What do Indians celebrate on 15th August?

[Umair Nawaz]

Well in their country those who rape n kill 8 years old girls in a temple are roaming free, in their country a politician invests in election campaign some 20 crore and while in office makes a profit of atleast 60 crore in corruption, its a country where the people whose names had came on panama papers r roaming scot free with all their money safe in off shore accounts free of indian tax laws. They have only two political parties in their political system who have a monopoly of ruling their country after taking turns right after 8 years in power. There is no third option for any new and young political force in their country. Who will bring new set of ideas and innovative out of box solutions to their country and for the betterment of its future.

What is there to celebrate for indians on 15th august?? i mean im being real here.

 

[Peshwa]

Fantastic summation of the events. Jinnah did not want Pakistan. He wanted a constitutional architecture that would protect minority Muslims areas by leveraging the majority Muslim areas. Instead Nehru blew it. And Jinnah died a broken man. Non of this is of much import beyond the way Pakistan and India were made. British India itself was made by a English trading company - EIC. Greed and profit made British India. Which itself was broken by the zest of minority Muslims to create equilibrium. They failed. Most are still sat in India today being lynched. And few ran away to Karachi where they still feel a minority in a Muslim majority.

Sometimes I wonder if the lack of an existential crisis is why Pakistan has no succeeded to its potential.
Partition was political, not an issue of survival but more a power struggle.

I look at the example of Israel as a similar theorcratic state born out of similar difficulties but has thrived ideologically and grown politically.
Of course the US blessings helped Israel, but Pakistan had the same chance to be the “Muslim Israel” for the US. Somehow Pakistan wasn’t able to take advantage.

 

[GHALIB]

we are thankful to qaid e azam jinnah he created pakistan .

Well in their country those who rape n kill 8 years old girls in a temple are roaming free, in their country a politician invests in election campaign some 20 crore and while in office makes a profit of atleast 60 crore in corruption, its a country where the people whose names had came on panama papers r roaming scot free with all their money safe in off shore accounts free of indian tax laws. They have onl two political parties in their political system who have a monopoly of ruling their country after taking turns right after 8 years in power. There is no third option for any new and young political force in their country.

What is there to celebrate for indians on 15th august?? i mean im being real here.

you are genuinely concerned for india , thank you .

 

[SorryNotSorry]

What a dumb thread.
Not everything is about you and your quest to find some identity.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Sometimes I wonder if the lack of an existential crisis is why Pakistan has no succeeded to its potential.

The reasons are complex but not quite what you say. No newspaper or writer will give the real reasons as the subject is 'verboten'. But I will give a quick summary. The reason the country has failed to reach it's potential [it has enormous potential] are to do with the way it was incubated. While India might have come about as result of EIC shenanigans but by 1947 that was distant memory.

Pakistan came about as a accident as much as India. The Muslim majority areas on the Indus and that is what Pakistan is were not bothered about Hindu threat. Simply because they were vastly in majority. It was the Hindus who were under threat. So as result there was non of that drive for Pakistan as existed in United Provinces etc or other areas of India where the Muslims although in large numbers were drowned in ocean of Hindus. It was they who drove the Muslim League politics.

It was they who used Islam to fire up the Muslim majority areas by playing on the infantile two nation theory that would not stand up to kindergarten level scrutiny. If Muslims were a darned nation then there would have been no border from Spain in Europe to Indonesia in Asia. If Hindu were one nation Nepal, parts of Sri Lanka and Bali would be part of India.

But that is not the point. The 2NT was used as gun to try and leverage a constitutional architecture that would secure the minority Muslim areas by using the majority Muslim areas. But as we touched on it earlier that went badly wrong. The population movement we saw in 1947 was never planned. It happened as a accident or incidental to the violence. If the Sindhi's had been told "vote for Pakistan but accept every Indian Muslim as migrant" they would have said "fcuk off".

Be as it may Pakistan came about accident as much as the region coterminous to it had become part of British India by accident some 98 years before 1947. With Pakistan now in existence the ML ruling the new country was mostly led by Muslim migrants from India. It was they who injected the DNA print into the country at the outset. And including the notion of "Muslim" was a must. After all sans "Muslim" they were just Indians from UP, Mumbai or Deccan. Without that notion there was no reason to migrate to a strange land. The problem you see in Pakistan for nearly 7 decades is that this template has been forced on the 95% of the indigenous population causing major issues and a identity crisis that still afflicts us. The insecurity of 5% has infected the host 95% who now have a form of vicarious schizophrenia on behalf of that 5% minority migrants from India. The entire country has been defined through their experiance.

I will finish off the conclusion to this when I get more time.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

Well in their country those who rape n kill 8 years old girls in a temple are roaming free, in their country a politician invests in election campaign some 20 crore and while in office makes a profit of atleast 60 crore in corruption, its a country where the people whose names had came on panama papers r roaming scot free with all their money safe in off shore accounts free of indian tax laws. They have only two political parties in their political system who have a monopoly of ruling their country after taking turns right after 8 years in power. There is no third option for any new and young political force in their country. Who will bring new set of ideas and innovative out of box solutions to their country and for the betterment of its future.

What is there to celebrate for indians on 15th august?? i mean im being real here.

And is your country perfect? We have elected a person who cares about his constituents and has improved the lives of millions. For some reason, you call him a terrorist.

 

[Peshwa]

The reasons are complex but not quite what you say. No newspaper or writer will give the real reasons as the subject is 'verboten'. But I will give a quick summary. The reason the country has failed to reach it's potential [it has enormous potential] are to do with the way it was incubated. While India might have come about as result of EIC shenanigans but by 1947 that was distant memory.

Pakistan came about as a accident. The Muslim majority areas on the Indus and that is what Pakistan is were not botherd about Hindu threat. simply because they werevastly in majority. It was the Hindus who were under threat. So as result there was non of that drive for Pakistan as existed in United Provinces etc or other areas of India where the Muslims although in large numbers were drowned in ocean of Hindus. It was they who drove the Muslim League politics.

It was they who used Islam to fire up the Muslim majority areas by playing on the infantile two nation theory that would not stand up to kindergarten level scrutiny. If Muslims were a darned nation then there would have been no border from Spain in Europe to Indonesia in Asia. If Hindu were one nation Nepal, parts of Sri Lanka and Bali would be part of India.

But that is not the point. The 2NT was used as gun to try and leverage a constitutional architecture that would secure the minority Muslim areas by using the majority muslim areas. But as we touched on it that went badly wrong. The population movement we saw in 1947 was never planned. It happened as a accident or incidental to the violence. If the Sindhi's had been told "vote for Pakistan but accept every Indian Muslim as migrant" they would have said "fcuk off".

Be as it may Pakistan came about accident as much as the region coterminous to it had become part of British India by accident some 98 years before 1947. With Pakistan now in existence the ML ruling the new country was mostly led by Muslim migrants from India. It was they who injected the DNA into the country at the outset. And including the notion of "Muslim" was must. After all sans "Muslim" they were just Indians from UP, Mumbai or Deccan. Without that notion there was no reason to migrate to a strange land. The problem you see in Pakistan for nearly 7 decades is that this template has been forced on the 95% of the indigenous population causing major issues and a identity crisis that still afflicts us. The insecurity of 5% has infcted the host 95% who know have a form of vicarious schizophrenia on behalf of that 5% minority migrants from India. The entire country has been defined through their experiance.

I will finish off the conclusion to this when I get more time.

I have one comment before you finish your thought that I look forward to reading.
Hindu Muslim politics/divide as we see it today (on a civilian level and even political level) was non existent until the British arrived.
Even under the Muslim rulers of the indian subcontinent, there was harmony between the Hindu and Muslim subjects.
Injection of religious politics was a British creation.
Hence why I feel the TNT based on religious geography was not practical or even real.

I’ll let you finish before I comment further.

 

[ziaulislam]

New British governor general i believe

 

[Cobra Arbok]

The reasons are complex but not quite what you say. No newspaper or writer will give the real reasons as the subject is 'verboten'. But I will give a quick summary. The reason the country has failed to reach it's potential [it has enormous potential] are to do with the way it was incubated. While India might have come about as result of EIC shenanigans but by 1947 that was distant memory.

Pakistan came about as a accident as much as India. The Muslim majority areas on the Indus and that is what Pakistan is were not bothered about Hindu threat. Simply because they were vastly in majority. It was the Hindus who were under threat. So as result there was non of that drive for Pakistan as existed in United Provinces etc or other areas of India where the Muslims although in large numbers were drowned in ocean of Hindus. It was they who drove the Muslim League politics.

It was they who used Islam to fire up the Muslim majority areas by playing on the infantile two nation theory that would not stand up to kindergarten level scrutiny. If Muslims were a darned nation then there would have been no border from Spain in Europe to Indonesia in Asia. If Hindu were one nation Nepal, parts of Sri Lanka and Bali would be part of India.

But that is not the point. The 2NT was used as gun to try and leverage a constitutional architecture that would secure the minority Muslim areas by using the majority Muslim areas. But as we touched on it earlier that went badly wrong. The population movement we saw in 1947 was never planned. It happened as a accident or incidental to the violence. If the Sindhi's had been told "vote for Pakistan but accept every Indian Muslim as migrant" they would have said "fcuk off".

Be as it may Pakistan came about accident as much as the region coterminous to it had become part of British India by accident some 98 years before 1947. With Pakistan now in existence the ML ruling the new country was mostly led by Muslim migrants from India. It was they who injected the DNA print into the country at the outset. And including the notion of "Muslim" was a must. After all sans "Muslim" they were just Indians from UP, Mumbai or Deccan. Without that notion there was no reason to migrate to a strange land. The problem you see in Pakistan for nearly 7 decades is that this template has been forced on the 95% of the indigenous population causing major issues and a identity crisis that still afflicts us. The insecurity of 5% has infected the host 95% who now have a form of vicarious schizophrenia on behalf of that 5% minority migrants from India. The entire country has been defined through their experiance.



I will finish off the conclusion to this when I get more time.

Its important to remember that Jinnah would have been content with a united country that provided some autonomy to Pakistan. Kind of similar to how in the US state governments have some degree of autonomy. However, Nehru was a hardcore socialist who wanted a centralized system of power. more similar to that of the UK. So in a way, it was Nehru's arrogance that led to partition.

With that being said, partition simply sped up the inevitable. The only countries as big as an undivided Indian subcontinent are the US, Canada, Russia, and China. All of them were the result of one group of people killing of other groups of people native to the different regions that now encompass those countries. China even went through the most brutal war in human history and one of the world's most brutal regimes to get where it is. Maybe is SA had gone through something like that , its history would be different. Anyway, Pakistan and India are two separate nations. That does not mean there are not similarities. I would say there are more similarities between India and Pakistan than some Pakistanis want to admit. But than again, what is the difference between Canada and the US(other than those weird people who insist on speaking French)? But call a proud Canadian an American and see what happens. That is how I see Indians and Pakistanis, other than the fact there is NO animosity between Americans and Canadians. Cant say the same for our nations.
I'm pretty sure the Indian Government would want to deal with a bunch of illiterate, militaristic Pashto tribes about as much as you want to deal with forest tribes of Chhattisgarh.​

 

[Umair Nawaz]

And is your country perfect? We have elected a person who cares about his constituents and has improved the lives of millions. For some reason, you call him a terrorist.

our country is now way way better then yrs....We have thankfully jailed those who did corruption in our country, those leeches who were sucking resources and wealth out of our country. Even if they were our PMs while in yr country even Supreme court was hearing cases of meager value like ''should electric cars be allowed to run in yr roads or not'' while our SC was jailing our corrupt leaders. Even those people like i said before the rapists n murders of that 8 years old girl r roaming scot free infact released by yr SC, even those whose names came in panama papers like our jailed Nawaz Sharif on same offence are roaming free with all their wealth safe in offshore accounts n investments where indian tax laws dont apply to them. People r dying from lynching and petty mob justice is being spread all across yr country!

I remember Churchill saying while his country was being bombarded day n night by Germans that if our courts r still functioning and justice is being delivered then im confident that nothing is going to happen to my country, and we will never fall. And all saw in history what happened next. We are also doing same and u can see us being on right track to achieve our long due economic prosperity n social stability. But in what track is yr country going into? While we broke our 2 party system and brought educated people who had no previous political background from our middle class who care for people n want justice and insaniyat, and equal opportunities for all be it rich or poor where are u guys in comparison today?

Mister solution to yr problems dont lie in Pakistan or blaming ISI. The educated people like yrself need to do diagnosis of yr problems justly without the influences of emotions or biases. Only that way u can make yr country a better place to live and grow.

It is guys like u mister Cobra who r young educated, civilized and are aware of how things work. it is guys like u who should break these barriers and rescue yr own land, the land of yr ancestors where u belong to.

I sincerely want guys like u to break this 2 party system in yr country as well and bring in new ideas, with innovative out of box solution for the betterment of yr country. Corruption is a leech sucking the money and wealth as well as prosperity out of yr country as well.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

our country is now way way better then yrs....We have thankfully jailed those who did corruption in our country, those leeches who were sucking resources and wealth out of our country. Even if they were our PMs while in yr country even Supreme court was hearing cases of meager value like ''should electric cars be allowed to run in yr roads or not'' while our SC was jailing our corrupt leaders. Even those people like i said before the rapists n murders of that 8 years old girl r roaming scot free infact released by yr SC, even those whose names came in panama papers like our jailed Nawaz Sharif on same offence are roaming free with all their wealth safe in offshore accounts n investments where indian tax laws dont apply to them. People r dying from lynching and petty mob justice is being spread all across yr country!

I remember Churchill saying while his country was being bombarded day n night by Germans that if our courts r still functioning and justice is being delivered then im confident that nothing is going to happen to my country, and we will never fall. And all saw in history what happened next. We are also doing same and u can see us being on right track to achieve our long due economic prosperity n social stability. But in what track is yr country going into? While we broke our 2 party system and brought educated people who had no previous political background from our middle class who care for people n want justice and insaniyat, and equal opportunities for all be it rich or poor where are u guys in comparison today?

Mister solution to yr problems dont lie in Pakistan or blaming ISI. The educated people like yrself need to do diagnosis of yr problems justly without the influences of emotions or biases. Only that way u can make yr country a better place to live and grow.

It is guys like u mister Cobra who r young educated, civilized and are aware of how things work. it is guys like u who should break these barriers and rescue yr own land, the land of yr ancestors where u belong to.

I sincerely want guys like u to break this 2 party system in yr country as well and bring in we ideas, with innovative out of box solution for the betterment of yr country. Corruption is a leach sucking the money and wealth as well as prosperity out of yr country as well.

I am afraid the UN disagrees with you. We are ahead of you on HDI, which means we are far more developed than you. and what does ISI have to do with any of this? I also seem to recall you guys blaming RAW for all the terror attacks in Balochistan. The fact is, both our countries are far from perfect, and overall, ours is far better than yours.
BTW, I WANT Pakistan to develop, and I think Imran Khan is a good start. He is a lot more like Modi than you want to admit, which is a good thing. Both Modi and IK challenged the establishment in order to improve things for the common man

 

[Umair Nawaz]

I am afraid the UN disagrees with you. We are ahead of you on HDI, which means we are far more developed than you. and what does ISI have to do with any of this? I also seem to recall you guys blaming RAW for all the terror attacks in Balochistan. The fact is, both our countries are far from perfect, and overall, ours is far better than yours.
BTW, I WANT Pakistan to develop, and I think Imran Khan is a good start. He is a lot more like Modi than you want to admit, which is a good thing. Both Modi and IK challenged the establishment in order to improve things for the common man

hahaha yr wrong buddy nor did u got my point....This government of yrs isnt doing economically either...And abt UN haha buddy according to UN mere 6.1% of pakistanis live in wages of 1.9 dollar a day while from yr country those figures r abt 21%...While government of pakistan recognizes doesnt recognizes those figures and says abt 50% of people in our country r poor because in Pakistan instead of the usual 1.9 dollar per day our figures put them in a much higher rate then those mere 1.9 dollars a day...It is abt how much u make per month, on those basis the figures r based upon in here.

Look that is simply because we r not a country of 1.3 billion people we r a country of mere 220 million. Even less for us can be good concerning our needs r not that big in magnitude as compared to India who has a 1.3 billion population, meaning more needs to feed more hungry mouths. Ab samjhe mere pyary bhai?

This government of yrs is fudging figures and r presenting people a bubble economy, even have u heard that abt a billion has been vanished from yr reserves in a week, and latest is that even more money has been vanished from there in the later weeks from july 22.

This is not a good sign buddy!!!! That means yr also facing same problems Pakistani economy is facing right now.

Modi might have come from a lower background, but he hasnt been able to ensure justice in yr country, examples r already been given, even about panama papers and abt corruption too. So how would u ensure yr prosperity and economic development in the times to come if this is the path u kept on following ??

This is the point, that is why i want people like u who r educated, civilized and r aware of things and have so much time to invest like u do in this forum.......Dont u think i see yr posts pages r pages yr always in a fight with another member every other day, with so much energy that u have and all that trouble u take to dig out all those sources and diagrams that u keep on sharing to justify yr point?

The solutions to yr problems where a politician invests abt 20 crore in the election campaign and makes a profit of abt 60 billion in corruption while in office, and while those people who r corrupt and whose names had came in panama papers nor those who rape n kill 8 years old girls in holly places temples, and all of them are roaming scot free with some of them released by yr Supreme Courts........the solution to all these problems isnt in defence.pk.

Its a website whose doesnt even represents yr country to begin with where the members who r from yr country here r at best some guest members certainly not even host members from the country it represents like me.

So mere pyary bhai, i want u to go do something abt yr country in a more practical way, rather then wasting yr time, energy and stamina on mere internet. Go there, yr country needs educated, civilized and sophisticated people like u who r young and can bring in new set of ideas and innovative out of the box solutions rather then trusting these same political parties again n again, after every 8 years. Go build a third political force of young educated and like minded people like yrself who want to do good for their country and care for insaniyat and come to power in yr country just like we did in ours by breaking the monopoly of 2 parties in our country. In yr country there is a realization of the dangers the corruption holds to yr country among educated youth, thats why in cities like Dehli who have a higher literacy rate among contemporary indian cities elect people like Arun Kejriwal and his Aam Admi Party who end up winning 67 out of 70 seats in city against the old hags and already tried n tested parties like Congress and Modi's BJP.

I want u guys to do the same n bring in a third political force into yr center.

 

[Crystal-Clear]

Division of british india ........

 

[dawn_news]

So we got the better deal. whereas what Hindu majority land did Pakistan get?

Tharparkar.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

hahaha yr wrong buddy nor did u got my point....This government of yrs isnt doing economically either...And abt UN haha buddy according to UN mere 6.1% of pakistanis live in wages of 1.9 dollar a day while from yr country those figures r abt 21%...While government of pakistan recognizes doesnt recognizes those figures and says abt 50% of people in our country r poor because in Pakistan instead of the usual 1.9 dollar per day our figures put them in a much higher rate then those mere 1.9 dollars a day...It is abt how much u make per month, on those basis the figures r based upon in here.

Look that is simply because we r not a country of 1.3 billion people we r a country of mere 220 million. Even less for us can be good concerning our needs r not that big in magnitude as compared to India who has a 1.3 billion population, meaning more needs to feed more hungry mouths. Ab samjhe mere pyary bhai?

This government of yrs is fudging figures and r presenting people a bubble economy, even have u heard that abt a billion has been vanished from yr reserves in a week, and latest is that even more money has been vanished from there in the later weeks from july 22.

This is not a good sign buddy!!!! That means yr also facing same problems Pakistani economy is facing right now.

Modi might have come from a lower background, but he hasnt been able to ensure justice in yr country, examples r already been given, even about panama papers and abt corruption too. So how would u ensure yr prosperity and economic development in the times to come if this is the path u kept on following ??

This is the point, that is why i want people like u who r educated, civilized and r aware of things and have so much time to invest like u do in this forum.......Dont u think i see yr posts pages r pages yr always in a fight with another member every other day, with so much energy that u have and all that trouble u take to dig out all those sources and diagrams that u keep on sharing to justify yr point?

The solutions to yr problems where a politician invests abt 20 crore in the election campaign and makes a profit of abt 60 billion in corruption while in office, and while those people who r corrupt and whose names had came in panama papers nor those who rape n kill 8 years old girls in holly places temples, and all of them are roaming scot free with some of them released by yr Supreme Courts........the solution to all these problems isnt in defence.pk.
Except Modi has no control over how UN lists are calculated. The UN has been using the same method to create the HDI lists for decades, and they are the accepted standards of developmental economics. and there are many categories in which you rank lower than us, such as infant and maternal mortality and expected schooling. But that is besides the point. Under Modi, thousands of villages now have access to toilets and almost every single village is electrified. Our GDP per capita is now crossing 2000. I understand what you are saying, but don't you think you should look in a mirror first before you criticize others? Almost every single developmental organization ranks India ahead of Pakistan, including the UN, World Bank, and IMF.
BTW, I do not hate Pakistan. In fact I have had great conversations with Pakistani members. I even said I want Pakistan to develop, and I support IK because he is an outsider who cares about his people like Modi.
https://www.aninews.in/news/nationa...ses-89-under-swachh-bharat201808031610160001/
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...cation-before-target/articleshow/62698530.cms
https://gulfnews.com/news/asia/india/472-villages-freed-from-open-defecation-1.2096428
Look I understand what you are saying and I agree, the system is full of problems. And it is going to take a long time to change it. But Modi is still doing a good job of uplifting people from poverty, which is what he was elected to do. Anyway, I am not an Indian citizen, so I ultimately have no say over what goes on in India.
Its a website whose doesnt even represents yr country to begin with where the members who r from yr country here r at best some guest members certainly not even host members from the country it represents like me.

So mere pyary bhai, i want u to go do something abt yr country in a more practical way, rather then wasting yr time, energy and stamina on mere internet. Go there, yr country needs educated, civilized and sophisticated people like u who r young and can bring in new set of ideas and innovative out of the box solutions rather then trusting these same political parties again n again, after every 8 years. Go build a third political force of young educated and like minded people like yrself who want to do good for their country and care for insaniyat and come to power in yr country just like we did in ours by breaking the monopoly of 2 parties in our country. In yr country there is a realization of the dangers the corruption holds to yr country among educated youth, thats why in cities like Dehli who have a higher literacy rate among contemporary indian cities elect people like Arun Kejriwal and his Aam Admi Party who end up winning 67 out of 70 seats in city against the old hags and already tried n tested parties like Congress and Modi's BJP.

I want u guys to do the same n bring in a third political force into yr center.

Tharparkar.

I looked that up and its a district of Sindh. Are there any more examples of Hindy/Sikh districts going to Pakistan? We got several in Gujarat, Assam, Punjab, and of course JaK. My point was India got a lot less than it should have according to the 2nT, which means India got the better deal as it got a lot of areas with Muslim majorities.