What does China think about Kashmir. My POV

[FaujHistorian]

Hi. Some of you know my background from the initial introduction I made when I joined these forums. And those who did not read it, pretty much assumed my background from the name I've taken here. Something you may missed all the same, was that my background and the theater I was specifically deployed to was the South Asia Theater, specifically Afghanistan / Pakistan and India.

While I’ve been here, I've been struggling with what areas I go into, discuss openly without compromising privileged conversations and communications. Let's face it, even after retirement I'm obliged to keep silent on the very many interactions I've been honored to have as US State department employee.

There some areas I can speak to in broad strokes and I've been thinking that I should here. Forewarning- the nature of these forthcoming posts you may find very cryptic and opaque.

Having stated that - I would like to start introducing and hope to do this from time to time, posts that speak to this specific region and my experiences when dealing with the various diplomatic corps, think thanks and what I qualify as deeply ingrained and deeply experienced people with knowledge of this region.

Here is my snippet about China's stance on Kashmir. Much of this has been behind closed doors and you won't see it being discussed in the media often.

China is wary of the Kashmir issue and is trying to balance their act of being a good ally with Pakistan- when it comes to stating their support. Very rarely will you see China speak on Kashmir and support Pakistan’s position all out. Rather most for what you will official see is at best a tactic support.

The reason for this and what I've encountered is twofold:
On one end, China does not want to open the Pandora’s Box to then give any sort of legitimacy to groups in Taiwan, HK, Tibet and SCS. Can you imagine a plebiscite call or any U.N negotiations in those regions?

On the other end, they do not want to write off India. For China to be successful as far their global ambitions go, they truly need India to be their Canada, if not a somewhat prickly Mexico.

Feel free to discuss the merit of what I submitted, and I'll try to answer as much as can.

Welcome to the forum

and thanks for touching the raw nerve issue for both Pakistanis and Indians.

it got even more complicated by adding Chinese "spice" in it.



I explain this to my fellow Pakistanis, that we must quit this obsession with ICK (Indian Controlled Kashmir).

Let's focus on PCK and the rest of Pakistan and bring some peace to ourselves.

It is time to write off the losses and move on.

Because if we don't, we will continue losing more and more and more.


But I know there are my fellow countrymen who do not want to reap "peace-with-India-dividend".

This dividend is less of the stuff from India
and a lot more from the rest of the world.


Our fever pitched pitch forks on Kashmir have hurt us a lot more in terms of our international standings than anything else.

It is time to understand that our loss is a loss, and time to move on.

peace at home,
peace abroad

Peace to everyone
and Merry Christmas.

 

[AgentOrange]

Comparing Ukraine to China -Pakistan relations is quite an imaginative stretch. As is the claim of 'China does not interfere in the sovereign issues of any country'. May I remind you that China took a part of the disputed Kashmir region and also Aksai Chin, one being clearly a disputed part of another country, and the other being a sovereign boundary/territory of India.

Speaking of revisionist history - see the highlighted part. Did the Indian government tell you to say that? Add to the mix the fact that you don't seem to understand what a plebiscite is and why there can be no plebiscite in the SCS or why calls for "a referendum in Hong Kong or Tibet as negotiated by the UN" is completely impossible as well as nonsensical really makes you look uninformed. You've no credibility with me (and many other people here, judging from there posts) and if you want to be taken seriously, you're better off not pretending to be an ex US government official with loads of "classified info" that you can't "share with us."

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

.

Speaking of revisionist history - see the highlighted part. Did the Indian government tell you to say that? Add to the mix the fact that you don't seem to understand what a plebiscite is and why there can be no plebiscite in the SCS or why calls for "a referendum in Hong Kong or Tibet as negotiated by the UN" is completely impossible as well as nonsensical really makes you look uninformed. You've no credibility with me (and many other people here, judging from there posts) and if you want to be taken seriously, you're better off not pretending to be an ex US government official with loads of "classified info" that you can't "share with us."

It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak.

 

[AgentOrange]

.


It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak.

Since you can't actually refute any of my points yet continue to insist that anyone who doesn't agree with you is "revisionist", I'm gonna go ahead and put you on ignore.

 

[Providence]

Speaking of revisionist history - see the highlighted part. Did the Indian government tell you to say that? Add to the mix the fact that you don't seem to understand what a plebiscite is and why there can be no plebiscite in the SCS or why calls for "a referendum in Hong Kong or Tibet as negotiated by the UN" is completely impossible as well as nonsensical really makes you look uninformed. You've no credibility with me (and many other people here, judging from there posts) and if you want to be taken seriously, you're better off not pretending to be an ex US government official with loads of "classified info" that you can't "share with us."

What @US_statedept_retired purported is a logical consequence. First think of the fundamental idea with which pakistan is approaching the UN and other countries. They are saying the indigenous populace must be given an option to go independent.

With the same logic, people in HK should also be given the right to self determination. The case is legit for HK since they were not even a part of the China mainland for most part of its independent history.

 

[ashok mourya]

East India Company ?

Have you mixed up your history or was it in jest ?

Does Ferozpore have a dam ?

I think the dam is in rajasthan on river satluj

 

[xuxu1457]

99% Chinese never heard of Kashmir

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

Ignore him. You are not the first one he is asking for web cam chat. Other members have been targeted as well.
He has a fetish for identity proof, he believe every one is as free and useless that proving their identity on internet is the only thing left in this world.

There is an App for that condition, albeit it could be censored in the mainland . Chatroulette

 

[Aepsilons]

Hi. Some of you know my background from the initial introduction I made when I joined these forums. And those who did not read it, pretty much assumed my background from the name I've taken here. Something you may missed all the same, was that my background and the theater I was specifically deployed to was the South Asia Theater, specifically Afghanistan / Pakistan and India.

While I’ve been here, I've been struggling with what areas I go into, discuss openly without compromising privileged conversations and communications. Let's face it, even after retirement I'm obliged to keep silent on the very many interactions I've been honored to have as US State department employee.

There some areas I can speak to in broad strokes and I've been thinking that I should here. Forewarning- the nature of these forthcoming posts you may find very cryptic and opaque.

Having stated that - I would like to start introducing and hope to do this from time to time, posts that speak to this specific region and my experiences when dealing with the various diplomatic corps, think thanks and what I qualify as deeply ingrained and deeply experienced people with knowledge of this region.

Here is my snippet about China's stance on Kashmir. Much of this has been behind closed doors and you won't see it being discussed in the media often.

China is wary of the Kashmir issue and is trying to balance their act of being a good ally with Pakistan- when it comes to stating their support. Very rarely will you see China speak on Kashmir and support Pakistan’s position all out. Rather most for what you will official see is at best a tactic support.

The reason for this and what I've encountered is twofold:
On one end, China does not want to open the Pandora’s Box to then give any sort of legitimacy to groups in Taiwan, HK, Tibet and SCS. Can you imagine a plebiscite call or any U.N negotiations in those regions?

On the other end, they do not want to write off India. For China to be successful as far their global ambitions go, they truly need India to be their Canada, if not a somewhat prickly Mexico.

Feel free to discuss the merit of what I submitted, and I'll try to answer as much as can.

A very interesting analysis @US_statedept_retired .

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

What @US_statedept_retired purported is a logical consequence. First think of the fundamental idea with which pakistan is approaching the UN and other countries. They are saying the indigenous populace must be given an option to go independent.

With the same logic, people in HK should also be given the right to self determination. The case is legit for HK since they were not even a part of the China mainland for most part of its independent history.

Is that a joke?

Firstly, every country in the world recognizes my city (Hong Kong) as a part of China. No one in the entire world disputes that.

Secondly, check the results of the last HK elections. The vast majority of Hong Kongers (including myself) voted for the pro-Beijing camp.

It's not comparable to Kashmir at all, which is recognized by the UN as a disputed territory. And not one single country on Earth supports India's position that "all of Kashmir" belongs to them. Not one single country.

 

[ravi kiran]

For China to be successful as far their global ambitions go, they truly need India to be their Canada

no way we will be china's canada
we are happy as enemy and rival of china. because of 1962 we will be always hostile towards china that is the reason US wants closer ties with us to counter china.

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

What @US_statedept_retired purported is a logical consequence. First think of the fundamental idea with which pakistan is approaching the UN and other countries. They are saying the indigenous populace must be given an option to go independent.

With the same logic, people in HK should also be given the right to self determination. The case is legit for HK since they were not even a part of the China mainland for most part of its independent history.

Here is what I have figured out in my short while here. We have several ultra nationalistic chinese that have a great grasp of the English language, but are yet to have a grasp of the nuances within.

They find it very difficult understanding that when you have a brand, in this case brand China, that perceptions matter over hard realities i.e. That it does not matter if one has the veto powers, or the world recognizes HK as a part of the mainland. Actual perceptions do.

This why the indigenous people of HK origin despise the chinese mainlanders.

Hong Kong independence movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[MastanKhan]

There is not going to be war unless we see another 26/11. Which if it were to happen, would mean Pakistan would be heavily sanctioned and isolated. Even then, it will be a limited engagement ( mini war), and there is no chance of Pakistan using any nuclear weapons because of the limited nature of the engagement.

There is only one way for both countries and most importantly for Pakistan to get back to being economy focused and successful. That is accepting current boundaries.

I've had this discussion a hundred times with different people in different governments. Sixty plus years = statute of limitations has expired.

This thing has run its course.

Sir,

You are incorrect on this part---about the usage of nuc---. Let me go back---when the Japanese reactor melted down in the tsunami---the businesses on the west coast almost came to a dead stop for 5-7 days---. People were extremely concerned---there was a feeling of doom in the air---ie the bay area---san Francisco.

If it came to nuc---the west wont have anytime for sanctions----it won't even have time to do anything about the crashing stock markets---it will be a world wide panic---.

9/11 ---- 11/26 or 12/16----if the nations are stupid enough to start wars on the actions of some of the terrorists---they all will pay heavily as they already have---and all these nations should keep in mind the examples of the British and the IRA---even thought he IRA was launching mortar attacks on the 10 Downing street---the british did not stop talking with their adversaries---.

So---the problem that I see here is the U S state department itself----I believe that the state department maybe the instigator in this case---due to its flawed analysis---it maybe giving a go ahead nod to india.

There is no such thing as a limited engagement---there is a u s military saying---- " the enemy gets to vote as well "---so regardless what the plans are of the indian armed forces---the pak military gets to VOTE as well---and it is not going to wait if it sees things going out of control---and supposedly---if the things start getting out of control---then what is stopping india from not continuing with the offensive---.

 

[Providence]

Is that a joke?

Firstly, every country in the world recognizes my city (Hong Kong) as a part of China. No one in the entire world disputes that.

Secondly, check the results of the last HK elections. The vast majority of Hong Kongers (including myself) voted for the pro-Beijing camp.

It's not comparable to Kashmir at all, which is recognized by the UN as a disputed territory. And not one single country on Earth supports India's position that "all of Kashmir" belongs to them. Not one single country.

Why don't you ask your chinese govt to come clean on this issue. As much of a risk averse policy framework CPC have, I don't think that is gonna happen ergo vindicating my point.

 

[Nilesh Singh]

Should I remind you how you treat Muslims Kashmiri women or what?


fundamental rights? Would you arrange a simple referendum in Kashmir? What is the meaning of fundamental rights in your book? I guess don't allow Kashmiris to vote

Brother do you live in cave or what. Have you not seen the Assembly voting percentage in J&K for 2014 its between 65 to 75% for the whole of state.. Now you will say it was bogus voting but other than your country no one in whole world will believe you. Can you not see what Pakistan intellect like Nizam Sethi, parveez hoodboy,etc have said about this year election in J&K. It seems you want to countering every body view point on J&K just for the sake of it. Chill!!! Face the fact J&K will never be part of Pakistan and neither will be a independent country. Already due to Pakistan intuition for J&K, it has lost half of its country in 1971,due you want Pakistan Tribal areas and Baluchistan go the same way.