What happened to Kaveri engine?

[Goku-kun]

What's bitter for me if UAE invests Pakistan.

I hope that this conversation will continue in a peaceful way without abusing etc and now for your words that what's bitter for you than I should remind you that modi wanted to isolate us but his plan doesn't seem to work at all,not even an inch.

Again, the 13 years old nationalist. What their keenness to invest in renewable energy has to do with India (Nevertheless India itself is second largest prouducer of renewable energy)?
Isolation is a relative term but again, our debate was regrading technological prowess in missiles.
I can quantify as well as explain my points, you guys just are quoting random links to somehow deem Indian sector to be incompetent against Pakistani R&D (doesn't exist).

Not wanna offend, but here you are acting like you are at war with me on this keyboard.

again you are forgetting what your PM said regarding us so this isn't going on according to his policy.

You are too young to debate with me. You started to Google things, news and joined Pakistani troll gang on local forum. Not much above the standard of a YouTube keyboard warrior.
You have way hell too much trolled me since start with this kiddish boasting & comments.

I am too young for debate or are you too proud to accept the truth? maybe I'm not using correct words to get hings in your mind and if tagged any senior member than you will learn the entire truth.Basically it's your arrogance and indian versions of sciences,politics etc.There was another thread about 'RCS of f-22/Pak-FA' with many seniors and professionals and an indian with his nuisannce that rafale is superior to f-22 and they were trying to explain him in most simplest terms but he wasn't getting it and let me tell you that seniors weren't just Pakistanis but Americans too so this is the stupidity or nuisance you guys offer in every thread which is intolerable.

 

[Indx-techs]

That's why I am asking, I am not as 'technically competent' as you. . So what is this Indian VCE? At what stage is it?

VCE stands for Variable Cycle Engine.
The design is such like that, that the inlet airflow volume can be manipulated to a very high degree and by pass systems can be utilized to change the entire engine cycle within flight.
You could change your engine from turbofan to a turbojet or a supercruise immediately post that.
Kaveri's design itself is a VCE.
Now, comes problem with its realization. Unlike space rocket engines which are expendable in just one flight, an aircraft has 3000-5000 flights, sometimes even 10,000 throughout its life.
The continuous force of thousands of newtons at high temperature causes creep in body while temperature and ambient humidity causes accelerated oxidation of alloy (also known as hot corrosion).

India's okay with production of small thrust turbofans hence listed among global production of turbofans in annexure I posted. It's problem is with big jet engines and that even purely with material.

Over the years, Western countries & USSR/Russia have developed nickel based superalloys to overcome it. India's new to metallurgy, we developed DMD3 & 4 superalloys although they weren't that capable and this the reason Kaveri was underpowered.
India designed successfully but doesn't have correct grade of metal.

I hope that this conversation will continue in a peaceful way without abusing etc and now for your words that what's bitter for you

Nothing is bitter for me. I'm a defence enthusiast. But I was expecting responses on a defence forum. Not popular narratives from juvenile. Facebookiyas give me enough of them.

than I should remind you that modi wanted to isolate us but his plan doesn't seem to work at all,not even an inch.

again you are forgetting what your PM said regarding us so this isn't going on according to his policy.

First, as I told before, isolation is a relative term. Rough quantification of this degree of isolation can be judged by a set of actions of third parties where they themselves cite both countries' narrative as basis of their judgement or best is war.
Isolation is about who is given "preference" or one country alone is often despised by international organizations citing (for example) terrorism issues, is insulted summoned sanctioned.

It is also dependent on political and military support. The FDI in "renewable energy" has nothing to do with isolation as even sanctioned countries get it often.

Political withstanding reflects, like number of votes in membership of NSG or UNSC and you will be able to see the gap. Nevermind, India's diplomatic network is much bigger than Pak.

Plus, isolation wasn't the topic. This thread was going with a turbofan where somebody started claiming Pakistan to be ahead in missile technology. Instead of listing listing up Indian missiles as chart is longer & broader, I chose a more proper way to quantify the capability but citing number of missile technologies we produce.
You somehow guided it to India's delayed military projects, Pakistan's "hidden power" and renewable energy.

I am too young for debate or are you too proud to accept the truth? maybe I'm not using correct words to get hings in your mind and if tagged any senior member than you will learn the entire truth.

Now, don't complain that I call you too young. Basically, you have a certain narrative which you tend to believe and declare everything else as false to feel comfortable.
You aren't able to contradict any damn thing, just want me accept your nationalistic "truth".

I'm tired of putting argument after argument, if you're going to pull it like it, don't even do further.

Basically it's your arrogance and indian versions of sciences,politics etc.

What is your "version" at first place? Science is no version and politics has perspectives.

I've been on a lot forums, studied lot narratives and have acknowledged India's shortcomings. You here, the new guy on politics with one limited narrative on politics, zero exposure to related technologies hasn't studied the nuclear doctrine & policy of your country, has trolled me really hard.
So, basically what "truth" I've to accept? Le'me guess:

1. Pakistan has only funding problem (nevermind itself never allocated money) otherwise would have put flags on entire planet & celestial bodies.
2. No matter what about specifications & roles, Pakistani missile program is best in world.
3. Pakistan has strongest foreign relations while India is an isolated state. Any preference in international issues, votes for supernational bodies or even size of diplomatic network doesn't represent the situation but FDI in Pakistan's renewable energy does it.
4. India's entire deterrence spectrum is only & only concentrated in South Asia despite its assets are far beyond. In fact, entire world's geopolitics spins around here.
5. India after pouring billions & decades in every field has failed for a reason we don't know. Pakistan is ahead in everything for a reason we again don't know. It's just been hiding its power for a reason we don't know.
6. Pakistan's support to JKLF or Taliban holds righteousness while Indian for Mukti Bahini and BLA is an act terrorism, for a reason, we all again don't know.

There was another thread about 'RCS of f-22/Pak-FA' with many seniors and professionals and an indian with his nuisannce that rafale is superior to f-22 and they were trying to explain him in most simplest terms but he wasn't getting it and let me tell you that seniors weren't just Pakistanis but Americans too so this is the stupidity or nuisance you guys offer in every thread which is intolerable.

I'm pretty sure that you haven't ever been to American Military Forum, Sinodefence or Russian military forums.
Rafael is an air superiority fighter and discussion was going on comparing the firepower of jets. You didn't even read the content they had written, and just came straight to me complaining it, me who has nothing to do with discussion.
Hope it helps,
Ad hominem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Anyways, I'm not going to let it twist anymore.
Here it is,
Thread: What happened to Kaveri engine?
And your crappy response. It's called nuisance actually.

LOL we have develop Babur where you are deciding that when to cancel your nirbhay cruise missile project after 4 successful failures and passing all deadlines so you are a fine one to talk LOL.The only reason why we aren't able to develop engine is of funds otherwise our NESCOM is more than capable to build an engine.

This is our topic, let's discuss it.
I'm restarting discussion from first part of post from reply I given to @Han Patriot.

Stay on topic and don't need to waste time in quoting rest of my post because I won't reply to that part again it being off topic.
According to you, NESCOM is capable of making jet engines if funded. As even China & India had metallurgical problems due to low experience, Pakistan seems to have already single crystal nickel based superalloys according to you?
BTW, Nirbhay wasn't ever cancelled.

 

[Goku-kun]

India's okay with production of small thrust turbofans hence listed among global production of turbofans in annexure I posted. It's problem is with big jet engines and that even purely with material.

which turbofans have you produced till this date?
kaveri: not active..signed deal with france for support in building it
manik: not active
so which else engine is it?

Nothing is bitter for me. I'm a defence enthusiast.

I'm one too but I have leaned to accept the facts which you haven't.

First, as I told before, isolation is a relative term. Rough quantification of this degree of isolation can be judged by a set of actions of third parties where they themselves cite both countries' narrative as basis of their judgement or best is war.
Isolation is about who is given "preference" or one country alone is often despised by international organizations citing (for example) terrorism issues, is insulted summoned sanctioned.

you are making it hard for your own self so let me make it easy for you.In layman terms isolate would mean to 'to remain alone or apart from others' is the simplest meaning I can give you and when modi told his people that he will isolate us he meant: 'to infamous us in the world,declare us dangerous place to visit,declare us as danger for investments' and his other impure thoughts regarding us.

Now, don't complain that I call you too young. Basically, you have a certain narrative which you tend to believe and declare everything else as false to feel comfortable.
You aren't able to contradict any damn thing, just want me accept your nationalistic "truth".

I'm tired of putting argument after argument, if you're going to pull it like it, don't even do further.

hey! these are my lines so no stealing.

What is your "version" at first place? Science is no version and politics has perspectives.

I've been on a lot forums, studied lot narratives and have acknowledged India's shortcomings. You here, the new guy on politics with one limited narrative on politics, zero exposure to related technologies hasn't studied the nuclear doctrine & policy of your country, has trolled me really hard.
So, basically what "truth" I've to accept? Le'me guess:

1. Pakistan has only funding problem (nevermind itself never allocated money) otherwise would have put flags on entire planet & celestial bodies.
2. No matter what about specifications & roles, Pakistani missile program is best in world.
3. Pakistan has strongest foreign relations while India is an isolated state. Any preference in international issues, votes for supernational bodies or even size of diplomatic network doesn't represent the situation but FDI in Pakistan's renewable energy does it.
4. India's entire deterrence spectrum is only & only concentrated in South Asia despite its assets are far beyond. In fact, entire world's geopolitics spins around here.
5. India after pouring billions & decades in every field has failed for a reason we don't know. Pakistan is ahead in everything for a reason we again don't know. It's just been hiding its power for a reason we don't know.
6. Pakistan's support to JKLF or Taliban holds righteousness while Indian for Mukti Bahini and BLA is an act terrorism, for a reason, we all again don't know.

my version is same as that of world's but yours isn't .I know my country far better than yours and why don't you search for the thread and have a view of how he is getting trolled due to same garbage thinking as that of yours.
1)Yah that's truth.
2)Indeed it is and that's the reason that when our enemy purchases 7 batteries of s-400 it plans to deploy 5 batteries on our border and rest on China's
3)No we don't and that's the reason india continues the brutal killings in a proudful way in Kashmir and world remains silent on it
4rth and 5th aren't worth replying and are lame.
6)Well, we haven't broken a country like india which is against the charters of UN and first learn about taliban and its categories than come back and talk and currently you are suffering from 67 independence movements which are more than your total 28 provinces so if we want to break you than we just need to burn a match stick and entire india would be in tatters like trash.

This is our topic, let's discuss it.
I'm restarting discussion from first part of post from reply I given to @Han Patriot.

Stay on topic and don't need to waste time in quoting rest of my post because I won't reply to that part again it being off topic.
According to you, NESCOM is capable of making jet engines if funded. As even China & India had metallurgical problems due to low experience, Pakistan seems to have already single crystal nickel based superalloys according to you?
BTW, Nirbhay wasn't ever cancelled.

It isn't but there is news that your government is planning to cancel it and then they would go for Tomahawk or Kalibr.
yah now lets back to topic.Who is saying that we won't face hurdles but if there are funds than we can start developing parts of engines that's what I said and than sort problems out.

 

[Han Patriot]

VCE stands for Variable Cycle Engine.
The design is such like that, that the inlet airflow volume can be manipulated to a very high degree and by pass systems can be utilized to change the entire engine cycle within flight.
You could change your engine from turbofan to a turbojet or a supercruise immediately post that.
Kaveri's design itself is a VCE.
Now, comes problem with its realization. Unlike space rocket engines which are expendable in just one flight, an aircraft has 3000-5000 flights, sometimes even 10,000 throughout its life.
The continuous force of thousands of newtons at high temperature causes creep in body while temperature and ambient humidity causes accelerated oxidation of alloy (also known as hot corrosion).

India's okay with production of small thrust turbofans hence listed among global production of turbofans in annexure I posted. It's problem is with big jet engines and that even purely with material.

Over the years, Western countries & USSR/Russia have developed nickel based superalloys to overcome it. India's new to metallurgy, we developed DMD3 & 4 superalloys although they weren't that capable and this the reason Kaveri was underpowered.
India designed successfully but doesn't have correct grade of metal.

How do you designed something successfully if it is not made and tested? ooo the Indian logic is really amazing. You talk so much explaining to me what is a VCE engine which I can google easily, my assumption was correct, it's stuck at the CAD stage.

Do you know we have been desigining and building engines for decades? Yes, that includes low thrust turbofans for missiles. We had single crystal blades since the 80s, so what?

 

[Indx-techs]

which turbofans have you produced till this date?
kaveri: not active..signed deal with france for support in building it
manik: not active
so which else engine is it?

India earlier modified Orpheus 703.
And later on came up with GTX 37 14UB.

Every version of Kaveri is a turbofan engine in itself. Whether its underpowered to support the intended aircraft is a different matter because a bit smaller aircraft would have flown easily.
As for Manik, its a small one. So, won't be taking anymore than integration.

I'm one too but I have leaned to accept the facts which you haven't.

Narrative and belief system. For you, your statement & declaration is fact. You are desperate to get someone admiting because it makes you feel comfortable.

In layman terms isolate would mean to 'to remain alone or apart from others' is the simplest meaning I can give you and when modi told his people that he will isolate us he meant: 'to infamous us in the world,declare us dangerous place to visit,declare us as danger for investments' and his other impure thoughts regarding us.

"Total isolation" is the state you'll keep asserting regardless of "degree of isolation" to be deemed.

hey! these are my lines so no stealing.

Kiddish
For part again I note quoted ever bother to study about air defense systems and how much of part of Indian inventory 5 batteries of S-400 form.

yah now lets back to topic.Who is saying that we won't face hurdles but if there are funds than we can start developing parts of engines that's what I said.

Here

LOL.The only reason why we aren't able to develop engine is of funds otherwise our NESCOM is more than capable to build an engine.

We miss deadlines for project which are actually difficult and any country most certainly misses.

How do you designed something successfully if it is not made and tested? ooo the Indian logic is really amazing. You talk so much explaining to me what is a VCE engine which I can google easily, my assumption was correct, it's stuck at the CAD stage.

Dear, I know that you've been running high on weed for a while but didn't that you'll go that low?

Now, you need a simularitor or trial run to demonstrate fluid dynamics? That's epic!

Do you know we have been desigining and building engines for decades? Yes, that includes low thrust turbofans for missiles. We had single crystal blades since the 80s, so what?

For how much thrust again? AFAIK, for jets you still had been a major customer of NPO Saturn. J10 & 11.
And as usual, replicated in WS series.

 

[Goku-kun]

As for Manik, its a small one. So, won't be taking anymore than integration.

manik was primarily being developed as a future engine for nirbhay but when nirbhay won't remain than so will manik.

Narrative and belief system. For you, your statement & declaration is fact. You are desperate to get someone admiting because it makes you feel comfortable.

either it's kiddish or not but these are my lines and suit you and your country.

We miss deadlines for project which are actually difficult and any country most certainly misses.

It's same in almost every project of yours.No country takes this much time and in every project.

 

[Han Patriot]

For how much thrust again? AFAIK, for jets you still had been a major customer of NPO Saturn. J10 & 11.
And as usual, replicated in WS series.

Exactly my point, even after so much work and experience, we are only competent with low thrust turbofan until recently and yet you have the audacity to claim you are ahead with not a single working engine in place. Don't I need to slap you up to reality?

 

[Indx-techs]

manik was primarily being developed as a future engine for nirbhay but when nirbhay won't remain than so will manik.

Who told you Nirbhay won't be there.

either it's kiddish or not but these are my lines and suit you and your country.

As far as I can see, its you who's just straight putting lame statements for your narrative.
I'm able put essay like explanations & references for everything.

It's same in almost every project of yours.No country takes this much time and in every project.

Factually incorrect.
This one's only for 4G fighters.

The FOC LCA is far more advanced than one envisaged earlier and was delayed because IAF kept on changing requirements year on year.

Timeline is so on other major strategic projects.
India has successfully forayed into most aspects of military tech which remain untouched by Pakistan but again, you are going to give excuse of budget for everything.

For turbofans, I'd love to see Pakistan deals with it. Le'me add, India & Pakistan's environments make it more difficult for us to fly low bypass engines like US, Russia, Europe or China.

We will have to start with high bypass on first attempt.

Exactly my point, even after so much work and experience, we are only competent with low thrust turbofan until recently

Yeah, and you are only good with low bypass turbofans recently.

Indian environment's high ambient temperature drops thrust in core and hence Kaveri is only engine in world with three spool core. As a result more airflow at higher temperature in core is needed which accelerates corrosion of blades.


I'd love to see how WS-15 performs in Indian environment. Ever come in an air show.

Kaveri design is among most advanced in world, even without flying.

and yet you have the audacity to claim you are ahead with not a single working engine in place. Don't I need to slap you up to reality?

So, basically you aren't bothered with any military related issues & technicalities.
You just have to come here, confirm cheap Russian copies flying and then start trolling declaring yourself ahead.

Okay, its going on, forget everything, let's troll.
Coz on ground, trolls like you don't even know a bit about engines you are boasting off. You're just here to thump chest for work by other people.

 

[Goku-kun]

Who told you Nirbhay won't be there.

You call yourself a defence enthusiast but you don't follow the daily news on your defence.Your government is planning to cancel nirbhay project as it's taking too much time and planning to opt either Tomahawk or kalibr.

As far as I can see, its you who's just straight putting lame statements for your narrative.
I'm able put essay like explanations & references for everything.

again telling a lie.You are all talk and no reference to base your talk.

Factually incorrect.
This one's only for 4G fighters.

The FOC LCA is far more advanced than one envisaged earlier and was delayed because IAF kept on changing requirements year on year.

It makes sense for the fighters like f-22,35 and rafale,eurofighter to take that much duration.Don't tell me that you consider a plane which is mounted on truck at your parades and shown as a first ground fighter equivalent to those big guns?

 

[Indx-techs]

You call yourself a defence enthusiast but you don't follow the daily news on your defence.Your government is planning to cancel nirbhay project as it's taking too much time and planning to opt either Tomahawk or kalibr.

You follow selective news, I do entire.

For kaliber, I know of this drama by Russian lobby for years. MTCR won't allow a long range cruise missile to be sold so project can't be shed FYI as the window of this aspect of deterrence will remain open.

Its, common sense Nirbhay - N (Naval) has been ruled out plan, not Nirbhay.
LRCM can't be purchased from abroad so project won't be closed.

India has been adding up new FFGs & DDGs and Navy needs cruise missiles to deploy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Indian_Navy_ships

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_the_Indian_Navy

again telling a lie.You are all talk and no reference to base your talk.

I guess I've provided MTCR link explaining techs. For political bs, I can quote 100s of articles for other perspective if you can select articles of your perspective from media outlets.

It makes sense for the fighters like f-22,35 and rafale,eurofighter to take that much duration.

These all particularly air superiority or multirole fighters seeding the new technologies in respective countries they didn't have earlier.

Again, what's the status of aeronautical advancement & aerospace exports of Pakistan?

Don't tell me that you consider a plane which is mounted on truck at your parades and shown as a first ground fighter equivalent to those big guns?

If getting the model mounted on truck for showcasing in parade somehow boosts your ego, I cant help you, nor to myself watching JFTs parked on roads.

LCA has already been flying in airshows.

 

[Goku-kun]

These all particularly air superiority or multirole fighters seeding the new technologies in respective countries they didn't have earlier.

Again, what's the status of aeronautical advancement & aerospace exports of Pakistan?

open the link and see the number of users of this trainer and it will answer your question about our exports and on the other hand who is buying your dhuruv choppers,kiran trainers and many AFVs you claim to built indigenously.
Our Al-Khalid is in use of bangladesh, APC saad used by countries.
PAC Super Mushshak - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAC_Super_Mushshak

I guess I've provided MTCR link explaining techs. For political bs, I can quote 100s of articles for other perspective if you can select articles of your perspective from media outlets.

I would appreciate if you provide those links.

If getting the model mounted on truck for showcasing in parade somehow boosts your ego, I cant help you, nor to myself watching JFTs parked on roads.

LCA has already been flying in airshows.

Don't try to divert the topic dude.We both know that in what sense I wrote that comment i.e: when you compare tejas with big guns.

LCA has already been flying in airshows.

except Bahrain air show what other show has tejas performed in? Should I tell about our thunders record in air shows?

You follow selective news, I do entire.

For kaliber, I know of this drama by Russian lobby for years. MTCR won't allow a long range cruise missile to be sold so project can't be shed FYI as the window of this aspect of deterrence will remain open.

Its, common sense Nirbhay - N (Naval) has been ruled out plan, not Nirbhay.
LRCM can't be purchased from abroad so project won't be closed.

India has been adding up new FFGs & DDGs and Navy needs cruise missiles to deploy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Indian_Navy_ships

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_the_Indian_Navy

for your information MTCR members can exchange long range missile and that's the only reason you are able to opt s-400's longest range missile 406NE missile which China can't.

 

[Indx-techs]

open the link and see the number of users of this trainer and it will answer your question about our exports and on the other hand who is buying your dhuruv choppers,kiran trainers and many AFVs you claim to built indigenously.
Our Al-Khalid is in use of bangladesh, APC saad used by countries.
PAC Super Mushshak - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAC_Super_Mushshak

Quantify exports.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_aircraft_and_spacecraft_exports

India doesn't export finished stuff but avionics & parts, higher in monetary value.
Defense exports vary from $150 millions to $450 millions /year depending upon if orders are placed.

I would appreciate if you provide those links.

http://mtcr.info/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/MTCR-Handbook-2017-INDEXED-FINAL-Digital.pdf

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_(international_relations)

Don't try to divert the topic dude.We both know that in what sense I wrote that comment i.e: when you compare tejas with big guns.

I didn't divert it in anyway.

These all particularly air superiority or multirole fighters seeding the new technologies in respective countries they didn't have earlier.

I repeat seeding the new technologies they didn't have earlier.

Even Chinese projects flying this time were actually conceived in 70s.

except Bahrain air show what other show has tejas performed in? Should I tell about our thunders record in air shows?

Although, I didn't wish to foray in this vs drama, our JFT & our Al Khalid
First, JFT is a beefed up MiG-21, specs that would be rejected by IAF, purchased because PAF had to catch up in numbers. Tejas is over IAF's expectations of a ground attack & interceptor.

Second, Indian projects are independent at most instants unlike Pakistani Joint Ventures.
So, unless you are able envisage requirements & attempt designing independently, you aren't supposed to compare.

for your information MTCR members can exchange long range missile and that's the only reason you are able to opt s-400's longest range missile 406NE missile which China can't.

Even MTCR won't let the transfer go beyond 600-650kms.

 

[Goku-kun]

Quantify exports.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_aircraft_and_spacecraft_exports

India doesn't export finished stuff but avionics & parts, higher in monetary value.
Defense exports vary from $150 millions to $450 millions /year depending upon if orders are placed.

that's probably due to more labour.

 

[Indx-techs]

that's probably due to more labour.

??

 

[ssethii]

What's bitter for me if UAE invests Pakistan.

Proofs? Or individual sources?
Indian forces have different requirements and that keep changing every year pushing project ahead usually.
Arjun for composite material or Indian engine, LCA or Landing gear or EW suits, (partial delays due to 98s economic sanctions), Nirbhay has just been getting MANIK in place of NPO Saturn and newly developed seekers.

UUVs, interceptors, SAMs, LVs & there are hundreds. When Pakistan had seekers and turbofans last time?

You are too young to debate with me. You started to Google things, news and joined Pakistani troll gang on local forum. Not much above the standard of a YouTube keyboard warrior.
You have way hell too much trolled me since start with this kiddish boasting & comments.

Again, the 13 years old nationalist. What their keenness to invest in renewable energy has to do with India (Nevertheless India itself is second largest prouducer of renewable energy)?
Isolation is a relative term but again, our debate was regrading technological prowess in missiles.
I can quantify as well as explain my points, you guys just are quoting random links to somehow deem Indian sector to be incompetent against Pakistani R&D (doesn't exist).

Not wanna offend, but here you are acting like you are at war with me on this keyboard.

The quote regarding patent was essentially the response to claim of somehow saying that national or racial incompetency is there in technological development.

As for defence, I won't even waste my time again explaining semiconductors or composites because I've already quoted MTCR for that.
Nor, I'm going to ask about "secret intergalactic techs" you've been hiding from us coz reactions during stand off portrayed capabilities very well.

Specially for missiles, you've to file NOTAMs and NAVAREAs otherwise accident will cause war.

And if you think India's finalized and published defence projects are "secret", you know nothing.

Without wasting time, I know that JF17 has Pakistani mission software. What else was developed from Pakistan (not trivial things like landing gear)?
If you wanna say its secret, don't even quote me. Enough

Declare that and pull outta every trouble.
Territorial changes and relative position in international arena reflects it very well.

Kick out all third parties and make sure its only two.

I'm waiting for any technical response.
As you are too stupid to explain difference between the metallurgical and designing problems and why rooting out hot corrosion and thermal creep is critical,

I'd like to confirm if you can explain what a VCE is or even state the full form of VCE.
Otherwise, I don't think you even need to respond if you can't debate technically.

The only you should be worried about is that Pakistan has lauched an indeginous next generation fighter program due to the experience gained in JF-17 project.
Which third party was able to keep your panties wet for so long?