What if the Ottoman Caliphate Reunited Today?

[Fenasi Kerim]

Funny how in that picture it has a central asian looking Turk most likely a Turanist or a Pan Turkist. People say Ataturk supported Pan Turkism yeah he did hence why he did not allow Enver Pasha to come back and opposed a Uygur state led by an Ottoman Prince.

Then you have people claiming Ataturk supported Islam. Then you have the communist crowd saying Ataturk supported socialism or communism hence why he allied with Lenin.

What this picture proves Kemal was neither of them. Hence why people in Turkey need to stop claiming Ataturk for their own ideology.

Much of Turkish politics after Ataturk passed away has shaped peoples image of him. As every oppressive and backward law was "attributed" to what Ataturk "wanted for Turkey" bs pulled by leftist extremists. Ask the religious old men and ladies in Turkey that lived those times or there parents did, they absolutely love Ataturk. It is the later generation of leftist and religious idiots who hate or idolise him.

And you just said it yourself, it was because Turkey and the Soviets made peace and Turkey was in no state to fight the Russians, Ataturk hand dreams but was a realist first.

Ataturk saved Islam in Turkey from the hands of secularists and religious radicals by institutionalising religion.

I wonder if Ataturk kept the Caliphate I wonder how would that turn out. Another what if.

Perhaps we would not have terrorist groups clamouring for a Caliphate but a high chance it wont recognised as the Muslim world is diverse especially you have shias who wont recognise it then you have Saudis and their form of Islam who most likely wont recognise the caliphate.

Wouldn't change a thing, Saudis would still discover oil, publish there poison, maybe even declare themselves khalifas and then you have a bigger problem, Indians, Pakistanis etc would most probably start following Saudis even more because they apparently "look after Mecca" i.e turn it into Las Vegas luxury hotels and you would get even more extremist in South Asia. No way Turkey - Pakistan relations would be as good. Muslims who follow Turkey would be labelled liberal / modern Muslims i.e "mushriks" and those that follow "legitimised" Salafist poison would be "rightly guided". You can say good bye to traditional Sunni Islam, school of fiqh.

Also Turks would be under "obligation" of constant war and handouts to the Muslim world, Turks would remain the poorest people in the Muslim world as it became in the Ottoman empire.

IMO.

 

[Nein]

To be honest even the Ummayads and Abbassids are not recognised as a caliphate by a few because they had a monarchy system.

Since the Turks had the Caliphate once this will lead to other ethnic groups claiming themselves one like the Kurds, Pakistanis, Indians, Indonesians, Bosniaks, Malaysians and many more.

Religious institutions of today like the Caliphate, Pope, Orthodox Church and others who swayed power just no longer have the Political power they once had. They are only strong in a spiritual position but not politically. I think if there was a Caliphate today I dont think it would be strong politically because of nation states, different political ideologies, secularism and nationalism and would only be perhaps strong in a spiritual position.

 

[El Sidd]

Pakistanis

Are Not an ethinicity.

 

[Fenasi Kerim]

To be honest even the Ummayads and Abbassids are not recognised as a caliphate by a few because they had a monarchy system.

Since the Turks had the Caliphate once this will lead to other ethnic groups claiming themselves one like the Kurds, Pakistanis, Indians, Indonesians, Bosniaks, Malaysians and many more.

Religious institutions of today like the Caliphate, Pope, Orthodox Church and others who swayed power just no longer have the Political power they once had. They are only strong in a spiritual position but not politically. I think if there was a Caliphate today I dont think it would be strong politically because of nation states, different political ideologies, secularism and nationalism and would only be perhaps strong in a spiritual position.

Your right days of monarchy and religious institutions are dieing, even religious folk pick and choose how they live there religion, some drink, some not some, are church and mosque goers some not but they are still Muslim or Christian. Outside of literallist zealots and outcasts no one wants a medieval Europe or 10th century Arabia.

Although if the Ottomans were around and nationalism didn’t prevail I think we would have had a much mordern form of Islamic society one that is not plagued with 1 dress code, 1 way or the high way attitude. I’d rate even the Abbasids, Safavids, Andalusia and Ottomans as more “modern” in attitude then today’s hardliners.

 

[SALMAN F]

I wonder if Ataturk kept the Caliphate I wonder how would that turn out. Another what if.

Perhaps we would not have terrorist groups clamouring for a Caliphate but a high chance it wont recognised as the Muslim world is diverse especially you have shias who wont recognise it then you have Saudis and their form of Islam who most likely wont recognise the caliphate.

Even Salafis today call the Ottomans illegitimate because they are Turks and not Quraish blood but also how they did not follow Islam properly. In many ways Ataturk dismansomething that wont recognised by many unfortunately. Then you have takfiri types who make takfir at everything.

The salafists hate the ottomans don't because they were not qurashi but because they were Sufis

 

[Fenasi Kerim]

The salafists hate the ottomans don't because they were not qurashi but because they were Sufis

Both actually since the premise of killing someone for being “Sufi” wouldn’t sell 300 years ago, virtually all Sunni society had Sufi leanings.

They are also staunch supporters of the khalifa being Arab, that’s why you have Arab nationalists, Baathist and wahhabi Salafists easily change cloths from baathists scum to deash scum.

 

[SALMAN F]

Both actually since the premise of killing someone for being “Sufi” wouldn’t sell 300 years ago, virtually all Sunni society had Sufi leanings.

They are also staunch supporters of the khalifa being Arab, that’s why you have Arab nationalists, Baathist and wahhabi Salafists easily change cloths from baathists scum to deash scum.

Hanafi school doesn't mind if the khalifah was not an arabs

Ottomans continued to use the sultan title more than the khalifah title

 

[Nein]

When the Abbassids declined you had many Islamic Empires and Kingdoms before the First Crusade. You had a few that pledged allegiance to the Abbassids and recognised them as Caliphs but ruled independantly from the Abbassids like the Seljuks, Ayyubids and the Ghaznavids.

I wonder how that could play out in the modern world if such a scenario did happen.