What Babur thought about his heritage

[jetti]

I know they are a classic case of Stockholm syndrome.....identifying with the invaders who plundered, raped and converted them. Most of them are converts from Jats and Gujars, castes with low ritual status. But hearing them one would imagine that they are all direct descendants from Timur's family.

no some of them were decendents of timur the lame savage. they are products of rape

 

[Skallagrim]

It seems that Babur wasn't really proud about it who he really was and what his origins were as he wrote a stinging verse in his autobiography about the "Mughals"

"Were the Mughals an angel race, it would be bad,
Even writ in gold, the Mughal name would be bad."

What do you think about it? Were the Mughals just a bunch of self haters? We all know that they adopted the Persian language as the court language of the Mughal empire though the rulers were Turkic. What could be the reasons that Mughals have forgotten their native Turkic tongue?

Babur never thought himself a 'Mughal'. Wherever he mentioned it he refered to the people of his maternal uncle Yunus Khan (one of the rulers of Mughalistan).

 

[Indianpatriot1]

no some of them were decendents of timur the lame savage. they are products of rape

Rather tragic in a way. But this is what happens when you are wrenched from your age old culture. You then need to create stories to fill the gap as the Pakistanis do. The Punjabi Muslims were generally converts from good solid agricultural castes, but they have no achievements whatsoever. So now the need to slyly appropriate the martial history of the people who invaded them and then to take assumed identities. Also, as they are at the bottom in the Islamic pecking order, there is a great yearning to claim some Arabic ancestry.

 

[jetti]

Rather tragic in a way. But this is what happens when you are wrenched from your age old culture. You then need to create stories to fill the gap as the Pakistanis do. The Punjabi Muslims were generally converts from good solid agricultural castes, but they have no achievements whatsoever. So now the need to slyly appropriate the martial history of the people who invaded them and then to take assumed identities. Also, as they are at the bottom in the Islamic pecking order, there is a great yearning to claim some Arabic ancestry.

very true.. that's why you see Punjab of pak is the fountainhead of terror.

 

[Vinod2070]

lol.. aal you guys claim that.. the Mughals were wiped out by the british. Are you Punjabi, if so you are not babars descendent. anyway why would you want to associate yourself with a barbarian.

Absolutely horrible primitive barbarian.

He was a mere bandit in his own lands, his family held hostage, his people raped and killed by other primitive barbarians, his sister raped and forcibly kept by someone who was intent on killing every last Timurid "prince"...

The Mughals met a befitting end, the "princes" shot naked and the "princesses" all ending up in the kothas of Delhi and Lucknow.

 

[Vinod2070]

Rather tragic in a way. But this is what happens when you are wrenched from your age old culture. You then need to create stories to fill the gap as the Pakistanis do. The Punjabi Muslims were generally converts from good solid agricultural castes, but they have no achievements whatsoever. So now the need to slyly appropriate the martial history of the people who invaded them and then to take assumed identities. Also, as they are at the bottom in the Islamic pecking order, there is a great yearning to claim some Arabic ancestry.

Absolutely true.

In fact, if you look at how the local Muslim converts (Ajlafs) were treated by the barbaric invaders who considered themselves superior (Ashrafs), it is easy to understand this need.

The partition melee also gave a sudden rise in the number of "Arabs" in Pakistan. Many had a chance to shed their real identity and suddenly become Ashrafs in Pakistan.

 

[Indianpatriot1]

Absolutely true.

In fact, if you look at how the local Muslim converts (Ajlafs) were treated by the barbaric invaders who considered themselves superior (Ashrafs), it is easy to understand this need.

The partition melee also gave a sudden rise in the number of "Arabs" in Pakistan. Many had a chance to shed their real identity and suddenly become Ashrafs in Pakistan.

I m impressed with your deep knowledge of their fake history.

 

[AUz]

I know they are a classic case of Stockholm syndrome.....identifying with the invaders who plundered, raped and converted them. Most of them are converts from Jats and Gujars, castes with low ritual status. But hearing them one would imagine that they are all direct descendants from Timur's family.

What is low ritual status?

The "lower" class Hindus converted to Islam, as it lifted their social hierarchy/respect, and aligned themselves to the greatest historical force ever unleashed in history...Big deal? A very small minority of people did that btw....Current Muslim population of subcontinent arose later...

Over-whelming majority of Punjabis etc didn't convert at the hands of Arabs but at the hands of Sufi Saints...heck! even Hindus today go to the shrines of these Islamic Sufi masters to pray etc .....that was their spiritual influence on this region...talk about 'rape' and plunder blah blah...

Majority of Pakistanis don't claim to be direct descendents of Mughals..but there are only some groups..and there is alot of truth in it, although alot of mixing has happened.

For example, the "Chugtai" group in Pakistan comes directly from "Chagatai Turks (Mughals)"...You see the similarity in name? But offcourse, sooooooo much mixing has happened that current Chugtais are as Pakistani as I am...

It is only your frustration, sense of civilization defeat, and insecurity that you use words like "rape" , "plundered", and blah blah...Afterall, Islamic Power destroyed your "uncivilized" civilization, caused hundreds of millions of your people to become free from the pathetic cow-p!ss drinking, caste-system believing, monkey worshiping belief system of Hinduism, ruled you for 500 years at minimum!, and eventually divided your land into three parts!!!!

no some of them were decendents of timur the lame savage. they are products of rape

Same Timur who erased Delhi to ground? Literally erased Delhi to ground!

PS, Timur only raped Hindu women...Timurid soldiers recorded it how they raped/plundered "infidel" women and destroyed "infidel" temples, and got booty and "women" from there And these raped women did not convert to Islam because Timur didn't 'rule' India..He invaded, destroyed, and went back. No conversions happened. Absolutely no record of them!!!!

So only one products of rape are you guys...no wonder hindus rape their own daughters, and there is an epidemic of rape in india now a days hahaha...india is rape-istan and a super power when it comes to raping their own girls. 70% of indian women don't have access to toilet..probably thats why they get raped?

West mocks, east cries: Half of Indians have no toilets - News Oneindia



what a hopeless headline by an indian newspaper..shows india's defeatist mentality.

 

[AUz]

Rather tragic in a way. But this is what happens when you are wrenched from your age old culture. You then need to create stories to fill the gap as the Pakistanis do. The Punjabi Muslims were generally converts from good solid agricultural castes, but they have no achievements whatsoever. So now the need to slyly appropriate the martial history of the people who invaded them and then to take assumed identities. Also, as they are at the bottom in the Islamic pecking order, there is a great yearning to claim some Arabic ancestry.

Dude, don't be pathetic. There are many small 'groups' of people in Pakistan which do trace their ancestry outside of subcontinent..and thats not a problem...but majority of Punjabis are punjabis! No one hides it! If you want to check, just open a thread and ask the question "Pakistanis, do you think you are from the land of Punjab/Sindh etc, or from Arabia?" and see the result..

Over-whelming majority of people will not claim "Arabic ancestry" in Pakistan

Just because intelligent Punjabis converted out of hinduism to save themselves from cow-p!ss drinking, caste system, and monkey worshipping--it doesn't mean that we are no longer punjabi anymore.

very true.. that's why you see Punjab of pak is the fountainhead of terror.

Whattt?

Thats a new one!!!!

In the mean time, do check if your sister is still ok...or she got raped in the a$$ like other hindu girls have been in india

 

[AUz]

The Mughals met a befitting end, the "princes" shot naked and the "princesses" all ending up in the kothas of Delhi and Lucknow.

Every super power has the similar end...Read on how many Russian girls were sold in sex-markets of Europe after the fall of communism...You know, there is a reason why "Eastern Europe" (communist bloc previously) is famous for prostitutes and girls' sex-trafficking...

And oh, Mughals definitely "bought" more hindu girls...way more....than British did whatever to Mughal princesses etc...

Mughals made india an economic/military superpower/great power...without them, inferior india would have remained a land of uncivilized, militarily incompetent, poor kingdoms competing each other for eternity...

Mughals made india famous in history...

 

[AUz]

you guys are the by products of that rape my friend.. that's why you respect timurlane and have weapons named after him. Jinnah was the father of your nation so you have institutions named after him. Timur was your actual father, so you have weapons named after him

haha..awww, did it hurt? As I said, Timur HIMSELF *recorded* how he raped hindu women and destroyed hindu temples etc.

Absolutely no record of any conversion because Timur went back and never ruled india!!!! These are just facts...

PS, we have no weapon named after Timur...yet.

We only respect Timur as a conqeurer who remain undefeated and was military genius. For that, we respect Napolean and Alexander too for their skills..big deal? duh!!

Plus I know cow-p!ss drinking takes a toll on hindu minds..so let me break it down for you.."Naming" weapons has NOTHING to do with who you respect etc..It is just "symbolism" to the enemy.

Babur "conquered" india...and hence we have a weapon named after Babur. Go figure the symbolism.

hey paksitani muslim don't show how cheap you guys can get.. oh that's even lowly than you guys can get.

We, the superior Pakistanis, are just showing you your worth. Fcuk off.

 

[Indianpatriot1]

Dude, don't be pathetic. There are many small 'groups' of people in Pakistan which do trace their ancestry outside of subcontinent..and thats not a problem...but majority of Punjabis are punjabis! No one hides it! If you want to check, just open a thread and ask the question "Pakistanis, do you think you are from the land of Punjab/Sindh etc, or from Arabia?" and see the result..

Over-whelming majority of people will not claim "Arabic ancestry" in Pakistan

Just because intelligent Punjabis converted out of hinduism to save themselves from cow-p!ss drinking, caste system, and monkey worshipping--it doesn't mean that we are no longer punjabi anymore.



Whattt?

Thats a new one!!!!

In the mean time, do check if your sister is still ok...or she got raped in the a$$ like other hindu girls have been in india

No one gives a fcuk about your geneology. It is being discussed only because too many Punjabi Muslims have pretensions of being martial, of high lineage, We invaders vs they invaded etc. We all know that you are low caste converts who have always functioned as the doormat of the Indian subcontinent. The underlying psychology and its resultant myth creation are the topics of discussion here...simply in an academic, non judgmental way. The Hindus are well aware that you have never offered the slightest resistance to any invader, nor made any sacrifice towards the freedom struggle of India which is why the British rewarded their lackeys by giving them a country of their own.

The only issue being explored is as to what is it in the mental state which propels a people with zero martial history, ones who have never even produced a ruler, to try and pretend to be the victors over the Hindus who have not only managed to preserve their culture, but have also an unbroken history of resistance to all invaders from the Mughals to the British.

Maybe you could help me here.

 

[Vinod2070]

Every super power has the similar end...Read on how many Russian girls were sold in sex-markets of Europe after the fall of communism...You know, there is a reason why "Eastern Europe" (communist bloc previously) is famous for prostitutes and girls' sex-trafficking...

And oh, Mughals definitely "bought" more hindu girls...way more....than British did whatever to Mughal princesses etc...

Mughals made india an economic/military superpower/great power...without them, inferior india would have remained a land of uncivilized, militarily incompetent, poor kingdoms competing each other for eternity...

Mughals made india famous in history...

I will let you wallow in your self loathing and self incriminating attitude.

You are actually not individually to blame for it. It is just the conditioning. Sir Vidia (V S Naipaul) and many others have actually done a great job of uncovering this seeming baffling self loathing. Now people who read well have a very good understanding of this pathetic psychology of converts like you.

And you are actually doing a good job of exposing the apologists by taking pride in what the apologists deny or try to obfuscate. It only makes people understand that it is the ideology that is the problem, not just the followers. The ideology makes them such haters and self loaths.

You are a perfect example of a typical profile of what so many writers have been writing in detail about. A living, standing tribute to their genius and great perception.

One example:

“Islam is in its origins an Arab religion. Everyone not an Arab who is a Muslim is a convert. Islam is not simply a matter of conscience or private belief. It makes imperial demands. A convert’s worldview alters. His holy places are in Arab lands; his language is Arabic. His idea of history alters. He rejects his own; he becomes, whether he likes it or not, a part of the Arab story. The convert has to turn away from everything that is his. The disturbance for societies is immense, and even after a thousand years can remain unresolved; the turning away has to be done again and again. People develop fantasies about who and what they are; and in the Islam of the converted countries there is an element of neurosis and nihilism. These countries can be easily set on the boil.”

hey paksitani muslim don't show how cheap you guys can get.. oh that's even lowly than you guys can get.

This is what conversion has done to these people.

This cheap fil.thy self hating mentality exposes what they were converted into.

And they are the same people who advertize Islam!

 

[Vinod2070]

you guys are the by products of that rape my friend.. that's why you respect timurlane and have weapons named after him. Jinnah was the father of your nation so you have institutions named after him. Timur was your actual father, so you have weapons named after him

Without getting into specifics, there is a very good statistical chance of that for any Muslim in the subcontinent.

There is a book by C. K. Lal on the Muslim population in the Indian subcontinent over history. Read that and you will know why.

 

[Raj1990]

Without getting into specifics, there is a very good statistical chance of that for any Muslim in the subcontinent.

There is a book by C. K. Lal on the Muslim population in the Indian subcontinent over history. Read that and you will know why.

All the muslim inferiority complex aside, Muslims of South Asia remind me of this famous phrase:

Dhobi ka ku-tta, na ghar ka na ghat ka