West press admit no victory in afghanistan

[Last Hope]

The Taliban and al-Qaeda are the muslims' mess. Once this problem is resolved, Americans will be more than happy to return to Afghanistan and rebuild what was lost and build new what has never been.

Let's see. If they are our mess, then let us clean them up.
And we are cleaning them up in our area, and we are really successful.
Wonder why you aren't?

And if they are our mess, then why do you all take the credit for creating and training them and the credit for breaking USSR?
Muslims should get that. But no. We don't want it cause they aren't our lot. They were trained and aided by you all, with us (ISI) working as front agents.

At the topic posted, that is true.
The objective was to catch the culprits of 9/11, and that's done now.
Countless lives of both innocents as well as terrorists of both sides have been lost, and it bring any further good staying in and fighting. It has been causing more of damage than good..!

 

[amalakas]

The Taliban and al-Qaeda are the muslims' mess. Once this problem is resolved, Americans will be more than happy to return to Afghanistan and rebuild what was lost and build new what has never been.

I think you missed my point. I meant that both are USA's creation (directly or indirectly) to fight the soviets. Now that the enemy is no longer there, the weapon needs to be dealt with .. your mess your clean up ...

 

[Desert Fox]

The Taliban and al-Qaeda are the muslims' mess. Once this problem is resolved, Americans will be more than happy to return to Afghanistan and rebuild what was lost and build new what has never been.

Look Gambit, its Ronald Reagan meeting with Jallaludin Haqani (AKA so called "Muslim's" mess)

Not only is this the "Muslim's" mess, but this is also the USA's mess. Before the Afghan Soviet war (in other words before the West supported terrorists) these lunatics didn't have any publicity and spent much of their time either in prison or on the run from socialist and nationalist dictators.

 

[lem34]

Wonder why no one publish a headline like: 'Al-Qaeda admit no victory in Afghanistan.'

ask your western press

 

[gambit]

I think you missed my point. I meant that both are USA's creation (directly or indirectly) to fight the soviets. Now that the enemy is no longer there, the weapon needs to be dealt with .. your mess your clean up ...

Indirectly? That mean there are others involved. Or are we seeing selectively memory here? We did not invoke the call for muslims to defend muslim lands. The mullahs did. What I am saying here is that if we agree that the current mess is a direct result of a collaboration between many parties in common interests but with different tools, then we should hold those parties responsible and demand that they rebuild Afghanistan with the same tools they employed before.

The US have no problems doing our part. We are a proven nation of gadgeteers, tinkerers and builders so instead of Stinger missiles, we will bring Caterpillar bulldozers, plenty of concrete and whatever else needed. We can bring the physical aspects of Afghanistan from the 7th century to the 21st century toot-sweet. Too bad the muslims are not willing to do their part in bringing the intellectual side of Afghanistan from the 7th century to the 21st. Heck, we are willing to settle for 19th or even 18th century.

 

[lem34]

Indirectly? That mean there are others involved. Or are we seeing selectively memory here? We did not invoke the call for muslims to defend muslim lands. The mullahs did. What I am saying here is that if we agree that the current mess is a direct result of a collaboration between many parties in common interests but with different tools, then we should hold those parties responsible and demand that they rebuild Afghanistan with the same tools they employed before.

The US have no problems doing our part. We are a proven nation of gadgeteers, tinkerers and builders so instead of Stinger missiles, we will bring Caterpillar bulldozers, plenty of concrete and whatever else needed. We can bring the physical aspects of Afghanistan from the 7th century to the 21st century toot-sweet. Too bad the muslims are not willing to do their part in bringing the intellectual side of Afghanistan from the 7th century to the 21st. Heck, we are willing to settle for 19th or even 18th century.

and then you will want your pound of flesh for all the shylocks in america

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Americans have small memories - a friend of today is enemy of tomorrow for USA

The way you tell American policy is who they sell their F35 planes to (high tech gadgets)

Those who get the toned down version are not really part of the BIG plan

 

[Oldman1]

ask your western press

Whats a western press? An article from an author expressing his opinion?

 

[Numba9hockey]

Afghanistan is the "graveyard of empires", Even tho, to the fullest extent, i support American and NATO troops, i believe Afghanistan was a mistake. Pull out, If Afghanistan does not want to become civilized then that's there problem. Democracy doesn't work everywhere. We have bigger problems to be worrying about. Osama is dead, and he should have died right after 9/11. A war this complicated is to hard to fight. It's not conventional warfare. It's peacekeeping, which is a waste. War should not be fought like this.

 

[below_freezing]

Afghanistan is the "graveyard of empires", Even tho, to the fullest extent, i support American and NATO troops, i believe Afghanistan was a mistake. Pull out, If Afghanistan does not want to become civilized then that's there problem. Democracy doesn't work everywhere. We have bigger problems to be worrying about. Osama is dead, and he should have died right after 9/11. A war this complicated is to hard to fight. It's not conventional warfare. It's peacekeeping, which is a waste. War should not be fought like this.

but without peacekeeping how will you exploit Afghanistan's 1 trillion USD mineral deposits?

or how will you set up military bases to check Iran, Russia, China and pakistan all at the same time?

 

[amalakas]

Indirectly? That mean there are others involved. Or are we seeing selectively memory here? We did not invoke the call for muslims to defend muslim lands. The mullahs did. What I am saying here is that if we agree that the current mess is a direct result of a collaboration between many parties in common interests but with different tools, then we should hold those parties responsible and demand that they rebuild Afghanistan with the same tools they employed before.

The US have no problems doing our part. We are a proven nation of gadgeteers, tinkerers and builders so instead of Stinger missiles, we will bring Caterpillar bulldozers, plenty of concrete and whatever else needed. We can bring the physical aspects of Afghanistan from the 7th century to the 21st century toot-sweet. Too bad the muslims are not willing to do their part in bringing the intellectual side of Afghanistan from the 7th century to the 21st. Heck, we are willing to settle for 19th or even 18th century.

But it is not about earth moving equipment gambit.

The US in their need to fight the Soviets, found a very convenient dog to feed in the shape of the Taliban in Afganistan.
They funded and fed it, trained it, taught it how and where the soviets would hurt the most. That is the directly bit

And the dog did bite the soviets, but then it kind of grew and grew and grew and then it wanted to bite someone else.
All the training and the funding went into creating Al-Qaeda, that is the indirectly part.

Now the international terrorism is targeting the west. Mostly US, but at the end of the day even if you want more help,

and even poor tiny Greece has a small force in Afganistan (which costs millions per day to be there), it is mostly your mess and mostly you should clean up.

It is not about rebuilding .. you fed the Taliban, you need to put them out of bussiness for good and once and for all.
oh and acknowledge that narcotics production has tripled since the US led invasion in Afganistan..

 

[gambit]

But it is not about earth moving equipment gambit.

The US in their need to fight the Soviets, found a very convenient dog to feed in the shape of the Taliban in Afganistan.
They funded and fed it, trained it, taught it how and where the soviets would hurt the most. That is the directly bit

And the dog did bite the soviets, but then it kind of grew and grew and grew and then it wanted to bite someone else.
All the training and the funding went into creating Al-Qaeda, that is the indirectly part.

Now the international terrorism is targeting the west. Mostly US, but at the end of the day even if you want more help,

and even poor tiny Greece has a small force in Afganistan (which costs millions per day to be there), it is mostly your mess and mostly you should clean up.

It is not about rebuilding .. you fed the Taliban, you need to put them out of bussiness for good and once and for all.
oh and acknowledge that narcotics production has tripled since the US led invasion in Afganistan..

But the Taliban of today is not the mujahedeens of yesterday. You felled for it: Hook, line and sinker.

It was not just US but Pakistan as well. The muslims supplied the manpower, motivated by religion. Pakistan supplied the corporate training of the mujahedeens. The US supplied the weapons. If any of the legs is missing, the stool collapse. Likewise for today, if any of the legs is missing, the reformation of Afghanistan will fail. We need Pakistan to deny the Taliban and al-Qaeda territories in which they can retreat to and hide. We need the mullahs across the ME to convince the muslims that the Taliban's version of Islam is not the correct one. As for US, I do not need to elaborate because what we do best we are trying to do in Afghanistan. Blaming US only is convenient because it does not involve reading a bit of history and critical thinking.

 

[amalakas]

But the Taliban of today is not the mujahedeens of yesterday. You felled for it: Hook, line and sinker.

It was not just US but Pakistan as well. The muslims supplied the manpower, motivated by religion. Pakistan supplied the corporate training of the mujahedeens. The US supplied the weapons. If any of the legs is missing, the stool collapse. Likewise for today, if any of the legs is missing, the reformation of Afghanistan will fail. We need Pakistan to deny the Taliban and al-Qaeda territories in which they can retreat to and hide. We need the mullahs across the ME to convince the muslims that the Taliban's version of Islam is not the correct one. As for US, I do not need to elaborate because what we do best we are trying to do in Afghanistan. Blaming US only is convenient because it does not involve reading a bit of history and critical thinking.

You are right, I should not only blame the US, I can't fault you in that, yes all the things you mention are paramount in making huge steps in solving the issue. All this however does not negate the fact that the motivation came from the US.

Again just like the Taliban of today are not the mujahedeen of yesterday the US of today is not the US of yesterday, However the Taliban of today wouldn't exist without the mujahedeens of yesterday, and in that respect the US should accept responsibility for creating them. Not that the US hasn't indirectly done so by providing 95% of the bulk of the Afgan force

 

[lem34]

Whats a western press? An article from an author expressing his opinion?

Some people on the this forum prefer a source thats a european or american name or newspaper cos they foolishly in my opinion think its gives it more credibility. But my reason for making th epoint was that it was western because the west normally give wests view. So I ma saying that even your press accept that americans have not won

 

[Major Ram]

So it sounds like this...

Americans go right into their house, pull them off the government, kill the most wanted, kill majority of terrorists, no attacks on US' land, but because there are some terrorists hiding in the mountains, the terrorists win and Americans lose!

and some kids here get happy listening to this! the terrorists win and Americans lose!

and some kids here get happy listening to this!