What has Democracy solve for India? Lesson for us.

[Joe Shearer]

Indushek, even Joe is entitled to have some fun and leg pulling, right? Take it easy.

Who knows?

Perhaps he really thinks I'll do what I threatened to. I bet he'll never go alone to the movies alone again.

 

[indushek]

Indushek, even Joe is entitled to have some fun and leg pulling, right? Take it easy.

Yes yes it was really funny. I laughed my head off.

 

[indushek]

Who knows?

Perhaps he really thinks I'll do what I threatened to. I bet he'll never go alone to the movies alone again.

Yes you are very right, now that u have clarified it was all funny i am so relieved and was waiting from two days hiding in my closet, afraid of every sound i heard hoping that u would not come.

 

[indushek]

I don't go rude in my comments too soon even if the others do so (particularly from whom i try to learn) but i think i will have to put an end to such practises here, whatever respect this fellow had he has lost it from me.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Who knows?

Perhaps he really thinks I'll do what I threatened to. I bet he'll never go alone to the movies alone again.

Come on guys, it was clearly an honest mistake.

We were discussing Singapore and the system of governance, which happens to be quite similar to the one in Hong Kong. There are plenty of other similarities between Singapore and Hong Kong, for example, both are Chinese majority city-states that were once administered by the British, and are both highly developed financial centers.

Others have made the same mistake before, and I'm sure it will happen again. It's hardly an insult to be mistaken for Singapore, Singapore is awesome.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Come on guys, it was clearly an honest mistake.

We were discussing Singapore and the system of governance, which happens to be quite similar to the one in Hong Kong. There are plenty of other similarities between Singapore and Hong Kong, for example, both are Chinese majority city-states that were once administered by the British, and are both highly developed financial centers.

Others have made the same mistake before, and I'm sure it will happen again. It's hardly an insult to be mistaken for Singapore, Singapore is awesome.

1. I didn't think it particularly honest. He has made a comment some months ago in which he showed perfect awareness of what Singapore was.
2. Having seen that, it seemed a fit case for a leg-pull. However, the response was a dogged defence.
3. We are all spending time on a stupid matter. As far as I am concerned, it's closed. I suspect that these 'mistakes' won't occur again. Not for another blue moon.

 

[ThatDamnGood]

Come on guys, it was clearly an honest mistake.

We were discussing Singapore and the system of governance, which happens to be quite similar to the one in Hong Kong. There are plenty of other similarities between Singapore and Hong Kong, for example, both are Chinese majority city-states that were once administered by the British, and are both highly developed financial centers.

Others have made the same mistake before, and I'm sure it will happen again. It's hardly an insult to be mistaken for Singapore, Singapore is awesome.

When the soup and starter has been won, they are left to fight over dessert.

"Singapore is awesome". - These people in Singapore would disagree.

THE TEMASEK REVIEW

 

[indushek]

1. I didn't think it particularly honest. He has made a comment some months ago in which he showed perfect awareness of what Singapore was.
2. Having seen that, it seemed a fit case for a leg-pull. However, the response was a dogged defence.
3. We are all spending time on a stupid matter. As far as I am concerned, it's closed. I suspect that these 'mistakes' won't occur again. Not for another blue moon.

Don't keep up too much with this care taker $hit for long. Leave aside moons and weekends, i don't care two hoots what u think about my posts.

From now on try to avoid me which would be better for u. If still u want to hang on with the crap u are most welcome , i would love to see who pulls whose legs.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Don't keep up too much with this care taker $hit for long. Leave aside moons and weekends, i don't care two hoots what u think about my posts.

From now on try to avoid me which would be better for u. If still u want to hang on with the crap u are most welcome , i would love to see who pulls whose legs.

Oh, really? And what about this exchange, where you've gone on record indicating that you aren't such an innocent after all?

Involve Israel and Singapore in the MCA project
Dear fellow countrymen, I was thinking that as our country is advancing towards military development and we are developing our own stealth fighter, we must involve in a couple of close allies to speed up the project.

We should continue developing the entire MCA ourselves with our knowledge but if it involves in foreign allies, it would mean:

1) A strong strategic base reiterating our foreign policy

2) Faster work as partners would be keen to induct the fighter incase our government becomes slow--they would act as accelerators

3) Singapore and Israel are both strategically beneficial for us--- Israel is one of the strongest technological contributor to our military while Singapore is one of the top 5 allies in the Indian Ocean Regions.

There are two reasons why I mentioned Singapore and Israel specifically:

1- both the countries have warm ties with us
2- they don't pose any strategic threat to us even in long term
3- they are safe enough to be given our source codes to modify their versions of MCA as they want

The benefits these two coutnries have would be:

*) Israel was recently rumored to be rejected for the F-15 Silent Eagle; Russia isn't that close with them while European weapons are too expensive for their small defense budget. So they can get reinforcements for their F-35s that they will receive from USA replacing their older F-15 'Neshers'.

If they join the MCA program, it will strengthen our ties with them, we can share some of their advanced know-how in exchange for giving them access to source codes and also mend our recent diplomatic blunder that our government made by condemning Israeli action (As a neutral country, our government could have remained silent and refused to comment).


*) Singapore has aquired latest F-15s but needs to replace its F-16s in the near future. They are a financially well off country and also an advanced technological hub having strong military ties with us.

Asking them to join the project would mean additional technical know-how, better inter-operability and SAF earning themselves a good stealth fighter at reasonable cost effectiveness.

What do you think?

Re: Involve Israel and Singapore in the MCA project
Good idea Singapore could be involved but regarding Israel i doubt it if our people will allow it??

And this from somebody who a few weeks later thinks Singapore is a part of China, an autonomous territory, having recently won independence from Britain.

If you've made a mistake, it's OK to say so, to apologise and to promise not to do it again. It isn't OK to lie and try and get out of a corner which your own mistake has got you into.

What a dishonest sicko.

 

[CardSharp]

Oh, really? And what about this exchange, where you've gone on record indicating that you aren't such an innocent after all?



And this from somebody who a few weeks later thinks Singapore is a part of China, an autonomous territory, having recently won independence from Britain.

If you've made a mistake, it's OK to say so, to apologise and to promise not to do it again. It isn't OK to lie and try and get out of a corner which your own mistake has got you into.

What a dishonest sicko.

This is just weird. If he's done it on purpose, I don't quite understand the humour behind it.

 

[LaBong]

I think he hasn't done it on purpose, just a slip of finger.

 

[indushek]

Oh, really? And what about this exchange, where you've gone on record indicating that you aren't such an innocent after all?



And this from somebody who a few weeks later thinks Singapore is a part of China, an autonomous territory, having recently won independence from Britain.

If you've made a mistake, it's OK to say so, to apologise and to promise not to do it again. It isn't OK to lie and try and get out of a corner which your own mistake has got you into.

What a dishonest sicko.

This is the last time i am going to reply to these insinuations, it was a mistake done by me and i agree to it honestly. .Also i was replying from my office system which i do when i am free, infact my boss always talks about my bad habit of browsing which i am so addicted to. And i have apologised to one and all immediately regarding the mistake we speak of. Thanks to u i realized my mistake. Infact i was unaware of it till u pointed out. That is the truth. As i clearly pointed out in the heat of the argument i mistook one for one. There is no need for me to do point scoring, what is the use of it?? to whom do i want to do this as you put it leg pulling to what end?? have you ever seen me talking negatively against anybody till now unless the situation warrants??

Regarding the post where i talked about partnership with Singapore i also want to make something clear. I am not at all knowledged in defence matters till i came here, infact my entry here was because of news on MRCA competition which i eagerly follow about. For some time i used to read the threads here and was impressed by people's defence knowledge and joined this forum. This is the fiirst forum i have ever joined, prior to this i wasn't much active online even, by which i mean yahoo chat clubs which were a raze in my Intermediate times.

Even now i accept that i have the least knowledge when compared to even newbies here on defence matters. I am an accountant and i have no technical knowledge. Over the time the discussions by people like you and other intelligent ones like Sparkling way , Kinetic, muse (he has excellent idea about strategic issues in south east asia and i always follow his threads) recently this guy Vcheng and many others inspired to me participate. I have also seen the negative side of trollers and have always kept my self away from such crap. This i am not saying to impress you or any body, because i need not as this is place where i want to know about defence matters and some strategic issues which i try to work my lazy brain to some extent, besides that i have my own life and my survival. Particularly the thread in which u spoke about 1962 war really impressed me about the knowledge one could possess on such matters. However it wasn't always without the impression that you side with the Chinese but i tried to learn what i could since i am not a youngster any more.

I will also like to add that recently the visceral nature in threads has been going up like anything, certain posts have left really bad feeling in my mouth. Infact it is feeling suffocating some times here. Probably due to my over indulgence here, i spend 4 to 5 hours daily. I intend to reduce this as my priorities are more and more getting compromised.

Even if after this long and boring explanation u feel i have done it wantonly i have nothing more to add. From now on i intend to spend less time here as it seems even my nature seems to be getting affected by the hatred being shown here. So long.

 

[huzihaidao12]

In any case, Joe, you are impressive, but it seems there are still some Indians do not understand that how important the admitted attitude to our situation. But in any case, that there are other Indians such as you, know this, I think that at least some comfort to the Chinese members.

 

[huzihaidao12]

Wise to use in the right place, just some suggestions.

 

[Joe Shearer]

This is the last time i am going to reply to these insinuations, it was a mistake done by me and i agree to it honestly.

These were not insinuations, an act to which I would not stoop. I will not hint at wrong-doing, unless I am able to show that there was serious ground for my thinking so.

It started with a feeling of irritation, which was sought to be converted to some school-boyish humour, probably not the best way to make my objections known. Once the exchanges started, I was angry enough to seek a direct confrontation of what I thought at the time was at one level a lie, at another level a display of an egregious lack of respect for the rest of us.

If it was an honest mistake, and you have said this with emphasis a second time now, I have no problem with accepting your word for it and burying the matter once and for all.

Also i was replying from my office system which i do when i am free, infact my boss always talks about my bad habit of browsing which i am so addicted to. And i have apologised to one and all immediately regarding the mistake we speak of. Thanks to u i realized my mistake. Infact i was unaware of it till u pointed out. That is the truth. As i clearly pointed out in the heat of the argument i mistook one for one. There is no need for me to do point scoring, what is the use of it?? to whom do i want to do this as you put it leg pulling to what end?? have you ever seen me talking negatively against anybody till now unless the situation warrants??

Please calm down.

I accept that it was an honest mistake, and take back what I said about it before.

Regarding the post where i talked about partnership with Singapore i also want to make something clear. I am not at all knowledged in defence matters till i came here, infact my entry here was because of news on MRCA competition which i eagerly follow about. For some time i used to read the threads here and was impressed by people's defence knowledge and joined this forum. This is the fiirst forum i have ever joined, prior to this i wasn't much active online even, by which i mean yahoo chat clubs which were a raze in my Intermediate times.

Even now i accept that i have the least knowledge when compared to even newbies here on defence matters. I am an accountant and i have no technical knowledge. Over the time the discussions by people like you and other intelligent ones like Sparkling way , Kinetic, muse (he has excellent idea about strategic issues in south east asia and i always follow his threads) recently this guy Vcheng and many others inspired to me participate.

Again, and this repeatedly approaching a person is not an exercise that I am accustomed to do, I hope you will continue to participate.

I have also seen the negative side of trollers and have always kept my self away from such crap. This i am not saying to impress you or any body, because i need not as this is place where i want to know about defence matters and some strategic issues which i try to work my lazy brain to some extent, besides that i have my own life and my survival. Particularly the thread in which u spoke about 1962 war really impressed me about the knowledge one could possess on such matters. However it wasn't always without the impression that you side with the Chinese but i tried to learn what i could since i am not a youngster any more.

This needs an explanation.

If we do not learn from our mistakes, we will be doomed to suffer from those again and again.

Neither the Indian Army under Indian leadership, nor the Pakistan Army under Pakistani leadership has ever fought a serious war. The biggest and longest confrontation has been at Army level, involving several Corps, for periods of time never exceeding 60 days.

To learn what we are up against, look up the PLA in Wikipedia. I suggest Wikipedia for no other reason than that I want you to get a quick overview of the matter. Personally, I approached the matter from a different angle, from the angle of the CPC, and of its struggle against the KMT on the one hand, and against the Japanese Army in its full strength on the other. It got to the stage where knowing where and how a topic was described in Mao Ze Dong's On War was easy. That book is an equal of Sun Tzu, I think, only written for modern times, to instruct military leaders of all kinds, but with an emphasis on guerrilla warfare: the Great Helmsman was a military expert, just some degree short of a genius like Napoleon or Alexander.

The PLA seems to have degenerated very subtly in terms of strategic thinking and general ability at war-fighting, ironically, even as its technical and logistical capabilities grew. While it remains one of the world's most formidable forces, with a clear vision of its future in warfare, and where it wishes to be at different times in the future, there is that nagging sense that it has lost the thinking edge it had over everyone else, including the Americans.

This is, of course, my personal opinion.

I came to that conclusion after a very careful comparison of the PLA campaigns in 62 against the Indian Army, and its campaigns against the Vietnamese. A comparative study of the two is very revealing for an Indian.

Even while I hope and will actively work for a peaceful resolution to all Sino-Indian issues, if peaceful resolution is not possible, for whatever reason, we should not be found unprepared for a repeat of the 'punishment' that the PLA handed out.

To be prepared to face this possibility, we need to have our military doctrine in place - it is nowhere visible, other than that of the Indian Navy doctrine - integrated land and air troops, where relevant, integrated land, air and sea troops, always under unified command, equipped completely to deliver mission objectives, and always trained, trained extensively, for their role. In addition, I humbly submit that we need to visualise possible future scenarios and review the disposition of our forces: out of 33 active divisions in the IA, nearly 22 are deployed against Pakistan, and 11 against China! How ridiculous! Nothing wrong with the Western front, but to combat a possible concentration of 25 to 30 PLA divisions with a strength of 11 divisions is a joke. And finally, building infrastructure in the entire north-east and the north-west has become quite critical. This includes road, rail and aircraft landing strips; it includes more electricity, more work-shops, more technical training institutes, more civil engineers, more of everything!

Regarding other aspects of my dealing with any national group, it has been my effort to give them the respect that is their due,whether at the level of a group or at an individual level.

Finally, I was never allowed, either by the thread originator or by any other participant, in spite of several hints, to set down my views on the original claims by other side to the pieces of rock that caused this skirmish. Pity. I had done some sincere research, the results are interesting, and all that will have to wait.

To sum up, relations with and attitudes towards 'Chinese' members of the forum (many of them Canadians, Hong Kong citizens, or Singaporeans, British, Americans or Australasians) was not part of this discussion, but the matter having been raised, I claim my right to respond to it.

If being polite and civil to an entire group, while acknowledging the right of the PRC to have been heard with greater attention and respect, and less devious manoeuvring for better position, without denying the rights of the Indian state in the original matter, beneath the veneer of inappropriate behaviour and unnecessary sly behaviour, is 'siding with the Chinese', that is a display of jingoism which I reject. On the other hand, it seems to me to be the only self-respecting way to behave.

But these are all personal choices, and we display our inner selves in making these choices. I have no problems with what others display of themselves, I am sure of what I wish to display and why. "Suaviter in modo, fortiter in re."

I will also like to add that recently the visceral nature in threads has been going up like anything, certain posts have left really bad feeling in my mouth. Infact it is feeling suffocating some times here. Probably due to my over indulgence here, i spend 4 to 5 hours daily. I intend to reduce this as my priorities are more and more getting compromised.

Even if after this long and boring explanation u feel i have done it wantonly i have nothing more to add. From now on i intend to spend less time here as it seems even my nature seems to be getting affected by the hatred being shown here. So long.

The explanation was passionate and eloquent, and personally speaking, convincing. Utterly convincing.

Your decision on how long to spend on line is your personal decision. I agree that more than two hours on line can be harmful. But nobody can order you off the board or on the board. This can no longer be a reason for staying away, given the explanation offered and accepted. It is surely better to participate and to quell the visceral exchanges by behaving in a rational and scrupulously factual manner instead.