 cent academicans are ruining the thread posting technical details from books and stuff, asking you to do Laplace and Fourier transforms, creating mathematical models to simulate trajectories and sorts. Asking proofs, research papers etc. Seriously these Indians are making your information threads all full of "Facts"!

 

[ghazi768]

Hi! @ghazi768
I'm not doing my research in IoT. I do that in my free time. Hobby electronics. One piece of suggestion-- before advising others make sure you've done that. Now, officially Intel do not support NRF,I mean they only support Intel certified wifi cards. So if you can write your own driver and get it to work with Intel Galileo(I mean intel Galileo working as micro computer with Linux yocto image) then its alright.Also Intel Galileo brings with itself all the functionalities of arduino as a micro computer. Since me, being me, I'm a huge fan of Linux and bash scripting. Believe me, my bashrc file(you can get it at my github account) would just blow your minds off! I needed a board that could run Linux and was much more real time than raspberry pi. And that's when i embraced Intel Galileo almost 1.5yrs back.it has got YOCTO image that is much more real time than normal debian that one gets with raspi.
PS- I stopped using plain arduino 4 years back!
Now coming back to the "proof" part, tell me frankly, what would you do if i provided you with proofs of whatever "statement" I've written above in my comments?
Would you do me a favor and provide equivalent proofs for Pakistani missile? I mean credible proofs.


Don't waste time, provide "proof" in the form of official declaration from Chinese that they did indeed hit a target moving at 30knots with df 21. How difficult could it possibly be?

I can't care less whether you love bash or not or what flavour of Linux you are comfortable with or your issues with using a Pi. But uploading pics of a lame intel board and a wlan card is not that interesting.. it does not matter how long you bash scripts are.. AND you are not using a galileo board with a servo for hobby electronics?..building some hi-fi rocket guidance stuff

Now back to the topic.. before demanding proofs..furnish proofs for your statements.. That is it..nothing more..nothing less
Good bye and have a good day tinkering with that galilio board.

 

[Mrc]

Don't waste time, provide "proof" in the form of official declaration from Chinese that they did indeed hit a target moving at 30knots with df 21. How difficult could it possibly be?

Why dont you call washington and tell them chinese are bluffing?? U have found their fakery just like babur 3 video...

On a serious note....

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/mar/14/nuclear-missile-programs-in-north-korea-iran-need-/


Take that and stop making fool of your self

From my highly biased articke above... point to b noted is


"In March, Iran successfully tested Hormuz-2, an anti-ship ballistic missile with a maneuvering warhead that located and destroyed a target vessel at a range of 250 kilometers."

Now now go back to drawing board

Cone on guys ... write some thing stupid... i am waiting

 

[amardeep mishra]

But uploading pics of a lame intel board and a wlan card is not that interesting.

Oh sure it is much more interesting than a simple uno/micro/nano or what not! I can go into depths of how intel galileo gen 2 is much more better but perhaps that wont get into your thick skull?
Ok,lets try one more time,How easily can you code lets say machine learning algorithm alongwith sliding mode control algorithm in any of your micro/nano(using C) and Intel galileo gen 2(using python)?Does that ring any bell? Belive me,I have! I know precisely what are the difficulties.As for the proofs lets get started,shall we?
1)Here is the one that talks about extensive usage of composites in Agni-4 and Agni5(the latest Indian strategic missiles)-
http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories3678_India_tests_canisterised_Agni-5_ICBM_successfully.htm
http://pib.nic.in/newsite/mbErel.aspx?relid=155897
http://www.france-metallurgie.com/i...osite-materials-instead-of-maraging-steel-us/

2)Here is the proof of usage of compact FOGs or RLGs:
http://publications.drdo.gov.in/ojs/index.php/dsj/article/viewFile/4254/2502
This research paper deals with the performance analysis of "indigenously designed and developed" acclerometers and ring laser gyros. Kindly note,everything has been manufactured in india.

This has been designed entirely in india by RCI-hyderabad. In case you're in doubt.You can refer to their research papers.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...atent-its-technology/articleshow/22083983.cms
Also Note that RCI is getting ready to patent their intellectual property. Now tell me when was the last time pakistani defence lab patented their intellectual property?If ever?You are free to dis-approve me with proofs ofcourse!

3) Use of flex nozzle:

4)Abandoning the use of truss structure:
Refer to any pic of Agni-4 or Agni-5

5)Abandoning the use of any external control surface:
Same as #4

Take that and stop making fool of your self

From my highly biased articke above... point to b noted is

Perhaps you do not know what a credible proof is ,right?I can show you 100 such "congressional hearings" or written by such folks. A credible report is one coming from author who is master in the subject. Such articles has got more to twist the arms of american policy makers into coughing up more money for their own strategic programs.

 

[Mrc]

Perhaps you do not know what a credible proof is ,right?I can show you 100 such "congressional hearings".

Thanks for obliging by saying sime thing extremely stupid..

Its a news paper article

Washington time is more reputed tahn random indian trolls

And author

Peter Vincent Pry is chief of staff of the Congressional EMP Commission, served in the House Armed Services Committee, the CIA, and is author of “Blackout Wars”

 

[CriticalThought]

Oh sure it is much more interesting than a simple uno/micro/nano or what not! I can go into depths of how intel galileo gen 2 is much more better but perhaps that wont get into your thick skull?
Ok,lets try one more time,How easily can you code lets say machine learning algorithm alongwith sliding mode control algorithm in any of your micro/nano(using C) and Intel galileo gen 2(using python)?Does that ring any bell? Belive me,I have! I know precisely what are the difficulties.As for the proofs lets get started,shall we?
1)Here is the one that talks about extensive usage of composites in Agni-4 and Agni5(the latest Indian strategic missiles)-
http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories3678_India_tests_canisterised_Agni-5_ICBM_successfully.htm
http://pib.nic.in/newsite/mbErel.aspx?relid=155897
http://www.france-metallurgie.com/i...osite-materials-instead-of-maraging-steel-us/
View attachment 385262 View attachment 385261

2)Here is the proof of usage of compact FOGs or RLGs:
http://publications.drdo.gov.in/ojs/index.php/dsj/article/viewFile/4254/2502
This research paper deals with the performance analysis of "indigenously designed and developed" acclerometers and ring laser gyros. Kindly note,everything has been manufactured in india.
View attachment 385263
This has been designed entirely in india by RCI-hyderabad. In case you're in doubt.You can refer to their research papers.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...atent-its-technology/articleshow/22083983.cms
Also Note that RCI is getting ready to patent their intellectual property. Now tell me when was the last time pakistani defence lab patented their intellectual property?If ever?You are free to dis-approve me with proofs ofcourse!

3) Use of flex nozzle:
View attachment 385265
View attachment 385264 View attachment 385268

4)Abandoning the use of truss structure:
Refer to any pic of Agni-4 or Agni-5

5)Abandoning the use of any external control surface:
Same as #4


Perhaps you do not know what a credible proof is ,right?I can show you 100 such "congressional hearings" or written by such folks. A credible report is one coming from author who is master in the subject. Such articles has got more to twist the arms of american policy makers into coughing up more money for their own strategic programs.

It doesn't make sense to patent something that you are not going to export, or someone else is not going to sell in the international market. If Pakistan was to copy these patents, where would you lodge an infringement suit against us? And would you even know we use it in the next version of Shaheen or Ababeel? Or if we decide to sell it to Saudi Arabia, how would you know?

I guess, in India's case it MAY make sense because you have a commercial space program and the countries involved in launching space rockets might have decided to respect each other's IP (please correct me if I am wrong here). If we ever get into that field, we shall have incentive to publish papers and patent our technology. Right now, we are in a fight for our very existence and need to wield weapons by hook or by crook.

 

[Safriz]

Dr.Alfred Kastler came to Pakistan in 1976 and kick started Laser research. He was a co-inventor of Laser . Here is his Picture in Nathia Gali with Pakistani students and scientists.

Later Dr. Charles Townes came to Pakistan in early 80s . He too was the Nobel prize winner and Co-Inventor of Laser. His patronage of Pakistani scientists further enhanced Laser Research in Pakistan..

Today Pakistan is an exporter of high tech Laser Products and up until 2014 when i last checked , Pakistan had exported 5 Billion Rs worth of Laser products , not a lot but hightech exports.

One of the main customer of Pakistani Laser products has been Cern. Pakistan has researched,designed and produced then fitted many Laser product in the LHC (Picture shows Pakistani technicians taking part in recent upgrade of M-Lines)

Pakistani flag seen on a layer of Compact Muon Solenoid where Pakistan made the Laser based positioning system for the main Particle detector. The lasers calculate the position of the detector with high accuracy and incorporate the changes in position in main calculations. The machine is so bog that temperature changes, high and low tides in nearby lake, passing trains,all have effects on its structure and the Pakistan made laser sensors detect all those tiny movements.

The dedicated Institution for Laser research is NILOP , National Institute of Laser ad optronics. This is an actual picture of their tenable CO2 lase. This laser is being used in Pakistan's Nuclear program as isotope separator instead of centrifuges.

As far as Ring Laser Gyroscopes are concerned, they are no more the ubber high tech they used to be in the 80s.
Inertiometers, Gyroscopes and compassed are now used in Mobile phones, Gameing controllers and are common as muck.

In 1984 a Private venture called Margalla electronics ws set up to make Inertial Guidence including Ring Laser Gyros for Pakistani missiles,and they they made it for Ghaznavi Missile.
Later A.Q.Khan's KRL also made their own version for Ghauri series.

Further reading on this PDF document
http://www.khwarizmi.org/system/files/activities/233/laser_shaukat.pdf

 

[ghazi768]

Oh sure it is much more interesting than a simple uno/micro/nano or what not! I can go into depths of how intel galileo gen 2 is much more better but perhaps that wont get into your thick skull?
Ok,lets try one more time,How easily can you code lets say machine learning algorithm alongwith sliding mode control algorithm in any of your micro/nano(using C) and Intel galileo gen 2(using python)?Does that ring any bell? Belive me,I have! I know precisely what are the difficulties.As for the proofs lets get started,shall we?
1)Here is the one that talks about extensive usage of composites in Agni-4 and Agni5(the latest Indian strategic missiles)-
http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories3678_India_tests_canisterised_Agni-5_ICBM_successfully.htm
http://pib.nic.in/newsite/mbErel.aspx?relid=155897
http://www.france-metallurgie.com/i...osite-materials-instead-of-maraging-steel-us/
View attachment 385262 View attachment 385261

2)Here is the proof of usage of compact FOGs or RLGs:
http://publications.drdo.gov.in/ojs/index.php/dsj/article/viewFile/4254/2502
This research paper deals with the performance analysis of "indigenously designed and developed" acclerometers and ring laser gyros. Kindly note,everything has been manufactured in india.
View attachment 385263
This has been designed entirely in india by RCI-hyderabad. In case you're in doubt.You can refer to their research papers.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...atent-its-technology/articleshow/22083983.cms
Also Note that RCI is getting ready to patent their intellectual property. Now tell me when was the last time pakistani defence lab patented their intellectual property?If ever?You are free to dis-approve me with proofs ofcourse!

3) Use of flex nozzle:
View attachment 385265
View attachment 385264 View attachment 385268

4)Abandoning the use of truss structure:
Refer to any pic of Agni-4 or Agni-5

5)Abandoning the use of any external control surface:
Same as #4


Perhaps you do not know what a credible proof is ,right?I can show you 100 such "congressional hearings" or written by such folks. A credible report is one coming from author who is master in the subject. Such articles has got more to twist the arms of american policy makers into coughing up more money for their own strategic programs.

hummm..the kid's ego is now getting hurt
You seem to be some college/university kid, may be doing some degree with research as part of it. If you had not been trying to peddle yourself as an expert here by such pin pricks.. it is a good hobby and good for you. But do not try to look smarter than you are.. what you were trying to pass as an expert is just introductory stuff to electronics..

And what you spitted out as links and images is 'proof'?

 

[The Deterrent]

Shaheen-2 rises to same apogee as a Ghauri did in 1998 but reaches double the range , so there is the evidece of Pakistan's work on depressed trajectory.

Can you enlighten us on where you got that figure from?

 

[amardeep mishra]

hummm..the kid's ego is now getting hurt
You seem to be some college/university kid, may be doing some degree with research as part of it. If you had not been trying to peddle yourself as an expert here by such pin pricks.. it is a good hobby and good for you. But do not try to look smarter than you are.. what you were trying to pass as an expert is just introductory stuff to electronics..

And what you spitted out as links and images is 'proof'?

@ghazi768
Do you realize you've not provided proof for anything you have been writing till now?awwww,I can understand superior Pakistani technical education playing it's part,hmmm?
Now tell me frankly when was the last time you implemented any control with a open source computer? I'm not talking about the PID but anything modern? You are proving to be not only ignorant but also an illiterate who believes a simple uno/micro/nano is better/interesting than Galileo?
Did you even bother going through the links I sent you? There were couple of research papers as well. But then again,Pakistanis do not need research papers to prove their point, do they?
Now please be a gentleman and prove your bloody point using papers,patents etc.

PS: Now for the underlined part,please be honest and answer me these questions:
1)What is your experience with open source computers like Intel Galileo?
2)Experience with simulation,designing and implementation of non-linear control methodologies with the very same boards?
3)Experience with various protocols and implementing them in python?
4)Establishing your own sensor network.
5)Experience with passive phased array radars.
I never claimed to be an expert in electronic,but let me assure you that I have worked with these things in much more depths than you can possibly comprehend at the moment. I am Control Engineer from one of the best institutes of my country,and I dont think explaining all of these to a illiterate fool whose country's entire patent output is DWARFED by IITs makes any sense! Keep living in your happy world while our Industrial research will outpace yours by a huge margin year on year!

PSS: I have got one ESP8266 in my lab,although I dont use it now.

In 1984 a Private venture called Margalla electronics ws set up to make Inertial Guidence including Ring Laser Gyros for Pakistani missiles,and they they made it for Ghaznavi Missile.
Later A.Q.Khan's KRL also made their own version for Ghauri series.

Further reading on this PDF document
http://www.khwarizmi.org/system/files/activities/233/laser_shaukat.pdf

I went through your pdf above--it does talk about pakistani contribution to CERN--which is indeed a commendable job(something genuine) but there is not a single mention of RLGs. Can you provide any other link?Preferably from the govt?
And one more thing,I agree,laser research kick started in pakistan in 70s and 80s,but that doesnt necessarily mean that they can indigenously design and manufacture a high precision and high accuracy FOG or RLGs. You must understand that,to design something you must have an ecosystem of labs and industries. My question to you is straightforward and that is-- Can you point out specific research papers or publications mentioning that so and so RLG has been indigenously designed in pakistan--just how I did above with respect to Indian FOGs and RLGs?

 

[Safriz]

@ghazi768
Do you realize you've not provided proof for anything you have been writing till now?awwww,I can understand superior Pakistani technical education playing it's part,hmmm?
Now tell me frankly when was the last time you implemented any control with a open source computer? I'm not talking about the PID but anything modern? You are proving to be not only ignorant but also an illiterate who believes a simple uno/micro/nano is better/interesting than Galileo?
Did you even bother going through the links I sent you? There were couple of research papers as well. But then again,Pakistanis do not need research papers to prove their point, do they?
Now please be a gentleman and prove your bloody point using papers,patents etc.

PS: Now for the underlined part,please be honest and answer me these questions:
1)What is your experience with open source computers like Intel Galileo?
2)Experience with simulation,designing and implementation of non-linear control methodologies with the very same boards?
3)Experience with various protocols and implementing them in python?
4)Establishing your own sensor network.
5)Experience with passive phased array radars.
I never claimed to be an expert in electronic,but let me assure you that I have worked with these things in much more depths than you can possibly comprehend at the moment. I am Control Engineer from one of the best institutes of my country,and I dont think explaining all of these to a illiterate fool whose country's entire patent output is DWARFED by IITs makes any sense! Keep living in your happy world while our Industrial research will outpace yours by a huge margin year on year!

PSS: I have got one ESP8266 in my lab,although I dont use it now.


I went through your pdf above--it does talk about pakistani contribution to CERN--which is indeed a commendable job(something genuine) but there is not a single mention of RLGs. Can you provide any other link?Preferably from the govt?
And one more thing,I agree,laser research kick started in pakistan in 70s and 80s,but that doesnt necessarily mean that they can indigenously design and manufacture a high precision and high accuracy FOG or RLGs. You must understand that,to design something you must have an ecosystem of labs and industries. My question to you is straightforward and that is-- Can you point out specific research papers or publications mentioning that so and so RLG has been indigenously designed in pakistan--just how I did above with respect to Indian FOGs and RLGs?

You won't find exact details of any Missile related research in Public domain in case of Pakistan.
About Ring Laser Gyroscope you can search IEEE and will find plenty of research papers by Pakistanis.
RLG is no more as cutting edge tech as it used to be in the 80s ,so its not as difficult to master .

 

[Mrc]

You won't find exact details o ant Missile related research in Public domain in case of Pakistan.
About Ring Laser Gyroscpe you can search IEEE and will find plenty of research papers by Pakistanis.
RLG is no more as cutting edge tech as it used to be in the 80s ,so its not as difficult to master .

We are arguing with an un employed wanna b conquerer of worlds

Can you enlighten us on where you got that figure from?

Shaheen 3 quotted speed is mach 18 not mach 15... just a correction from our discussion the other day