West press admit no victory in afghanistan

[lem34]

So it sounds like this...

Americans go right into their house, pull them off the government, kill the most wanted, kill majority of terrorists, no attacks on US' land, but because there are some terrorists hiding in the mountains, the terrorists win and Americans lose!

and some kids here get happy listening to this! the terrorists win and Americans lose!



and some kids here get happy listening to this!

Talebans were killing americans 10 years ago and they are still doing it today. we never expected taleban to "win" it was about what state they would be in when americans started leaving which they have and even press in the west that is normally a voice piece for their propagand accepts america has not won is that too difficult for you to swallow.

 

[gambit]

You are right, I should not only blame the US, I can't fault you in that, yes all the things you mention are paramount in making huge steps in solving the issue. All this however does not negate the fact that the motivation came from the US.

Wrong. For Pakistan, a Soviet controlled Afghanistan was unacceptable when India was an ally of the Soviets at that time. So Pakistan was also highly motivated, if not more than US, to have some degree of instability in Afghanistan. The muslims at large were also motivated to defend Afghanistan purely from a principled stance. So even though we had 'motivation' ours was not alone and by itself incapable of accomplishing anything.

Again just like the Taliban of today are not the mujahedeen of yesterday the US of today is not the US of yesterday, However the Taliban of today wouldn't exist without the mujahedeens of yesterday, and in that respect the US should accept responsibility for creating them. Not that the US hasn't indirectly done so by providing 95% of the bulk of the Afgan force

Now that is straining credibility -- YOURS. This line of argument give unwarranted rhetorical ammunition not just to those like you who would put the moral burden of 'righting' every wrong in the world simply by virtue of foreign policy involvement but also to US as well: The Taliban of today would not exist without the religion called Islam. Or how about Islamic terrorism in Asia? Your line of argument is simplistic and broad enough that we can say the same for that part of the world as well. Thanks for the ammo.

 

[lem34]

self delete

 

[amalakas]

Wrong. For Pakistan, a Soviet controlled Afghanistan was unacceptable when India was an ally of the Soviets at that time. So Pakistan was also highly motivated, if not more than US, to have some degree of instability in Afghanistan. The muslims at large were also motivated to defend Afghanistan purely from a principled stance. So even though we had 'motivation' ours was not alone and by itself incapable of accomplishing anything.


Now that is straining credibility -- YOURS. This line of argument give unwarranted rhetorical ammunition not just to those like you who would put the moral burden of 'righting' every wrong in the world simply by virtue of foreign policy involvement but also to US as well: The Taliban of today would not exist without the religion called Islam. Or how about Islamic terrorism in Asia? Your line of argument is simplistic and broad enough that we can say the same for that part of the world as well. Thanks for the ammo.

First, I don't think Pakistan is anything close to what the US was at the time as a global player, not will it ever be.

Second. Why are you so hell bent on assuming that history is made up of solitary moments unrelated to each other?

Simplistic or not, US actions in Afganistan did to whatever degree you regard as acceptable, influence later events.
It is a matter of opinion. Mine is they influenced a lot. Yours, drop in the ocean, I am nor american nor Afgani, guess who is less likely to be biassed.

what is so hard for you to accept?

 

[lem34]

Getting back to thread its nice to see their own press which normally is a conduit for propaganda admitting that even with all its might americans could not defeat the taleban

 

[Yeti]

Getting Bin ladin was seen as a victory hence the big celebrations in NYC

 

[lem34]

Getting Bin ladin was seen as a victory hence the big celebrations in NYC

Yet you cant argue that even their own press accepts that it is no victory in afghanistan. And you know the attck on the twin towers was symbolically an attack on american capitalism wasnt Osama talking about bleeding americans and isnt it a fact that they are spending well beyond their means and well on the road to bankruptcy. So whose really won?

 

[Yeti]

Yet you cant argue that even their own press accepts that it is no victory in afghanistan. And you know the attck on the twin towers was symbolically an attack on american capitalism wasnt Osama talking about bleeding americans and isnt it a fact that they are spending well beyond their means and well on the road to bankruptcy. So whose really won?

Depends how you look at a victory, was Iraq selling oil to America b4 9/11? nope and is Iraq now buying American defence equipment and selling oil yes it is so who really won?

 

[lem34]

Depends how you look at a victory, was Iraq selling oil to America b4 9/11? nope and is Iraq now buying American defence equipment and selling oil yes it is so who really won?

Sorry mate I thought we were discussing afghanistan thats the title on the thread

 

[Yeti]

Sorry mate I thought we were discussing afghanistan thats the title on the thread

Obama will make it look like 'job done' it will be neither a victory nor a defeat the end game will be training up more afghani troops so NATO can leave in dignity and crushing al qaeda which was what the 'war on terror' was about in the first place.

 

[lem34]

Obama will make it look like 'job done' it will be neither a victory nor a defeat the end game will be training up more afghani troops so NATO can leave in dignity and crushing al qaeda which was what the 'war on terror' was about in the first place.

They are not leaving with dignity. They are leaving and more americans have been killed in afghanistan this month then any other month, more to the point this thread their own press accepts they have no victory no matter what a few psychophantic indians think

 

[jamal18]

To win, the Taliban just have to stay in the fight. As long as they are an intact force they are winning.

The Americans have to eliminate the Taliban to win.

At the end, it is the Americans who will tire and go back. The Taliban have no where to go 'back' to. They live there.

 

[lem34]

To win, the Taliban just have to stay in the fight. As long as they are an intact force they are winning.

The Americans have to eliminate the Taliban to win.

At the end, it is the Americans who will tire and go back. The Taliban have no where to go 'back' to. They live there.

Americans are already starting to go home

 

[Yeti]

They are not leaving with dignity. They are leaving and more americans have been killed in afghanistan this month then any other month, more to the point this thread their own press accepts they have no victory no matter what a few psychophantic indians think

Was Indians thinking got to do with it? it all depends on how u determine what is a victory if it was defeating al qaeda then yes it can be deemed as a victory of some sort.

 

[lem34]

Was Indians thinking got to do with it? it all depends on how u determine what is a victory if it was defeating al qaeda then yes it can be deemed as a victory of some sort.

Well you lot seem to be the only one that seem to think that they have won and or are winning. Also stop wasting time i have responded to how osama even in death has won or taleban won in earlier posts