What is Pakistan's Full Spectrum Deterrence doctrine?

[The Deterrent]

China does have a NFUP my dear friend

Thanks for informing, I didn't know that.

Yes I'm a research scholar,IIT madras,and I know under what circumstances they get the figure of 98%,and that's why I also mentioned- prithvi was used to mimic Pakistan's older liquid fueled missile- at least in trajectory.and hence the probability of interception against Pakistani solid fueled IRBMs would be less.That is precisely the reason DRDL is working on phase 2 with enhanced interceptors that will take care of solid fueled ICBMs launched from over 5000kms away.For that DRDO has erected very long range radars viz the sword fish(Indian version of green pine) with very high pulse repetition frequency to track very fast moving target(~10s of mach). Space based assets are being worked upon to detect launch of ICBMs-because early warning is the key. Secondly newer higher energy material with higher ISP are being used in exo and indo interceptors under phase 2. The exo interceptor has IIR seeker instead of an active radar seeker because IIR seeker can very easily discriminate between a warhead and other decoys(thanks to image correlation) which a radar seeker can't!

I have read about all the development process. If I may ask, where exactly has the BMD shield been deployed presently?

Tell me very frankly, have you ever had the opportunity of either visiting or talking to Pakistani equivalent of DRDL/ASL/RCI(missile design and development labs)? You'd get the answers

Allow me to decline to comment here. It was nice chatting with you.

 

[zebra7]

Yes I'm a research scholar,IIT madras,and I know under what circumstances they get the figure of 98%,and that's why I also mentioned- prithvi was used to mimic Pakistan's older liquid fueled missile- at least in trajectory.and hence the probability of interception against Pakistani solid fueled IRBMs would be less.That is precisely the reason DRDL is working on phase 2 with enhanced interceptors that will take care of solid fueled ICBMs launched from over 5000kms away.For that DRDO has erected very long range radars viz the sword fish(Indian version of green pine) with very high pulse repetition frequency to track very fast moving target(~10s of mach). Space based assets are being worked upon to detect launch of ICBMs-because early warning is the key. Secondly newer higher energy material with higher ISP are being used in exo and indo interceptors under phase 2. The exo interceptor has IIR seeker instead of an active radar seeker because IIR seeker can very easily discriminate between a warhead and other decoys(thanks to image correlation) which a radar seeker can't!

The countries like US, Russia, China, even Taiwan have established long range land based BMEW Radar as Early warning system as the part of ABM, and the Israeli swordfish radar is only the targeting radar for the PDV/PAD/AAD with 600 Km of range not 5000 km, then how come Indian ABM is ready, when there is no work or plan for such radar. The space IR sensor which you have mentioned which is already present in GSAT-7 would be used to detect any launch, but without ground control and all of them linked don't you think its too early to say DRDO have given ABM capability. If you look at the PAD/PDV its look more like land 2 land ballastic missile its only the technology demostrator. Don't you think it should be wedge shaped, hypersonic vehicle. With just 2 Green Pine does it provide the umbrella from pakistan, china, and two sea sides.

 

[ice_man]

@amardeep mishra

i would let deterrent answer you as he knows more about the subject then i do. BUT i would like to enlighten you on education institutes in Pakisan that teach engineering and applied sciences.
specially

KANUPP Institute of Nuclear Power Engineering.

Google

 

[amardeep mishra]

The countries like US, Russia, China, even Taiwan have established long range land based BMEW Radar as Early warning system as the part of ABM, and the Israeli swordfish radar is only the targeting radar for the PDV/PAD/AAD with 600 Km of range not 5000 km, then how come Indian ABM is ready, when there is no work or plan for such radar. The space IR sensor which you have mentioned which is already present in GSAT-7 would be used to detect any launch, but without ground control and all of them linked don't you think its too early to say DRDO have given ABM capability. If you look at the PAD/PDV its look more like land 2 land ballastic missile its only the technology demostrator. Don't you think it should be wedge shaped, hypersonic vehicle. With just 2 Green Pine does it provide the umbrella from pakistan, china, and two sea sides.

Hi zebra,
If you notice carefully i was talking more about the technical aspects of our ABM system rather than the "when" aspect of it.I never claimed that ABM is operational.I would suggest you to read my comments once more.And as far as long range target detection and tracking is concerned -india might not have an equivalent of pave paws or russian voronezh systems however ISRO do have very long range tracking systems that track satellites(obviously it has a very stringent restriction on the number of targets it can handle).
As for the range of sword fish-it has been increased to 1200kms which is perfectly fine against kind of missiles pakistan posses or any missile launched by second artillery corp of china from tibetan region.However for a superior system a very long range radar with ranges of close to ~4000(~5000kms)+ would be required if we are aiming for detecting a 10000kms ranged ICBM fired off from lets say somewhere in atlantic or pacific.
On a similar note do you have any idea the kind of energies required to place a missile at an altitude of 150kms+?That was the reason why prithvi was initially used as an exo interceptor.More recently a solid fueled version of prithvi(with structural modifications) along with IIR seeker was successfully test fired.
Finally who told you that we have just 2 sword fish?
Hope i have made myself very clear?

i would let deterrent answer you as he knows more about the subject then i do. BUT i would like to enlighten you on education institutes in Pakisan that teach engineering and applied sciences.
specially

KANUPP Institute of Nuclear Power Engineering.

Hi dear Ice man,
Well my dear friend I am baffled by your naivety! Let me explain you,I will try to explain you both academic institutions and industries.First i will touch upon Academic institutions-
You see,the quality of an academic institution is gauged by various factors like-
1)Quantity of research papers produced
2)The journals where the research papers are published- it is a measure of the quality of the paper.For instance if your paper gets published in A-rated top journals then it is very good! or Number of research papers published in top A-rated journals like AIAA or transaction of non linear control etc
3)Citation factor- it is also a measure of quality
4)Number of patents filed by the institute.
Some of the less important yardsticks might be-
(a)Number of foreign research companies coming to the academic institute for placements
(b)Number of foreign research companies like GE,QUALCOM,TI,BROADCOM etc having research collaboration with the academic institution
Now if you use these 6 yardsticks,You would quickly come to know where pakistani education institutes stand.I need not explain further and i am sure @The Deterrent would agree!
Now coming to industries-
Well the Industries can do wonders with academic institutions provided there is a high degree of sync between the two.Industrial research is gauged by various factors that might include(my list is not exhaustive)-
1)Creation of in house technology- or creation of intellectual property
2)Patent filing- Higher the numbers,better it is!
3)Capability to mass produce latest technology.
I will shed some light on india,china and pakistan -
There is a tremendous push in china to file more and more patents.This aggressive push by the CPC led to an exponential increase in patent filing by chinese companies.ZTE surpassed everyone by filing 2700 patents 2 years back!
India- In india too there was a realization somewhere around mid 2000s that creation of intellectual property is the way forward and you would see a sudden surge in numbers of patents filed by indian companies- for instance BHEL filed more than 360 patents in 2014 and HAL close to 780 in the very same year.These numbers might be very less compared to china- yet they are significant in the sense that they tell an upward growth story of various indian companies.I mean 10 years down the line these very same indian companies would be producing as many as 3000-5000 patents a year!
Pakistan- Unfortunately in pakistan this realization hasnt come yet! I mean The patent output of pakistan continue to remain abysmally poor with respect to both india and china! For instance BHEL(an indian power sector giant) filed more than all pakistan combined for the FY 2014

 

[ice_man]

Hi dear Ice man,
Well my dear friend I am baffled by your naivety! Let me explain you,I will try to explain you both academic institutions and industries.First i will touch upon Academic institutions-
You see,the quality of an academic institution is gauged by various factors like-
1)Quantity of research papers produced
2)The journals where the research papers are published- it is a measure of the quality of the paper.For instance if your paper gets published in A-rated top journals then it is very good! or Number of research papers published in top A-rated journals like AIAA or transaction of non linear control etc
3)Citation factor- it is also a measure of quality
4)Number of patents filed by the institute.
Some of the less important yardsticks might be-
(a)Number of foreign research companies coming to the academic institute for placements
(b)Number of foreign research companies like GE,QUALCOM,TI,BROADCOM etc having research collaboration with the academic institution
Now if you use these 6 yardsticks,You would quickly come to know where pakistani education institutes stand.I need not explain further and i am sure @The Deterrent would agree!
Now coming to industries-
Well the Industries can do wonders with academic institutions provided there is a high degree of sync between the two.Industrial research is gauged by various factors that might include(my list is not exhaustive)-
1)Creation of in house technology- or creation of intellectual property
2)Patent filing- Higher the numbers,better it is!
3)Capability to mass produce latest technology.
I will shed some light on india,china and pakistan -
There is a tremendous push in china to file more and more patents.This aggressive push by the CPC led to an exponential increase in patent filing by chinese companies.ZTE surpassed everyone by filing 2700 patents 2 years back!
India- In india too there was a realization somewhere around mid 2000s that creation of intellectual property is the way forward and you would see a sudden surge in numbers of patents filed by indian companies- for instance BHEL filed more than 360 patents in 2014 and HAL close to 780 in the very same year.These numbers might be very less compared to china- yet they are significant in the sense that they tell an upward growth story of various indian companies.I mean 10 years down the line these very same indian companies would be producing as many as 3000-5000 patents a year!
Pakistan- Unfortunately in pakistan this realization hasnt come yet! I mean The patent output of pakistan continue to remain abysmally poor with respect to both india and china! For instance BHEL(an indian power sector giant) filed more than all pakistan combined for the FY 2014

Pakistani institutes such as NUST

Research Output in Pakistani Universities

National University of Sciences and Technology (Pakistan) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.hec.gov.pk/InsideHEC/Divisions/QALI/Others/RankingofUniversities/Documents/Final_Doc.pdf

are ranked in top 500 in the world!

also do have a read of this

India’s illiterate population largest in the world, says UNESCO report - The Hindu

so with having the largest illiterate population in the world indian "education level" too are exposed as being far from ideal.


now i am sure you are a smart man you could google the "level of education" in pakistan.

 

[zebra7]

Hi zebra,
If you notice carefully i was talking more about the technical aspects of our ABM system rather than the "when" aspect of it.I never claimed that ABM is operational.I would suggest you to read my comments once more.And as far as long range target detection and tracking is concerned -india might not have an equivalent of pave paws or russian voronezh systems however ISRO do have very long range tracking systems that track satellites(obviously it has a very stringent restriction on the number of targets it can handle).
As for the range of sword fish-it has been increased to 1200kms which is perfectly fine against kind of missiles pakistan posses or any missile launched by second artillery corp of china from tibetan region.However for a superior system a very long range radar with ranges of close to ~4000(~5000kms)+ would be required if we are aiming for detecting a 10000kms ranged ICBM fired off from lets say somewhere in atlantic or pacific.
On a similar note do you have any idea the kind of energies required to place a missile at an altitude of 150kms+?That was the reason why prithvi was initially used as an exo interceptor.More recently a solid fueled version of prithvi(with structural modifications) along with IIR seeker was successfully test fired.
Finally who told you that we have just 2 sword fish?
Hope i have made myself very clear?

Very fine then, can you give some information in the direct energy weapon against BM threat, and the work in the country in this field other than Kali, i mean technology demonstration test type. Do you think that it could be fit in the ariel platform. Can EMP directional explosion is possible and can it defeat the armour of the warhead whatever is left of the ballastic missile, though the electronic circuit might be having shield against that. Russia have such ABM shield over moscow where she used nuclear explosion against nuclear BM attack, but I categorically means the direction EMP surge attack.

Thanks for giving such detailed technical explanation what ever you have given in your posts. I want to ask in indian PAD/PDV during interception there is an explosion which is triggered by the proximity fuse, and US Thaad the US is uses the projectile to distroy the BM. Which is the best and does india plans for such projectile hard kill option.

And when we talk about the Indian massive response against the nuclear attack what does that mean, the nuclear retaliation toward the marked launch/control central headquater/fire control or military/civil leadership center or toward the countries prime cities with the goal to ripple whole country.

Thanks in advance.
@amardeep mishra

 

[amardeep mishra]

so with having the largest illiterate population in the world indian "education level" too are exposed as being far from ideal.


now i am sure you are a smart man you could google the "level of education" in pakistan.

Hi dear
I see your point, Indian literacy rate in 2011 stood at 74-5% and it has increased to 78-79% in 2015!
Literacy rate at 71% in rural India, 86% in urban: Survey - The Economic Times
The youth literacy rate(age 15-24) stands slightly above 90% way above Pakistan's 74%.
Pakistan's total literacy rate in 2014 was a mere 58%(not even 60%)
Education woes: Pakistan misses UN target with 58% literacy rate - The Express Tribune

Here is your very own link on research output of Pakistan that clearly says that Pakistan produced a mere 233 research papers in the field of IT and engineering in 2014-
Research Output in Pakistani Universities

Compared to this my college IIT madras alone produces more than 300PHDs every year, so in short my college alone produces more PhD than all of Pakistan combine (in IT and engineering sector alone). Now another thing that I've not even touched upon is the quality of these research papers.In India, to get a PhD from any top institute like IISC/IIT, you need to get your paper published in A-rated top journal like AIAA or transaction of non linear control.Whereas in Pakistan PLAGIARISM is the norm and culture!

 

[ice_man]

Hi dear
I see your point, Indian literacy rate in 2011 stood at 74-5% and it has increased to 78-79% in 2015!
Literacy rate at 71% in rural India, 86% in urban: Survey - The Economic Times
The youth literacy rate(age 15-24) stands slightly above 90% way above Pakistan's 74%.
Pakistan's total literacy rate in 2014 was a mere 58%(not even 60%)
Education woes: Pakistan misses UN target with 58% literacy rate - The Express Tribune

Here is your very own link on research output of Pakistan that clearly says that Pakistan produced a mere 233 research papers in the field of IT and engineering in 2014-
Research Output in Pakistani Universities

Compared to this my college IIT madras alone produces more than 300PHDs every year, so in short my college alone produces more PhD than all of Pakistan combine (in IT and engineering sector alone). Now another thing that I've not even touched upon is the quality of these research papers.In India, to get a PhD from any top institute like IISC/IIT, you need to get your paper published in A-rated top journal like AIAA or transaction of non linear control.Whereas in Pakistan PLAGIARISM is the norm and culture!

pakistan plagarism is the norm and how did a genius like yourself deduce this?

Secondly HEC doesn't recognize any university that even has a slight shady practices.

Hec Non Recognized

also have a read here:

Higher Education Commission of Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman has won four international awards for the revolutionary changes in the higher education sector brought in the HEC. The Austrian government conferred its highest civil award (“Grosse Goldene Ehrenzeischen am Bande") in recognition of his eminent contributions.[34] Nature, a leading science journal, has also written a number of editorials and articles about the transformation brought about in Pakistan in the higher education sector under the HEC. In an article entitled "Pakistan Threat to Indian Science" published in the leading daily newspaper Hindustan Times, India, it has been reported that Prof. C. N. R. Rao, Chairman of the Indian Prime Minister's Scientific Advisory Council made a presentation to the Indian Prime Minister at the rapid progress made by Pakistan in the higher education sector under the leadership of Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman, Chairman, Higher Education Commission. It was reported that as result of the reforms brought about in Pakistan " Pakistan may soon join China in giving India serious competition in science". "Science is a lucrative profession in Pakistan. It has tripled the salaries of its scientists in the last few years.".[35] Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman was conferred the highest national Award of the Republic of China in September 2014 for his contributions to develop strong linkages between Pakistan and China in various fields of higher education, science and technology.[36]


Six Pakistani universities ranked worldwide for 2015-16 - Daily Pakistan Global

anyhow i don't need to convince you of anything when you start off with a mindset that:

plagarism is the norm in Pakistan.

In India, You Can Plagiarize and Flourish | The Wire

Piracy in Research: Battling plagiarism in Indian universities | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis


so before you throw stones at us please look at your glass house.

Indian science adviser caught up in plagiarism row : Nature News & Comment

 

[amardeep mishra]

pakistan plagarism is the norm and how did a genius like yourself deduce this?

Secondly HEC doesn't recognize any university that even has a slight shady practices.

Hec Non Recognized

also have a read here:

Higher Education Commission of Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman has won four international awards for the revolutionary changes in the higher education sector brought in the HEC. The Austrian government conferred its highest civil award (“Grosse Goldene Ehrenzeischen am Bande") in recognition of his eminent contributions.[34] Nature, a leading science journal, has also written a number of editorials and articles about the transformation brought about in Pakistan in the higher education sector under the HEC. In an article entitled "Pakistan Threat to Indian Science" published in the leading daily newspaper Hindustan Times, India, it has been reported that Prof. C. N. R. Rao, Chairman of the Indian Prime Minister's Scientific Advisory Council made a presentation to the Indian Prime Minister at the rapid progress made by Pakistan in the higher education sector under the leadership of Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman, Chairman, Higher Education Commission. It was reported that as result of the reforms brought about in Pakistan " Pakistan may soon join China in giving India serious competition in science". "Science is a lucrative profession in Pakistan. It has tripled the salaries of its scientists in the last few years.".[35] Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman was conferred the highest national Award of the Republic of China in September 2014 for his contributions to develop strong linkages between Pakistan and China in various fields of higher education, science and technology.[36]


Six Pakistani universities ranked worldwide for 2015-16 - Daily Pakistan Global

anyhow i don't need to convince you of anything when you start off with a mindset that:

plagarism is the norm in Pakistan.

In India, You Can Plagiarize and Flourish | The Wire

Piracy in Research: Battling plagiarism in Indian universities | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis


so before you throw stones at us please look at your glass house.

Indian science adviser caught up in plagiarism row : Nature News & Comment

I do not wish to argue my friend,for you seem to somehow believe that Pakistani technical education system is good. And as for the report involving CNR RAO is concerned, it was just the case of "copy" of 3 lines.the research was not conducted by RAO but by two research scholars and one of the scholars apologised as well.
Perhaps this should help-
SJR - International Science Ranking

 

[v9s]

I do not wish to argue my friend,for you seem to somehow believe that Pakistani technical education system is good. And as for the report involving CNR RAO is concerned, it was just the case of "copy" of 3 lines.the research was not conducted by RAO but by two research scholars and one of the scholars apologised as well.
Perhaps this should help-
SJR - International Science Ranking

Please STFU now. You act like a person who's intrigued about Pakistan's scientific output but all I've seen you doing is eventually stroking your own ego, you disingenuous little shit.

 

[amardeep mishra]

Please STFU now. You act like a person who's intrigued about Pakistan's scientific output but all I've seen you doing is eventually stroking your own ego, you disingenuous little shit.

Hi v9s!
Abusing someone shows higher degree of frustration.Clearly a sign of loosing the argument-when you dont have anything else to back your claim based on international reports-you abuse the other one! I really dont mind my friend,go on and abuse me more.But just hold on and think for a second,why is it that-
(a) India is at #6 and pakistan at #43 in international research ranking?
(b) India is at #7 and pakistan #86 in patent filing?
(c) Nearly all foreign R&D firms have their research centres in either bangalore or hyderabad?
(d) IIT grads are known throughout america particularly the silicon valley?
There must be something right? Anyways,if you still can not think properly then you can surely go ahead and abuse me!

 

[ice_man]

Hi v9s!
Abusing someone shows higher degree of frustration.Clearly a sign of loosing the argument-when you dont have anything else to back your claim based on international reports-you abuse the other one! I really dont mind my friend,go on and abuse me more.But just hold on and think for a second,why is it that-
(a) India is at #6 and pakistan at #43 in international research ranking?
(b) India is at #7 and pakistan #86 in patent filing?
(c) Nearly all foreign R&D firms have their research centres in either bangalore or hyderabad?
(d) IIT grads are known throughout america particularly the silicon valley?
There must be something right? Anyways,if you still can not think properly then you can surely go ahead and abuse me!

look at the size of your population. it is natural for you to have more "patent filings" then us.

however, also do look at the number of people in india below poverty line that is almost equal to the WHOLE POPULATION OF PAKISTAN.

then do also look at the literacy rate of india

Literacy in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is estimated that at least 35 million, and possibly as many as 60 million, children aged 6–14 years are not in school.

that again is higher than the whole combined figure of pakistan that is illiterate.

so let's not stroke our egos.

hell even Israel is below you and most of the indian technology that DRDO is using is Israeli. example the radars and avionics for the LCA fighter. so does that make Israel less capable than india?

India planning acquisition of S-400 Triumf air defence missile system


ALSO you keep running from the question i asked you claimed that pakistan the norm is to plagiarise. how did you conclude this?

I am sorry but seems like you seem to be embarrassing IIT madras.

by making tall claims that you can't back up.

In India, You Can Plagiarize and Flourish | The Wire

Piracy in Research: Battling plagiarism in Indian universities | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis


Indian science adviser caught up in plagiarism row : Nature News & Comment

 

[Mutakalim]

It’s epic how some research scholars are obsessed with Pakistan’s weapon development. They should worry about countering these weapons instead of brainstorming about how these weapons are developed. This person is repeating same thing in almost every post. Senior members had given him detailed explanations about his queries. This mental attitude defies logic. If you are not convinced then move on try some other thing to degrade Pakistan. I don't know how research scholar can waste time on these useless things.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

look at the size of your population. it is natural for you to have more "patent filings" then us.

however, also do look at the number of people in india below poverty line that is almost equal to the WHOLE POPULATION OF PAKISTAN.

then do also look at the literacy rate of india

Literacy in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is estimated that at least 35 million, and possibly as many as 60 million, children aged 6–14 years are not in school.

that again is higher than the whole combined figure of pakistan that is illiterate.

so let's not stroke our egos.

hell even Israel is below you and most of the indian technology that DRDO is using is Israeli. example the radars and avionics for the LCA fighter. so does that make Israel less capable than india?

India planning acquisition of S-400 Triumf air defence missile system

ALSO you keep running from the question i asked you claimed that pakistan the norm is to plagiarise. how did you conclude this?

I am sorry but seems like you seem to be embarrassing IIT madras.

by making tall claims that you can't back up.

In India, You Can Plagiarize and Flourish | The Wire

Piracy in Research: Battling plagiarism in Indian universities | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis


Indian science adviser caught up in plagiarism row : Nature News & Comment

Whoaaaaaaa....................Wayyyyyyyy too much detail and explanation on this thread. And there's no need for it. Never argue with and indian. They are the most corrupt, deceptive, hypocritical, narrow-minded and dishonest race on the planet. Indians are compulsive liars and can never accept anything that does not conform to their beliefs.
Reality is that indian education and scientific/technical institutions are the lowest of the low. india has a population of over 1.3 billion (over 7x that of Pakistan's). There are more Indians than white people on earth. There are probably the same number of Indians as there are Chinese, if not more. Now, all the major inventions, high tech weapons developments, pioneering scientific and technological developments are all coming out of White countries AND China and Japan. By this I mean nations that can indigenously, completely and from scratch build, design and implement advanced high tech military hardware and equipment and be completely reliant on them. Despite india's 1.3 billion population (and rapidly increasing), india can do NONE of that. That is why they never invent anything high tech that the rest of the world wants. That's why they purchase Russian and Western military equipment and hardware en mass. If india had world class education and scientific institutions as indian posters claim, they most certainly would not be doing this. Western nations and Russia are more than happy to sell their military hardware and inventions (Space tech, research tools etc) to india because they both know that india can never pose a threat to them nor can the indian race ever challenge the Russians and the west (and China) in terms of science and technology. With China it's a completely different story.

China and india both became independent in 1947/48. Thanks to the British and because of WW2, India was the most powerful country in Asia then. China's situation was similar to that African nations now. Nearly 70 years later China is a superpower that is on the verge of having an indigenous production capability in all fields comparable to the west and Russia. Wheras india claims to be a superpower but as the following problems:

Over 40% of Indian children are malnourished, report finds | World news | The Guardian

India has 40% of world's malnourished: Expert - The Times of India

Poverty has increased during period of economic growth, says economist - The Hindu

 

[ice_man]

It’s epic how some research scholars are obsessed with Pakistan’s weapon development. They should worry about countering these weapons instead of brainstorming about how these weapons are developed. This person is repeating same thing in almost every post. Senior members had given him detailed explanations about his queries. This mental attitude defies logic. If you are not convinced then move on try some other thing to degrade Pakistan. I don't know how research scholar can waste time on these useless things.

its the ZEE NEWS NDTV and bharaat rakshak mindset. years and years of brain washing takes long to ware off.

that hinders their MENTAL PROGRESS