What is happening in the Army?

[Kinetic]

Exactly my point, we the begger country, begging one country, copying from another and if we cant copy we steal and paint our flag on it...our sovereignty lost and our soldiers killed by US, daily drone attacks, we lost our morale completely...our economy in ruins, chaos in entire country, our kids being killed....

yet still? shame on your morale, 26/11 culprits running free and the one who was jail we let him free to slap you.
!

26/11 culprits running free where??? In Pakistan. Who is getting radicalized? Pakistan. To fight a war with India you almost destroyed you economy and social structure. See what is happening in Pakistan. You need KSA and UAE to bail you out.

even somalia can take us !

Don't know about somalia but many are doing, forgot recent threat by UAE? You have taken a lot from them, now its time to repay, thats what they are asking for.

Now don't compare IA with PA, with all these I am saying IA has far better equipped than PA in both number and technology.

 

[xyxmt]

26/11 culprits running free where??? In Pakistan. Who is getting radicalized? Pakistan. To fight a war with India you almost destroyed you economy and social structure. See what is happening in Pakistan. You need KSA and UAE to bail you out.
.

I think we are doing fine, we are here face to face arent we.

 

[The_Sidewinder]

Bro all these you mentioned for IA is either late or IA still in dilemma and some of them are for IAF like Apache, Uttam AESA.

You are right about delayed acquisitions. I hope govt will clear them on priority basis.

About Apaches & Uttam AESA, Apaches being approved for Army, not IAF. And yes I confused UTTAM Aesa for LRTE mkii. My appologies.

 

[Koovie]

True... but this has been the case for some years now.

Seeing IA soldiers running around in WW2 kit hurts

 

[Abingdonboy]

I don't think this is logical solution, the number is perfect and as you know they are increasing the force more by raising new mountain divisions. Large number of money have been given back to finance dept as not spent. These can be used for buying artillery, drones and SAM, Prahaar might be a good start.

I still think the IA can become many times more capable by cutting numbers (some would see this as counter intuitive) because their manpower costs are simply so high and a MASSIVE drain on their budget (and the defence budget as a whole). Of $40 billion allocated for defence $20 billion goes to the IA and most of this $20 billion goes on salaries.

But you are also correct the IA needs to do more with what it has and handing back unspent funds to the Fin Min or transferring unspent CAPEX funds to the OPEX budget that happens every year is CRIMINAL. The backlog the MoD has built up in procurements is going to take 5-6 years to correct but the MoD cannot be blamed entirely, the IA also seems to have a very inefficient procurement system as compared to the more agile IAF- forget about the IN.

 

[kaku1]

Pakistan is giving you run for your money.
After Buraq news Modi is going for few more buying trips, French decided to keep the red carpet spread just in case

Buraq is for conventional warfare? Thats a new thing for me.

 

[Ind4Ever]

Exactly my point, we the begger country, begging one country, copying from another and if we cant copy we steal and paint our flag on it...our sovereignty lost and our soldiers killed by US, daily drone attacks, we lost our morale completely...our economy in ruins, chaos in entire country, our kids being killed....

yet still? shame on your morale, 26/11 culprits running free and the one who was jail we let him free to slap you.
even somalia can take us !!

What an Achievement !


On topic @Kinetic Bro Lots happening in I A . The first thing new govt did was to take care of all gaps and increase our thresholds . We already did with fast track purchases from Russian . All other deals already mentioned . I like to add 36000 cr already kept aside for developing new MSC with 40000 heavily armed men . Even though the army deals are very pain taking process in India we already going for 800 howitzer prog and many more to come . Cutting down the number is one thing spending wisely is another .

 

[Donatello]

For last few months or even last few years, IN and IAF rapidly introducing next generation weapons one after another keeping in mind their future requirements. Its IN and IAF all over in discussions.

IN: Number of nuclear submarines, Scorpenes started to come, Kolkata class is here, Vizag class in launched, Vikrant ready for undocking, New aircrafts, P-8I, navy is very interested in LCA, naval satellites etc etc.

IAF: Got Rfale, LCA is coming in squadron number, FGFA is confirmed and IAF will get them earilier than thought, next gen AAM Astra is getting ready, Akash inducted in numbers. Full net centric warfare capabilities.


IA: What they got in last few years that is something special or they are planning to get? Artilleries are still undergoing trials for years. What is their plan? What is their future take on few weapons that the enemy will not have answer! Nothing I guess.


Parrikar seriously need to look at army generals and corruption in the army.

Arjun is battling field trials. Will be there soon.

Buraq is for conventional warfare? Thats a new thing for me.

No, it is for Nuclear warfare.

 

[kaku1]

No, it is for Nuclear warfare.

What?

Okey.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Cutting down the number is one thing spending wisely is another .

They go hand in hand my friend.

By cutting the force down by, let's say, 20-30% the IA can afford to spend a huge amount more per soldier. The reason the US and Western soldiers are as well equipped as they are is because they have a high budget for each individual soldier, overtime the IA grows it is stripping away its own ability to spend on each soldier- the increases in its budget year on year are only marginally able to cover this. So in the same time it has taken the IN's CAPEX budget to more than double, the IA's has gone up by ,maybe, 30%.

Just look in the Indian context, who is, by far, the best equipped unit in India? And who enjoys the largest budget-per man ratio? The SPG.

 

[uparyupari]

Indian Army has barely raised above WW2 strategies and tactics. For most parts they remain rooted in WW2.

 

[Ind4Ever]

They go hand in hand my friend.

By cutting the force down by, let's say, 20-30% the IA can afford to spend a huge amount more per soldier. The reason the US and Western soldiers are as well equipped as they are is because they have a high budget for each individual soldier, overtime the IA grows it is stripping away its own ability to spend on each soldier- the increases in its budget year on year are only marginally able to cover this. So in the same time it has taken the IN's CAPEX budget to more than double, the IA's has gone up by ,maybe, 30%.

Just look in the Indian context, who is, by far, the best equipped unit in India? And who enjoys the largest budget-per man ratio? The SPG.

It's true by cutting down the troops we can spend more on New systems . But right now given the reality of threat perception we are increasing our strength each and every day . To solve this problem there are many ways curb the leakage and by increasing the budget . And that's why we need Chief of Army staff who can share the funds where it needed and when it needed . Our defence budget is very low to counter our real threat . We need to increase our funding so while maintaining our force strength we can add much more new weapons drastically. Our reserve troops can come in handy but not like regulars can do . Again Mean and lean is on thing and having Mean and lean army in large numbers is another thing altogether . Which we badly needed .

 

[Abingdonboy]

It's true by cutting down the troops we can spend more on New systems . But right now given the reality of threat perception we are increasing our strength each and every day . To solve this problem there are many ways curb the leakage and by increasing the budget . And that's why we need Chief of Army staff who can share the funds where it needed and when it needed . Our defence budget is very low to counter our real threat . We need to increase our funding so while maintaining our force strength we can add much more new weapons drastically. Our reserve troops can come in handy but not like regulars can do . Again Mean and lean is on thing and having Mean and lean army in large numbers is another thing altogether . Which we badly needed .

In an ideal world India would hike its defence spending from <2% to 2.5-3% for the next 5 years just to properly address the abysmal state of affairs the last decade has created for the military and then, by 2020, the defence budget can be retired to 2% (or less) of GDP. This would solve the military's issues within 4-5 years quite easily, It would be a drastic step but that is the state of affairs today.

It's not going to happen though.

 

[Ind4Ever]

In an ideal world India would hike its defence spending from <2% to 2.5-3% for the next 5 years just to properly address the abysmal state of affairs the last decade has created for the military and then, by 2020, the defence budget can be retired to 2% (or less) of GDP. This would solve the military's issues within 4-5 years quite easily, It would be a drastic step but that is the state of affairs today.

It's not going to happen though.

Bang on Bro
That's what we need to do. At least fir the next 10 years we should seriously consider hiking defence budget at 3 or 3.5 on the basis of ground reality. Our defence force is our insurance . And nothing wrong in insurances which can keep our trillions for wealth and billion+ humanity . Later we can go back to 2% range. Hope our MoD will think this way .

 

[Abingdonboy]

Bang on Bro
That's what we need to do. At least fir the next 10 years we should seriously consider hiking defence budget at 3 or 3.5 on the basis of ground reality. Our defence force is our insurance . And nothing wrong in insurances which can keep our trillions for wealth and billion+ humanity . Later we can go back to 2% range. Hope our MoD will think this way .

3.5% is a little too much, 2.5-3% is about right and for 5-6 years only (this would solve all of their equipment issues), but I don't see this happening. The GoI has to balance investment in boosting economic growth and spending on defence and here the defence budget is always going to suffer especially with this current PM/GoI. Long term these issues will be sorted out but that doesn't help those who have to make do with sh!tty equipment in the short term....