What does being a liberal mean?

[Hell hound]

I've tried reasoning with many Molvi hazraat including some of my relatives. They always gets angry & ends the talk with usual "Allah aapko hidayat de".

Same here haha they always says that in the end but in my heart i always say that to them because actually only Allah can help them.

thats the point where every thing they have been taught ends and have nothing more to counter your argument.
just keep trying in the hope that one day they might start doing their own research because of you.

 

[Respect4Respect01]

There is difference between liberals and desi liberals. I consider myself liberal but when i look at desi pseudo liberals i change my mind again.

 

[Flash_Ninja]

Society should be based on merit not, race, culture, religion, or gender.

Of course Islam is the focal point for our country and it should remain so, but not to the point where peoples personal liberties are restricted, or proper justice does not get dealt out.

My opinion is that the entire legal system should be reversed back to the pre-Zia era(although the old British laws should definitely not come back); before Zia religion was kept important in the state structure, but not to the point that it ended up being overbearing for the rest of those in society.

not sure where that would put me on the political scale, perhaps a reactionary?

 

[Hell hound]

There is difference between liberals and desi liberals. I consider myself liberal but when i look at desi pseudo liberals i change my mind again.

thats what i am trying to differentiate through this post.

 

[Respect4Respect01]

thats what i am trying to differentiate through this post.

According to most of our pseudo liberals, you can only be considered liberal if you disrespect Islam and try to impose your views on others by hiding behind the "Freedom Of Speech" law, these people also believe that Freedom of Speech is only for them and the other person does not have any right to express him/herself.

 

[Hell hound]

not sure where that would put me on the political scale, perhaps a reactionary?

job of a fire fighter is reactionary one doesn't mean its a useless job.

My opinion is that the entire legal system should be reversed back to the pre-Zia era(although the old British laws should definitely not come back); before Zia religion was kept important in the state structure, but not to the point that it ended up being overbearing for the rest of those in society.

well we are so deep in this mess we can't just clean it in one sweep.i am afraid we need to do far more than just reverting legal system back to ayub's era we need to go on a deeper level and change our general public's thought process for any reform/step to be effective.

@Kaptaan could use your analysis here bro.

 

[Jugger]

This is a very nice thread, I want to say that liberalism, equality between all people, secularism are all western concepts they have come from the Greeks, French revolution, American revolution, magna Carta etc. The molvis will always reject these notion solely because it's western and hence haram, they will never think about it for it's merits.
Only an educated individual has the vision to gauge and understand the proposition then take decision.

 

[RISING SUN]

There is difference between liberals and desi liberals. I consider myself liberal but when i look at desi pseudo liberals i change my mind again.

Same here mate. I find mainstream liberalists far removed from actual liberalism and supporting anything which is able to attract eyeballs. I far one prefer middle path, though more difficult to follow as both extreme ends come after you in open.

 

[Hollow Field]

Islam teaches us that the middle path is the best path. Being on extreme of either side is bad. Liberals are just too extreme, but in the opposite direction of terrorists.

But most people, like you or me, who are the silent majority, do not have extreme views. We get on with our lives as per normal

 

[RISING SUN]

According to most of our pseudo liberals, you can only be considered liberal if you disrespect Islam and try to impose your views on others by hiding behind the "Freedom Of Speech" law, these people also believe that Freedom of Speech is only for them and the other person does not have any right to express him/herself.

In India that's if you disrespect Hinduism and still claim to follow liberal policy and rights of freedom to speeches without caring for society balancing and upliftment

 

[Indus Pakistan]

could use your analysis here bro.

To begin with we must accept that the safest, securest and appropriate place for religion is in the hearts of people.

Pakistan has been around for less than 70 years. Before that the British ruled us for 100 years. Before that the Sikhs ruled us for 100 years. We have been Muslim for over 1,000 years. Yet all that did not weaken Islam or displace it from our hearts. Yet now that we are 97% Muslim majority everyday we hear some mullah or some idiot claming Islam is under threat? Did we make Pakistan to worry about Islam? Islam survived for centuries without Pakistan and it will continue to survive without Pakistan. It is gross insult of great religion to place at at the level of a clap trap, corrupt and incompetent state.

The biggest thing we need to clear is this little hoax. Pakistani constitution should not not state that sovereignty lies with Allah. It should lie with the people. The reason is very simple. Those who say sovereignty lies with Allah are cheats. This is because we do not have access or a phone line to Allah to exercise that sovereignty. The real question is who is going to be medium for that sovereignty on earth? We know who steps forward. The mullahs because they claim to exercise that sovereignty. Thus in effect it is a cheat when you say "sovereignty lies with Allah. In fact the "sovereignty lies with Allah is a hoax for the mullahs to grab the steering wheel". Allahs name us used by mullahs to provide cover to their lust for power. Mullahs are using Allah to peddle their politics. This is hideous and dangerous.

Therefore to prevent anybody using Allah to advance their political goal the law should state that the ultimate sovereign on earth is the people in the form of our elected assembly. This removes individuals claming they have sole contract from Allah. Yes, indeed you could say that the elected assembly is also claming "contract from Allah" but at least that is a collective entity of a nation and not some private retard claiming he knows best or that he has sole contract rights from Allah.

Once this basic fundamental issue can be settled then everything else will begin to shape up.

*In summary the will of Allah is always going to be expressed by humans. Sovereignty is word. He who exercises it is the one who steers the wheel. So the only real dispute is always who is going to do that. A mullah, which mullah, a group of mullahs, a elected assembly, me, you. Who?

That is the real question.

 

[RangeMaster]

And just curious what does being a molvi means and why people are against them.Why a molvi is called molvi and why a liberal is not called liberal.

 

[Hell hound]

The biggest thing we need to clear is this little hoax. Pakistani constitution should not not state that sovereignty lies with Allah. It should lie with the people. The reason is very simple. Those who say sovereignty lies with Allah are cheats. This is because we do not have access or a phone line to Allah to exercise that sovereignty. The real question is who is going to be medium for that sovereignty on earth? We know who steps forward. The mullahs because they claim to exercise that sovereignty. Thus in effect it is a cheat when you say "sovereignty lies with Allah. What in fact happens is Allahs name us used by mullahs to provide cover to their lust for power. The fraud is the mullahs are using Allah to peddle their politics. This is hideous and dangerous.

Therefore to prevent anybody using Allah to advance their political goal the law should state that the ultimate sovereign on earth is the people in the form of our elected assembly. This removes individuals claming they have sole contract from Allah. Yes, indeed you could say that the elected assembly is also claming "contract from Allah" but at least that is a collective entity of a nation and not some private retard claiming he knows best or that he has sole contract rights from Allah.

thats the problem bro the moment you touch this part of constitution every mullah with all the people under their spell will rise up against the government and will term this attack on their power source an attack on Islam and whatnot.

 

[Musafir117]

Back home Burger society present worst image of liberals! Alcohol Partying gals in jean skirts the and mulla tolla labeled all who are not even belong to above group Liberals. There is big difference between Roshan Khayli or moderate thinking.
Balance in all thoughts is necessary.

 

[Respect4Respect01]

And just curious what does being a molvi means and why people are against them.Why a molvi is called molvi and why a liberal is not called liberal.

Because people don't know what a Molvi is, the title of Maulana, Molvi, Sheikh etc... is given to a person who has studied Islam and has great knowledge of Islam...but these days our desi liberals use these terms in a derogatory way.
Our Hindu and Christian friends never abuse their Pundits and Pastors to be called Liberals.