'We trusted the government to fight for us': Kerala fishermen disappointed in Italian marines case

[Immortan.Joe]

'We trusted the government to fight for us': Kerala fishermen disappointed in Italian marines case
The UN court would not have allowed Italy’s plea to return the marine if India had fought the case strongly, allege family.

Image credit: AFP/STR




TK Devasia
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The family of Valentine Jelastine, one of the two fishermen shot dead by two Italian marines off the Kerala coast four years ago, doubts whether they will ever get justice.

Jelastine’s widow, Doramma, does not understand the legal intricacies and political issues behind the case. She told Scroll.in that her belief that the killers of her husband will get the punishment they deserve has been diminishing year after year.

“We had trusted the government to fight for us. I doubt whether the government has done its job properly,” Doramma said referring to the United Nations Arbitration Court’s latest order allowing the lone marine detained in the country to return home.

The international tribunal at Hague had on Monday ruled that Salvatore Girone, who is facing murder charge along with Massimiliano Latorre, could return home. While Latorre is in Italy since 2014 following a stroke he suffered while on bail in India, Girone is staying at the Italian embassy in New Delhi.

Though the Narendra Modi government has claimed that Girone will be allowed to leave the country only subject to conditions to be laid down by the Supreme Court of India, fishermen’s bodies express doubt whether government would insist on tougher conditions.

This is in the light of the allegations that Prime Minister Narendra Modi had offered to free the marines in exchange of information that links Congress president Sonia Gandhi and her family to the Rs 3,600-crore AgustaWestland helicopter scam.

The National Fishworkers Forum is of the firm view that the marine should not be allowed to leave the country. Anto Alias, Kerala unit vice-president of Forum, said that the UN court would not have allowed Italy’s plea to return the marine if India had fought the case vigorously. He alleged that the government had failed to represent the case strongly.

“How can we expect the Modi government that did not put up a strong defence in the international court to take strong position in the Supreme Court? The government is fooling the fishermen. If they value the lives of fishermen, the killer of our fishermen should not be allowed to leave the country,” Anto said.

Conspiracy charges

He said that there every reason to believe that there was some sort of conspiracy in the case. He urged the prime minister to make a statement on the allegations doing the rounds about “match fixing”. The fishermen, who toil hard in the sea for their living, have a right to know the truth, he added.

“If the killers of the fishermen are let off, we will not be able to go to sea fearlessly. Where is the guarantee to the lives and property of fishermen when the authorities are trying to protect the killers? There is nobody to hear our voice,” Anto said, adding that the forum will launch an agitation after the Assembly elections on May 16 if Girone is allowed to go back to Italy.

T Peter, national secretary of the forum, said that they were deeply dissatisfied with the international court’s ruling. He urged the government to take steps to prevent the Italian marine’s return. He wants the prime minister to raise the issue at international platforms and MPs to take it up in Parliament.

Unfulfilled promises

Doramma is doubtful about this. She said that none had bothered to find out how they were living after they lost their family’s sole breadwinner. Though Italian government had made several promises to secure their future, they seem to have forgotten them.

She said representatives from Italian embassy in New Delhi used to visit them until two years ago. They had promised to find a job for her son, who is completing his B Tech degree this year. She doesn’t know whether they will keep their word.

Fortunately, Doramma has saved the entire compensation the family has got from the Italian government. They continue to live in the small house her husband built. She has not even tried to renovate the house, which is in bad shape.

Doramma has put the entire Rs 1 crore she received from Italian government in fixed deposits in the name of her two children. They live a simple life with the salary she is getting from the last grade job offered to her by the state government following the murder of Jelastine.

Though four years have passed since the murder, Doramma and her children have not come out of the shock. Jelastine, a god fearing man without any vices, had gone for fishing as usual along with nine other fishermen from the Neendakara fishing harbour near Kollam in February 2012.

Tragedy on the sea

The tragedy struck the family on February 15 when the marines, who were posted as securitymen aboard the Italian registered cargo vessel Enrica Lexie to protect the ship from the Somalian pirates that operate in the western Indian Ocean, mistook the fishermen for pirates and shot two of them dead. The marines opened fire from their automatic weapons without any warning.

The case, initially investigated by the Kerala police, got mired in controversy after the Supreme Court on 18 January 2013 directed National Investigation Agency to probe the case and asked the Centre to set up a special court to conduct trial on a day-to-day basis.

The accused had then moved the apex court challenging the jurisdiction of NIA to prosecute and probe the case under the stringent Unlawful Acts Against Safety of Maritime Navigation And Fixed Platforms on Continental Shelf Act that attracts death penalty as maximum punishment.

Though the government of India resolved the contentious issue with Italy, the latter moved the international court raising the issue of jurisdiction. The case has been stuck in legal tangles since then.

Though the Congress is geared to launch a massive attack on the Modi government in Parliament over the UN court ruling, the party men in the poll-bound Kerala are yet to take cognisance of the issue despite the Bharatiya Janata Party’s attempt to showcase the development agenda of their government at the Centre in the poll campaign.


http://scroll.in/article/807589/we-...ishermen-disappointed-in-italian-marines-case

Another shitty outtake from Troll.in. Did not read it.

Though for some loser fishermen who are crying, they are the one's who accepted bribe money and forgave their family's killer, aptly guided by fifth columnist Church.

Though GoI did the right thing and push this case through, but these fisherman ,after accepting blood money, has no right to bit(h around.

If the Indian govt. let the marines go free for the sake of Indian ties with Italy then it would be a huge disappointment for those who see India's status as a strong power in the World and believes that the foremost duty of the Indian govt is to protect and provide justice to its citizens.

Why not?

If India gets good deal in bargain. This is not even a case of malafide. Those marines made a genuine mistake . And there is thorny issue of jurisdiction.

So life of Indian citizens is worth less than all of this? I for one thinks UPA had bigger balls than this govt when dealing with this kind of crisis. . This govt sucks big time regarding incidents like this.. look at the visa issue,climate control, agreement with US and now this,

Well if your own nationals sell themselves for short, there is not much that could be done.

 

[Photon]

Wrong, when there is a international dispute between two countries and one refers it to the UN hence the WTO ruling the Americans won against India. Now they passed the verdict it is a international court, you have to accept it and swallow like a good boy.

Lol , I don't operate on conjectures, but on hard facts.

Read what Hague is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_Court_of_Arbitration

 

[Star Wars]

Oh look you believe it? Lol when that marine goes Rome with a big smile on his face what you going to do? Hey the other one had a stroke right? You believe thst? Lol

Many of you need a hug from shree shree or better still write a letter to the pope he will come wash your feet. Bunch of idiots really no shame.

The Supreme Court allowed the first Marine to go back because he did have a stroke. If you think he did not or he was faking it or he somehow magically managed to dupe the Supreme Court into going back, then provide the evidence to the Supreme Court, not in PDF.

The Second one has not gone to Italy yet, the two Marines did go to Italy and they did return. Besides comparing this to Bhopal is irrelevant, Italy is no where as nearly as influential as US. The Supreme Court decides now, Not Italy, not UN and not Indian govt.

 

[RedLabel]

Wrong, when there is a international dispute between two countries and one refers it to the UN hence the WTO ruling the Americans won against India. Now they passed the verdict it is a international court, you have to accept it and swallow like a good boy.

The Permanent Court of Arbitration is NOT a court. It is a general misconception.

It is an Tribunal made up of Bureaucrats who arbitrate between Nations for resolving bilateral issues involving trade, sovereignty, etc.

Their rule is not binding but it is an effective mechanism to resolve troubling bilateral issues.

Veer Savarkar had approached them when he was illegally arrested by the British India military police when he escaped into France. They however ruled against him even though it was clear that the British had no right to arrest him in France.

This just shows that this tribunal does not really go by "justice" but by international clout.

But since India is a signatory to this treaty and we might need them in the future for our own self interest, it will be foolish to disregard their ruling. Tomorrow an Indian might need their ruling to get free.

End of the day the ball is with the SC.

 

[Dr Gupta]

The Supreme Court allowed the first Marine to go back because he did have a stroke. If you think he did not or he was faking it or he somehow magically managed to dupe the Supreme Court into going back, then provide the evidence to the Supreme Court, not in PDF.

The Second one has not gone to Italy yet, the two Marines did go to Italy and they did return. Besides comparing this to Bhopal is irrelevant, Italy is no where as nearly as influential as US. The Supreme Court decides now, Not Italy, not UN and not Indian govt.

Have you seen his medical report? Can I see it please? Do you think I believe that crap? A young fit marine having a stroke?

Rubbish the Hague decided it not the supreme Court! Yes he must report to the Supreme court there is some things like not leaving Italy etc but that judgement was not made by the Supreme court

The Permanent Court of Arbitration is NOT a court. It is a general misconception.

It is an Tribunal made up of Bureaucrats who arbitrate between Nations for resolving bilateral issues involving trade, sovereignty, etc.

Their rule is not binding but it is an effective mechanism to resolve troubling bilateral issues.

Veer Savarkar had approached them when he was illegally arrested by the British India military police when he escaped into France. They however ruled against him even though it was clear that the British had no right to arrest him in France.

This just shows that this tribunal does not really go by "justice" but by international clout.

But since India is a signatory to this treaty and we might need them in the future for our own self interest, it will be foolish to disregard their ruling. Tomorrow an Indian might need their ruling to get free.

End of the day the ball is with the SC.

We signed up to the UN charter we signed it now we going to say sorry we do not accept the verdict? No my friend we have to swallow it.

 

[RedLabel]

The Supreme Court allowed the first Marine to go back because he did have a stroke. If you think he did not or he was faking it or he somehow magically managed to dupe the Supreme Court into going back, then provide the evidence to the Supreme Court, not in PDF.

The Second one has not gone to Italy yet, the two Marines did go to Italy and they did return. Besides comparing this to Bhopal is irrelevant, Italy is no where as nearly as influential as US. The Supreme Court decides now, Not Italy, not UN and not Indian govt.

This is RUBBISH.

The SC gave them Bail, it was the Congress govt. who allowed the Marines to go back for "christmas". The Marine then went to Italy and claimed that he suffered a stroke and submitted a medical certificate to that effect.

The SC had no choice but to take it at face value an extend his bail and accept the 'medical opinion" that he is not 'Fit for travel' . Of course the SC could have called his bluff, but choose not to. Probably under congress govt. pressure.

We signed up to the UN charter we signed it now we going to say sorry we do not accept the verdict? No my friend we have to swallow it.

As I said, its not a 'verdict'. Its a ruling of a tribunal.

it is for the SC to regard or disregard it.

Paying up is a fully acceptable way to resolve such matters.
In pirate infested waters, it is important that ships get protection.
Mistakes may happen and will happen.

Italy needs to apologize, money needs to be handed over, the Marines needs to be freed,
but as a precaution, not be assigned similar duties.
Fishermen need to stay away from large vessels.
No honour is beeing trampled on if this happens.

Indian waters are not 'pirate infested waters'.

So it is highly doubtful that the shooting was a 'mistake'. In all probability it was done in arrogance and spite. They need to be punished for this crime. It is as simple as that.

Fishermen's right to fish around large vessels has no bearing on the case.

 

[Star Wars]

This is RUBBISH.

The SC gave them Bail, it was the Congress govt. who allowed the Marines to go back for "christmas". The Marine then went to Italy and claimed that he suffered a stroke and submitted a medical certificate to that effect.

The SC had no choice but to take it at face value an extend his bail and accept the 'medical opinion" that he is not 'Fit for travel' . Of course the SC could have called his bluff, but choose not to. Probably under congress govt. pressure.

I doubt SC could come under cong govt. pressure, but i guess anything is possible. But my point was, even if they went for Christmas they came back. I doubt they can just choose let him remain. They tried this back during Italian elections and went back on it when new govt. came to power. Italians will have to accept what ever the SC says, they don't have a choice....

 

[RedLabel]

I doubt SC could come under cong govt. pressure, but i guess anything is possible. But my point was, even if they went for Christmas they came back. I doubt they can just choose let him remain. They tried this back during Italian elections and went back on it when new govt. came to power. Italians will have to accept what ever the SC says, they don't have a choice....

The matter was submitted to the International tribunal by the EU, not by India. It was done unilaterally so I am sure it is not binding.

Italian Marine Massimiliano Latorre has still not returned to India and has refused to return. So its pretty clear that he have chosen to remain back with full Italian support.

This verdict is only for sergeant Salvatore Girone who continues to be in India.

 

[Gibbs]

Let me ask you a simple question...... Same situation and UPA in power..... What would have been your post?

Excellent question.. People dont realize though all the chest beating and hoop lah that it does'nt matter what government is in power at the center but when it comes to diplomacy and International relations, Jingoism and misplaced self importance are only good on paper and online forums

You Indians need to stop reading TOI junk paper and open your eyes.

If you don't have the balls and want to run like a pussy bitch to the UN like we did with Pakistan and China veto us I can only laugh.

You're posts are quite contradictory.. Just saying

 

[Dr Gupta]

Lol , I don't operate on conjectures, but on hard facts.

Read what Hague is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_Court_of_Arbitration

Italy's Foreign Ministry says an international tribunal in The Hague has decided that an Italian marine being held in India in the shooting deaths of two Indian fishermen mistaken for pirates can return home for the duration of arbitration

The conditions of (Girone's) return will be agreed upon by Italy and India," Italy's foreign ministry said in a statement.

In the evening, Italian Foreign Minister Paolo Gentiloni expressed satisfaction.

Girone "won't be back tomorrow, it will take some weeks" for him to set foot in Italy,

Excellent question.. People dont realize though all the chest beating and hoop lah that it does'nt matter what government is in power at the center but when it comes to diplomacy and International relations, Jingoism and misplaced self importance are only good on paper and online forums





You're posts are quite contradictory.. Just saying

There is reason in my madness, many here believe the crap the Indian media tell them heck the shoddy reporting in TOI which gives smiley faces on articles should be a concern for all.

Now what will the conditions be? he will not be allowed to leave Italy he must report on a regular basis to the SC in India? but he will walk free with a smile on his face am I right or wrong? is this the justice you sought?

 

[axisofevil]

UPA could have done more to prevent such incidents from even occurring. .....food for thought. They never publicized the evidence we had in our possession to prove our POV. Why not?


UPA could have made sure these families got paid in the millions not lakhs? Did they? Who let the sailor go back to Italy in the first place and make the issue worse?


The issues with nuclear supplier group and missiles tech access only came after Modi came into office. UPA wasn't doing anything. It had no clue how to handle the issue. Typical of Congress mentality when tough decisions need to be made, they only look out for their longevity and political face, not the nation.



So fk off bootlickers...

 

[xyxmt]

It means the decision went down the international route via the Hague, basically the Italians shot murdered 2 of your countrymen, bent you over put vaseline in your anus and pounded you hard. After they finished they threw money on you and they went home. My question is while you were being anally violated did you scream UN?

If you going to be a bitch the world going to treat you like one, screaming to UN to save me will only make you more of a laughing stock. Either you a man and get shit done or you continue to be a bitch for people to bend you over and probe you.

is that because India agreed to it, had India refused and instead tried in Indian courts if that was an option...dont know much about these law matter just wondering

 

[T90TankGuy]

Do not quote me if you cannot debate in a civil manner......



Have read this before....... Any way leave it...

I can never understand how you have the patience to debate with some here , to them their political and religious affiliations is all than matters , they seldom bring common scene or reason in their debates.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Indian waters are not 'pirate infested waters'.

So it is highly doubtful that the shooting was a 'mistake'. In all probability it was done in arrogance and spite. They need to be punished for this crime. It is as simple as that.

Fishermen's right to fish around large vessels has no bearing on the case.

You have then better change the Wiki entry on this incident, because it does not agree with You.
These waters are considered to be dangerous, due to piracy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enrica_Lexie_case

"The Indian coast forms part of the "High Risk Area" for pirate attacks. On 21 February 2012, the International Maritime Bureau (IMB) reported that a Greek flagged tanker, the Olympic Flair, sailing approximately 2.5 nm from the port of Kochi was attacked on the same day of the Enrica Lexie. The ICC – in a communication to the Italian Navy – confirmed the IMO number of the vessel thereby confirming it was indeed the Olympic Flair."

So if the Wiki entry is correct, the Encrica Lexie had just been informed of pirate attacks
nearby, and any ship which sails within 50 meters will then be suspicious.
That also means that You, like the Marines have made a mistake.
Would You accept public whipping as punishment?
50 lashes seems to be in order...

It is not possible to rule out that in fact it WAS a pirate attack which was stopped by the action of the Marines.
No evidence has been produced to show that it was a pirate attack, but that does not mean
that it is not true.
Just because no weapons have bern found, does not mean that they have not been thrown overboard.

Adopting rules on how to behave, is not a big restriction.
The purpose of the rules are to minimize misunderstandings resulting in deaths.

 

[Nimitam]

You have then better change the Wiki entry on this incident, because it does not agree with You.
These waters are considered to be dangerous, due to piracy.


"The Indian coast forms part of the "High Risk Area" for pirate attacks. On 21 February 2012, the International Maritime Bureau (IMB) reported that a Greek flagged tanker, the Olympic Flair, sailing approximately 2.5 nm from the port of Kochi was attacked on the same day of the Enrica Lexie. The ICC – in a communication to the Italian Navy – confirmed the IMO number of the vessel thereby confirming it was indeed the Olympic Flair."

So if the Wiki entry is correct, the Encrica Lexie had just been informed of pirate attacks
nearby, and any ship which sails within 50 meters will then be suspicious.
That also means that You, like the Marines have made a mistake.
Would You accept public whipping as punishment?
50 lashes seems to be in order...

It is not possible to rule out that in fact it WAS a pirate attack which was stopped by the action of the Marines.
No evidence has been produced to show that it was a pirate attack, but that does not mean
that it is not true.
Just because no weapons have bern found, does not mean that they have not been thrown overboard.

Adopting rules on how to behave, is not a big restriction.
The purpose of the rules are to minimize misunderstandings resulting in deaths.

There is no need to correct Wikipedia since it pro west stand is well established.

Of the two documents that claims Indian coast is part of "high risk area", one is an Italian white paper which was published a good 9 months AFTER the Italians marines shot the Indians as part of the Italian defence of these two marines.

The second paper which claims to be 'Anti piracy chart" has mysteriously DISAPPEARED from the UKHO web site.

Anyone who is even remotely aware of Indian ocean will know that there is NO LANDMASS Near India which can support Piracy. It is IMPOSSIBLE for pirates to operate in this zone. They only exist near Somalia in the middle east and near the south east asian end.

The second claim about "Olympic Flair" is also a bunch of lies and a desperate attempt to spin a defence to cover up the crime.

The report that Olympic Flair sent to the IMO showed that they were at ANCHOR at the Port of Cochin. While at Anchor, About 20 thieves in two boats came up with the ship in the Night and tried to Board in an attempt at theft. The lookout crew spotted the robbers, giving the alarm and called to the crew. The robbers gave up to seeing the crew movement and changed course and ran away.

There have been no injuries, kidnappings, nor there are reports about weapons used to declare them "Pirates". It was just a bunch of unarmed thieves who tried to board at night and steal some cargo while at Port.

Now how about those 50 lashes for you for attempting to spread lies and disinformation ? But I guess White Men get a free pass, be it to shoot Indians or spread lies.


India is not the US, it is pretty damn impossible to get hold of weapons .......... to find a gun in Kerala is impossible. Your pathetic theory is so full of holes at ANY Indian here will find it laughable.


Finally Indian fishermen damn well have the right to fish ANYWHERE in Indian waters. Larger ships can go around our waters if they have an itchy finger. Our Fishermen does not have to move even an inch.

No body is in any doubt about the innocence of those fishermen. Shame on you for even pretending that they were not innocent. Disgusting.