Welcome To Yanbian, China’s Flourishing “Third Korea”

[Dungeness]

I nver understood this concept. Why not just use Xinjiang as Xinjiang why add autonomous region? Tibet should just be Western Frontier or Western China.

Yanbi should just be Yanbi, not Korean autonomous region. @TaiShang @Martian2 et al, what is the reason for this stupid naming scheme? By doing so it never unite Chinese. That is why I like American ideology such that when you are born in America you are American and not ethnic minority Chinese, Japanese, Indian, etc. It brings more cohesion.
What's this bs about recognizing 56 ethnic minority group?

There was time in modern Chinese history, that the new government of CCP, had to either use force to conquer or promise "autonomous status" to persuade ethnic minorities, that had never been fully under control of Han Chinese historically, to be part of PRC. It was right thing to do to avoid bloodshed, and it should be lifted now.

It is a legacy of the civil war. The communists wanted as much support as they can, and to gain legitimacy in the eyes of not only domestic people, but international people. All these administrative divisions were created under Mao. And I agree that they have outlived their usefulness.

I would say Guangxi Zhuang Zu Autonomous Region should be the first to lift its "autonomous" status, and I don't anticipate any meaningful resistance from there, based on what I know about the people there.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

It is a legacy of the civil war. The communists wanted as much support as they can, and to gain legitimacy in the eyes of not only domestic people, but international people. All these administrative divisions were created under Mao. And I agree that they have outlived their usefulness.

Mao was too nice and too idealistic, but the current Chinese leadership will be much more realistic.

Agree. Just imagine once 2 Korea's are unified, what the "3rd Korea" would do. China should start the process to eliminate all "autonomous" crap. The concept has outlived its usefulness, and became merely a territorial identity that artificially divides Chinese people geographically and psychologically. I think it is a potential thread to China's national integrity.

The ethnic Koreans in Yanbian were all immigrants from the Korean peninsula, and they were not natives there.

Yes, I do agree that all those autonomous craps should be eliminated in the near future. Even it was created by the great leader like Mao, but it doesn't mean that Mao was right on every issue.

All Chinese ethnic groups are Chinese, so you better to follow the conformity like the rest of China.

No more those special privilege craps for the minority groups, everybody should be treated as same.

 

[Jlaw]

Mao was too nice and too idealistic, but the current Chinese leadership will be much more realistic.



The ethnic Koreans in Yanbian were all immigrants from the Korean peninsula, and they were not natives there.

Yes, I do agree that all those autonomous craps should be eliminated in the near future. Even it was created by the great leader like Mao, but it doesn't mean that Mao was right on every issue.

All Chinese ethnic groups are Chinese, so you better to follow the conformity like the rest of China.

No more those special privilege craps for the minority groups, everybody should be treated as same.

True. No other nation in the world recognizes its minorities like China. You know as well as I do, in Canada French and English is official language but there is no official recognition for being French-Canadian, which is a good thing.

Can you imagine Quebec autonomous Francophone province. That shit will not fly here!

 

[nang2]

Mao was too nice and too idealistic, but the current Chinese leadership will be much more realistic.



The ethnic Koreans in Yanbian were all immigrants from the Korean peninsula, and they were not natives there.

Yes, I do agree that all those autonomous craps should be eliminated in the near future. Even it was created by the great leader like Mao, but it doesn't mean that Mao was right on every issue.

All Chinese ethnic groups are Chinese, so you better to follow the conformity like the rest of China.

No more those special privilege craps for the minority groups, everybody should be treated as same.

autonomous craps were borrowed from Soviet. Of course, we have already seen how good it did to Soviet.

 

[Aepsilons]

True. No other nation in the world recognizes its minorities like China. You know as well as I do, in Canada French and English is official language but there is no official recognition for being French-Canadian, which is a good thing.

Can you imagine Quebec autonomous Francophone province. That shit will not fly here!

Well thats because historically Quebec was part of the French Colony, so there is a precedence.

autonomous craps were borrowed from Soviet. Of course, we have already seen how good it did to Soviet.

Actually China is not the only ones, even in the northern subprefectures in Hokkaido, the autonomous Ainu areas are given self rule to appease their cultural sensitivities. It is not only in China or Russia that have these autonomous zones, but many other parts of the world. These are done to prevent sectarian or civil discord among-st diverse populations.

 

[Jlaw]

Well thats because historically Quebec was part of the French Colony, so there is a precedence.

But the point is there is no Quebec autonomous region. Canada used to be French controlled but after the battle of Plains of Abraham, it became English controlled.

Battle of the Plains of Abraham - The Canadian Encyclopedia

 

[Aepsilons]

But the point is there is no Quebec autonomous region. Canada used to be French controlled but during the battle of Plains of Abraham, it became English controlled.

Battle of the Plains of Abraham - The Canadian Encyclopedia

I suppose there was a trade off in the Dominion of Canada, bro. Ottawa probably decided, or from the higher ups in London's Office of Imperial Directorate, to maintain French as an official language to appease the French sensitivities. If let's say Quebecois folks were forced to speak English, and English customs were imposed on them, then there would have been a civil strife. The English, in their expertise in multihemispherical governance , probably knew it was necessary to keep some 'French' customs for the sake of the Dominion's continuity. Les they lose Canada as well like they did to the American 13 colonies.

 

[nang2]

Actually China is not the only ones, even in the northern subprefectures in Hokkaido, the autonomous Ainu areas are given self rule to appease their cultural sensitivities. It is not only in China or Russia that have these autonomous zones, but many other parts of the world. These are done to prevent sectarian or civil discord among-st diverse populations.

Maybe I should say the autonomous craps China is using. It is actually quite different from what China historically practiced. In many places, it is just an overkill for the sake of political correctness, which simply means the Soviet model. Yanbian is one of them. The Guangxi (the one to the west of Guangdong (Canton) province) is another.

 

[Aepsilons]

Maybe I should say the autonomous craps China is using. It is actually quite different from what China historically practiced. In many places, it is just an overkill for the sake of political correctness, which simply means the Soviet model. Yanbian is one of them. The Guangxi (the one to the west of Guangdong (Canton) province) is another.

Well for example there are many autonomous subprefectures in Northern Hokkaido, one of them is オホーツク総合振興局 -- or Okhotsk Subprefecture, where the majority of the people here are Ainu Japanese (in fact my maternal grandmother's side is from a city in Okhotsk called Nishiokoppe.) The local governor there is an Ainu Japanese with the city government keeping old Ainu customs, which is unique from the culture in Tokyo or Central Japan. The reason why Tokyo keeps these subprefectures alive is to appease the Ainu minority and to keep ethnic collaboration healthy , and prevent the Ainu people of feeling persecuted by the Japanese. Ultimately, the role of these autonomous zones is to keep ethnic harmony.

 

[Aepsilons]

Welcome To Yanbian, China’s Flourishing “Third Korea”

Sometimes called the "third Korea," the Yanbian Autonomous Prefecture plays a particular role in the complicated relationship between China and the two Koreas: This Chinese territory in the Jilin province, a bit larger than Belgium, is home to a significant population of Korean origin whose presence dates back to the Qing dynasty. At the end of the 19th century, the empire decided to regulate the colonies of Korean farmers, hoping to block Russian progress. They now represent a major part of the 2 million Chinese of Korean origin. And thanks to their dynamism, they have turned Yabian into one the most urbanized regions in northeast Chinese. More than half of the 800,000 residents of Yanji, the capital of Yanbian, has a Korean background.

A mini Seoul

Since the policy of openness launched by Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping in 1979, Yanbian has prospered thanks to its relationship with South Korea. Chinese-Korean families started very early sending their relatives to work in the Yanbian's factories and services, and most of those who live in Seoul’s Chinatown are Chinese people of Korean origin. Korea's economic success in the 1990s and the popularity of South Korean culture in China drove the most dynamic of these migrant workers to return to Yanji and open restaurants and businesses, turning the autonomous region into a mini Seoul on Chinese soil. As for the young Chinese-Korean graduates from Yanbian, major Korean companies with established factories on the Chinese Shandong coast aggressively recruit them.

On the other hand, the proximity with North Korea is a source of frustration and false hopes for Yanbian residents: The border is still a dead end, as there is only a handful of much-regulated frontier posts between China and North Korea. The Tumen River, narrow and shallow, remains the crossing point for most North Korean refugees. Dandong, the large Chinese border city to the west, serves as the main logistical corridor for cross-border business.

But Cui Zhehao, a Chinese-Korean economist from the University of Yanbian, says the special North Korean economic zone of Rajin-Sonbong, on the other side of the border, has suffered less from the deterioration of relations between China and North Korea than the rest of the country. "North Koreans are trying to make Rajin-Sonbong adopt a Chinese model and, for that, they depend on the presence of the Chinese and its economic support," he says. "As for China, it needs an access to the ocean. So, on both sides, there are many reasons to cooperate."

The name Yanbian seems very familiar with the Korean word 양반, which is Yangban, a word that refers to the gentry ruling class of the Imperial Joseon Dynasty of the now extinct Korean Empire. Possibility that the Korean ethnics that went to Northern China in this so called "Yanbian Province" were descendants of Korean civil aristocracy class known as Yangban.

I can argue to guess that after the collapse of Japan's Imperial Province of Chosen after the end of the 2nd world war, Korean Yangban class , who also were active in Japan's Korean civil administration, probably left for China. With the onset of the Korean War , I can argue to say that most probably well to do Yangban had to options: 1) Stay in Korea , 2) Move to China.

 

[beijingwalker]

" some Chaoxianzu scholars were involved in advocating a more pro-Chinese view of the Goguryeo controversies over ancient Sino-Korean history, which has been a cause of diplomatic protest between the Chinese and South Korean governments. Aside from that, some Chaoxianzu students studying in Korea were accused of violence towards South Korean demonstrators who were conducting anti-PRC protests at the 2008 Summer Olympics torch relay"

Most Korean Chinese totally identify themselves as Chinese.

 

[oprih]

There's so many Koreans living in China, a good number of Chinese are also living in South Korea. This simply shows that the Chinese and Koreans have good relationship and mutual respect with each other therefore being comfortable to live with each other.

 

[TaiShang]

True. No other nation in the world recognizes its minorities like China. You know as well as I do, in Canada French and English is official language but there is no official recognition for being French-Canadian, which is a good thing.

Can you imagine Quebec autonomous Francophone province. That shit will not fly here!

I think modern China, from the start, imagined a different nation-making process: Rather than then from general (national identity) to specific (ethnic identity), they adopted a from specific (ethnic identity) to general (national identity). China's leadership has given priority to maintaining national unity at all cost (including giving out autonomous status) to first ensure development, which, ideally, should later act as a nation builder, rather than forcing a national identity upon poor/uneducated people. Any potential social crisis in the early decades of China's development would place huge pressure on the economy, hampering growth.

Now we are at a different stage where the nation has achieved a certain level of development and capability and hundreds of millions are already near middle class levels in their life styles. In my opinion, this is the right stage to start strong nation-building around a single national identity. I agree that China should start getting rid of the now archaic titles one by one, and perhaps let this be done by the local governments themselves, while promoting the national identity around common themes such as "The China Dream."

As a start, this could be done as part of a package policy such under an overall reform in administrative classification, neatly dividing China into provinces, prefectures, cities, town, villages etc. Giving it a serious scientific name will keep Western and other born-China-haters away.

 

[S10]

Those ethnic autonomous region designations are both anti-democratic and discriminatory. What gives one ethnic minority the right to declare the region as theirs when the law clearly stated everyone is equal?

It's a relic borrowed from the failed Soviet Union, but nobody has the guts to challenge the mistake. This set up is one of the basis of ethnic separatism. Instead of encouraging a single national identity, the government is artificially creating division.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

I would say Guangxi Zhuang Zu Autonomous Region should be the first to lift its "autonomous" status, and I don't anticipate any meaningful resistance from there, based on what I know about the people there.

In the case of Guangxi, the population of that province has NEVER been majority Zhuang, has always been dominated by Hans. Still, it was made an autonomous province on its own.

Rather, the communists were so crazy, they themselves made up a latin romanized script for writing the Zhuang Language, something like the Vietnamese. Despite the fact that Zhuang people have almost always used authentic Chinese characters. Zhuang are indeed completely Chinese. Being Chinese is a matter of culture, and family bond, not of ethnicity. So it has always been.

Among the Other autonomous provinces, Xinjiang was dominated by Uygurs until recently, and Tibet by Tibetans. Inner Mongolia has been dominated by the Hans since around the 1800s. And Ningxia has always been Han area.

But Ningxia had a sizeable Hui population, who were very active in politics, and military. There were many good Hui Scholars, Generals, and Soldiers through out Chinese History. It was hence explainable that their support was important in the civil war. Also, they really wanted a bit of autonomy. And they were also demanding it.

In the case of Guangxi, no one, literally NO ONE demanded anything. It was served on a platter.