What can bring India and Pakistan closer

[EjazR]

vsdoc and Develepereo , can you guys keep ontopic please. Lets focus on solutions, there are enough thread for bickering and name calling available.

This thread topic is good, so lets not derail it

 

[dabong1]

W
I am all for peaceful relations but Kashmir cannot be the first step on the agenda.
Instead try to make a long term goal for relations which is more realistic.

Thats why we wont have peace.........what if we sent a few thousand freedom fighters into kashmir would you still be willing to put kashmir on the back burner and move ahead with everything else?
You indians said if we cut the flow of fighters "cross border terrorism" then you would sit down and come to a deal ,instead now you want to discuss everything expect kashmir.

The only way forward is to settle kashmir first and then move forward.

 

[EjazR]

Thats why we wont have peace.........what if we sent a few thousand freedom fighters into kashmir would you still be willing to put kashmir on the back burner and move ahead with everything else?
You indians said if we cut the flow of fighters "cross border terrorism" then you would sit down and come to a deal ,instead now you want to discuss everything expect kashmir.

The only way forward is to settle kashmir first and then move forward.

India China have border disputes but there is no violence/cross border terrorism between them.

If India and China can do that why not Pakistan India? Kashmir is an important issue no one is denying that but we can't hold dialogue and peaceful relations hostage to that. And terrorism that has nothing to do with Kashmir should certainly not be held hostage to Kashmir resolution.

Especially since under Shimla accords the most recent agreement signed by ZA Bhutto, Pakistan agreed to maintain the sanctity of the LoC and peaceful resolution of Kashmir. And even the JKLF leaders want peaceful resolution as well.

 

[ahsantyp]

Salam to All Muslim Memebers here, Hello for rest,
This question seems to deficult in todays situation but answer is quite easy & acceptable in lights of history. Pakistan & India can come closer & peaceful only if Indian Zionist Hindus become Pakistani. We have ruled india for a thousand years & these pleaces were sound & peacfull but since last 62 years Hindus have made us fight.

No India & Bangladash Just United States Of Pakistan, Future of south Asia this is proved in our report (Thinker Youths Pakistan).

 

[Al-zakir]

As for BD, I think India should give them a hard kick in the *** and shut them up

Looks like you bharati got death wish. Please do us a favor and bring you coward *** in to our territory of 150 million hard core Muslim. you can not even control baby Kashmir for last 60 years yet dreaming about controlling us by means of force. A two full blown conflict in Kashmir and Bangladesh is perfect storm for Hindustan to dissipate in air dust.

 

[dabong1]

India China have border disputes but there is no violence/cross border terrorism between them.

You had a war with china over the issue and it has heated up again in recent weeks with the indians sending military personell and planes to the region.
The problem is still there and it could spin out of control.

If India and China can do that why not Pakistan India? Kashmir is an important issue no one is denying that but we can't hold dialogue and peaceful relations hostage to that. And terrorism that has nothing to do with Kashmir should certainly not be held hostage to Kashmir resolution.

The comparison is flawed.......what if china had a few million han chinese living in the indian controlled part and the UN had said have elections to see what the people want and india had not budged on the issue there would have been a lot more animosity with china.

Especially since under Shimla accords the most recent agreement signed by ZA Bhutto, Pakistan agreed to maintain the sanctity of the LoC and peaceful resolution of Kashmir. And even the JKLF leaders want peaceful resolution as well.

"peaceful resolution of Kashmir"......So your willing to have UN elections in kashmir then?

 

[Developereo]

terrorism that has nothing to do with Kashmir should certainly not be held hostage to Kashmir resolution.

I believe Kashmir is the root cause of the anti-India terrorism.

Pakistan wants to solve the root cause; India wants to play games attacking the symptoms. India knows perfectly well that, as long as the root cause remains unresolved, the symptoms will keep resurfacing.

 

[gogbot]

Well this was what i was trying to say before in my earlier post but in a more cynical manner.

As long as people put Kashmir before everything else than there wont be any change in the India Pakistan relationship in the foreseeable future.

there is to much resentment on both sides especially the army. Many of whom have fought each other in the past. And still remember the events.

Neither side trusts each other at the moment so there can be no positive relations.
for starters Pakistan can help bring the Mumbai terrorists to justice.
And what do Pak want from India to show its trust ?

We first need to fill the trust void.

Also Please stop treating Indians as if they are all Hindus and also Anti Muslim.
There many in India who believe in our secular vision, and the words of "Jana Gana Mana" and Gandhi's Unfulfilled dream.
By generalizing everyone in India as Anti-Islamic fascists.
you are no better than those that say
every Pakistan is full of terrorists.

I am all for peaceful relations but Kashmir cannot be the first step on the agenda.
Instead try to make a long term goal for relations which is more realistic.

Understand something Kashmir is the root cause of problems we all face today. You cant just forget the root cause and think of moving ahead because logic defies that. The root cause has to be eliminated before any progress can be made in moving ahead for the development and betterment of the whole region.

You are absolutely right.
But understand what i said using this analogy

If Kashmir is the root that needs to be removed then it is one deeply entrenched root.

Both countries are trying to pull the root out with brute force. But it is far too entrenched for it to be done so easily and quickly.

So now they try to to work together by digging the root(making diplomatic bridges) out but are instead trowing each others dirt into their respective digging site.

Instead if both countries can dig together(work together and build trust) then the Kashmir root can be more quickly removed.

If you can understand this , then you will understand that Kahsmir is not a simple decision that will happen overnight. this will require a great deal of trust between both nations before any noticeable progress can be made.

P.S-how do you choose an avatar ?

 

[IceCold]

You are absolutely right.
But understand what i said using this analogy

If Kashmir is the root that needs to be removed then it is one deeply entrenched root.

Both countries are trying to pull the root out with brute force. But it is far too entrenched for it to be done so easily and quickly.

So now they try to to work together by digging the root(making diplomatic bridges) out but are instead trowing each others dirt into their respective digging site.

Instead if both countries can dig together(work together and build trust) then the Kashmir root can be more quickly removed.

If you can understand this , then you will understand that Kahsmir is not a simple decision that will happen overnight. this will require a great deal of trust between both nations before any noticeable progress can be made.

P.S-how do you choose an avatar ?

Go to the usercp and there you will have the option to change your avatar. You can either choose it from the preinstalled ones or perhaps upload one from your pc.

 

[abbasniazi]

In my opinion, follwing things will not only bring india closer to pakistan but both these countries would be best friends;

1) India Gives up Jammu & Kashmir and let the people of J & K decide their fate.

2) India Appologizes to pakistan for all its conspiracies against pakistan since 1947.

3) India promises and keeps her word to protect and provide equal opportunities to all her minorities specially Muslims in all walks of life.

4) India denounces and later on eliminates terrorist organization like RSS etc.

5) India promises not to carry out any conspiracy or agression against any of its neighbours or muslim countries in the world ever.

6) India improves its relations and resolves all border issues with china.

7) India stops building dams on bangladeshi rivers and givesup all plans of occupying bangladeshi territory.

these are a few points, if india does all above then i'll post another list as a second tier to improve relations...

 

[desiman]

In my opinion, follwing things will not only bring india closer to pakistan but both these countries would be best friends;

1) India Gives up Jammu & Kashmir and let the people of J & K decide their fate.
2) India Appologizes to pakistan for all its conspiracies against pakistan since 1947.
3) India promises and keeps her word to protect and provide equal opportunities to all her minorities specially Muslims in all walks of life.

4) India denounces and later on eliminates terrorist organization like RSS etc.

5) India promises not to carry out any conspiracy or agression against any of its neighbours or muslim countries in the world ever.

6) India improves its relations and resolves all border issues with china.

7) India stops building dams on bangladeshi rivers and givesup all plans of occupying bangladeshi territory.

these are a few points, if india does all above then i'll post another list as a second tier to improve relations...

I have read this whole thread and seen this that Indian are always trying to push for peace and forgetting old grievances and all that Pakistani’s do is cry over kashmir and every other small thing. ok ill answer all your wish list one and one -

1) India Gives up Jammu & Kashmir and let the people of J & K decide their fate -Kashmir will always be a part of india whether you like it or not, Things are improving dramatically in the valley where free and fair elections were held with a with for the congress not for the separatist party's because people know that pakistan and these so called "freedom fighters" are just harming the valley and slowing down its growth. So you can forget about kashmir it will always be a part of India period.

2) India Apologizes to pakistan for all its conspiracies against pakistan since 1947 - lol what a joke, man you have no idea what you talking about. lol by that standard pakistan will have to write a book with just sorry in it for kargil, terrorism, innocent killing of indians and kahmiris etc etc, please dont say stupid stuff like this, makes you look like a fool.

3) India promises and keeps her word to protect and provide equal opportunities to all her minorities specially Muslims in all walks of life - OMG you really dont know what your saying buddy, india gives equal opportunity to people no matter what their religion, sex, caste is. We have a Muslim president, a sikh prime minister and a christain leader of the biggest party in india. All the major actors are muslim and if you have heard of Azim Premji then you would know his wealth is more than full military budget of pakistan lol. I can go on and on about what muslims have achieved in india but im sure u will find something to cry about, you tell me one thing, is there any famous hindu or christain or sikh in pakistan ? can a hindu ever dream of becoming the president of pakistan ? lol even you know the answer, let alone hindu's, in pakistan even the shia's and sunny want to kill each other so please buddy think before you speak lol

4) India denounces and later on eliminates terrorist organization like RSS etc - lol ok then pakistan will ban the LET, jasih e mohammed etc etc pakistan has known terror training grounds and is a known base for terrorism. so please again let pakistan eliminated them first then talk about the rss, which the indian government is working against.

5) India promises not to carry out any conspiracy or agression against any of its neighbors or muslim countries in the world ever - lol i have never laughed so hard lol Isnt planning and making conspricaies ISI's main job lol. Please you really look like a ZAID HAMID fan so i wont even talk about this anymore lol im sure you believe in the jews taking over the world and the moon landing hoaxs lol. all i can say GROW UP.

6) India improves its relations and resolves all border issues with china - lol China and India are the next superpowers in the world ( no matter what pakistani's say) and there is bound to be problems between them. But please pakistan does not have to worry about china lol India and China are smart enough to handle all the issues themselves.

7) India stops building dams on bangladeshi rivers and givesup all plans of occupying bangladeshi territory - where did you get that ? let me guess zaid hamid again, please dont post stuff like this, it really reduces the quality of the thread. llol

I dint want to talk like this but when i see post like this spcially when i see other indian members trying to push for peace, i just get irritated. I dont know why we have to start discussing about the same topic again and again, people the world is moving and and its time for everyone to move on. We are the new generation and we should not behave like this. I like in Canada and i have as much as pakistani friends as Indian and let me say that we never have a problem and are the best of friends. So please get over all this what is done is done, CAN YOU EVEN THINK ABOUT HOW INDIA AND PAKISTAN CAN CHANGE THE WORLD IF WE UNITE, THINK ABOUT THAT FIRST.

 

[desiman]

Looks like you bharati got death wish. Please do us a favor and bring you coward *** in to our territory of 150 million hard core Muslim. you can not even control baby Kashmir for last 60 years yet dreaming about controlling us by means of force. A two full blown conflict in Kashmir and Bangladesh is perfect storm for Hindustan to dissipate in air dust.

man arnt you bangledeshi ? lol we got you guys freedom and even then you can talk against india lol man you people forget fast, i think you have also forgotten how you ancestors were massacred by pakistani's before India jumped in to save you, lol and for your kind information the west bengal police force is more than enough to attack and take over Bangladesh. Sounded stupid right so read you post first i was just retaliating. So please think about everything before you post.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Peace?

Then let the Kashmiris decide their fate through a plebiscite - after all Indians claim the Kashmiris would choose India any way.

 

[Hulk]

Peace?

Then let the Kashmiris decide their fate through a plebiscite - after all Indians claim the Kashmiris would choose India any way.

Hey do you know any two countries that solved border disputes peacefully. I just want to know if it is just us or it is worldwide.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Hey do you know any two countries that solved border disputes peacefully. I just want to know if it is just us or it is worldwide.

Pakistanis claim Kashmiris hate India and would choose Pakistan - Indians claim Kashmiris dislike Pakistan and wish to remain with India.

Limit the plebiscite to the Kashmir valley (AK and IAK), leave out jammu, Laddakh and Gilgit-Baltistan to minimize territorial losses for either side, and one would think this was a no-brainer in terms of a solution to the dispute.